Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis: The Great Slaughter

[Arbedark]

14 minutes ago, Mendi Warrior said:

 

I actually went for 3 boxes of Spartans, 2 of Astartes Support, 2 of Malcadors/Valdors and 1 of Solar Auxilia Support. I don't think it is a "gigantic" order.

 

No, I agree that isn't a huge order, it just wasn't clear from your original post - clearly there's a diffence between ordering 20 boxes of Spartans and not being able to secure them vs a more reasonable number ala your order. 

 

For what it's worth I've ordered 1 of each box from Wayland and haven't had the same message. Order was placed just after 10am on Saturday. 

[Mendi Warrior]

I think 1 box of each will be no problem at all.

 

I got my email confirmation at 11:10 my time (pre-orders open at 11:00 where I live). I actually waited a couple minutes to see if the book would list or not, as it didn't I hit the order button. I know of one other person who got the same notification for the Astartes Support. No idea about the size of his order.

 

Wait & see, not much else to do anyway 

[Pacific81]

On 2/19/2024 at 10:04 AM, StraightSilver said:

I'm actually starting to (cynically) think it's intentional....

I was list building last night now I have 4 Spartans coming (you get 4 in a box). 4 Spartans can hold 20 bases? That's awesome. But, the only way to currently get 20 bases of Terminators is to buy 10 starter sets..... 

Jokes aside (I'm only half joking) it is starting to get frustrating that I simply can't buy any models.......

 

Or what will happen is that people will look elsewhere, either proxy or printed minis.

 

We had someone come into our FLGS and hand out little bagsies of printed terminators from inside his jacket pocket, was actually pretty funny.

[Mendi Warrior]

Lol! After cannabis resin, the new rage is "terminator resin" 

[LameBeard]

1 hour ago, Pacific81 said:

We had someone come into our FLGS and hand out little bagsies of printed terminators from inside his jacket pocket, was actually pretty funny.

Where is this FLGS? Asking for a friend …

[Mandragola]

On 2/19/2024 at 10:04 AM, StraightSilver said:

I'm actually starting to (cynically) think it's intentional....

I was list building last night now I have 4 Spartans coming (you get 4 in a box). 4 Spartans can hold 20 bases? That's awesome. But, the only way to currently get 20 bases of Terminators is to buy 10 starter sets..... 

Jokes aside (I'm only half joking) it is starting to get frustrating that I simply can't buy any models.......

Minor point but Spartans can only hold 2 bases of terminators each, as termies are bulky. Your four Spartans can carry up to 8 bases of them. You get 6 termies per sprue (maddeningly) and so you'd need 7 sprues worth.

 

Whether this is actually worth the points is a whole nother question. You're paying 160 points for 2 Spartans to carry a 50 point terminator detachment. You could buy a 150 point Thunderhawk that could carry twice as many of them, if you wanted.

[DuskRaider]

19 minutes ago, Mandragola said:

Minor point but Spartans can only hold 2 bases of terminators each, as termies are bulky. Your four Spartans can carry up to 8 bases of them. You get 6 termies per sprue (maddeningly) and so you'd need 7 sprues worth.

 

Whether this is actually worth the points is a whole nother question. You're paying 160 points for 2 Spartans to carry a 50 point terminator detachment. You could buy a 150 point Thunderhawk that could carry twice as many of them, if you wanted.

I thought that the Spartan ignored Bulky for the purposes of transporting Terminators? Maybe I read it wrong but I was also under the impression that it could hold 4 Terminators…

[SkimaskMohawk]

10 minutes ago, DuskRaider said:

I thought that the Spartan ignored Bulky for the purposes of transporting Terminators? Maybe I read it wrong but I was also under the impression that it could hold 4 Terminators…

 

You need large assault transport or whatever it's called to ignore bulky; the thing the thunderhawk has.

 

It's kinda the issue with eagles as well, you pay a lot of points to get an assault vehicle, but you can only put in 2 bases of marine units you actually want to assault with.

 

But that's a marine model issue since, hilariously enough, you can get ogryns in eagles and hawks (if you give up a turn or so) and take full advantage of the space.

 

 

[Matcap86]

5 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

You need large assault transport or whatever it's called to ignore bulky; the thing the thunderhawk has.

 

It's kinda the issue with eagles as well, you pay a lot of points to get an assault vehicle, but you can only put in 2 bases of marine units you actually want to assault with.

 

But that's a marine model issue since, hilariously enough, you can get ogryns in eagles and hawks (if you give up a turn or so) and take full advantage of the space.

 

 

 

Might be a better situation when/if we get units like Catulan Reavers or despoilers and the likes. 

[Marshal Rohr]

1 minute ago, Matcap86 said:

 

Might be a better situation when/if we get units like Catulan Reavers or despoilers and the likes. 

As Legiones is battalion/regiment sized formations, players shouldn’t be trying to do an air assault directly onto an enemy anyways.  

[SkimaskMohawk]

And yet, aerial assault and mass planes in general are extremely strong....

 

Like it's only the storm eagle that's a lack luster flying transport. The rest are great.

[Black Cohort]

32 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

As Legiones is battalion/regiment sized formations, players shouldn’t be trying to do an air assault directly onto an enemy anyways.  

 

Your whole force is a battalion, each formation is at best at company.

[Marshal Rohr]

25 minutes ago, Black Cohort said:

 

Your whole force is a battalion, each formation is at best at company.

There’s a minimum of three demi-companies in a single space marine company. Each formation is whatever the equivalent of a platoon is. The Legion TO&E is in the main rulebook. 

[Black Cohort]

13 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

There’s a minimum of three demi-companies in a single space marine company. Each formation is whatever the equivalent of a platoon is. The Legion TO&E is in the main rulebook. 

 

The way formations are set up is weird, Demi-companies should be platoons and I would argue that an MSU demi-company is a platoon (commander + 3 large squads).  Even just maxing the compulsory detachments in a demi-company gives you 160 marines or 120 marines and 8 dreadnoughts.  If you take every possible optional detachment you are looking at somewhere around another 140 marines, 8 dreadnoughts, 14-20 tanks (with land raider transports + either battle or heavy tanks) + a vanguard choice, either light armour or fliers.

 

That is somewhere in the realm of 250-300 marines on foot, ~25 armoured assets between tanks and dreadnoughts with a few other support options.  In modern terms that is a Infantry battalion reinforced with an overstrength armoured company.  In an Astartes legion that is still an overstrength company.

[Marshal Rohr]

Here was the math I worked out using the TO&E

Legion Line Company: 3x Legion Demi-Company

Legion Demi-Company: Command Base and 3 Tactical Detachments

Tactical Detachment: 4x Tactical Bases and 2x Plasma Gun Bases

 

We don’t have a solid idea of the veteran and heavy support companies yet, but you can build the TO&E and you can build the oversized companies for legions like the Sons of Horus. My larger point is in a game that is designed at the battalion/regimental level using infantry mounted in gunships like a cavalry charge isn’t working well because it doesn’t work well. There was a pretty gruesome example of why you don’t do it in February ‘22. The big space ship with a Titan laser and special rule to deploy the infantry wearing heavy armor that can work in a plasma reactor being good at it is an edge case and it’s good the game makes that an outlier. 

[Noserenda]

Yeah... Direct air assaults are right on brief for Space marines, they arent exactly sensible :D 

Their To&E's are a bit opaque too, the Principia bellicosa ones in the 28mm books were noted as being largely abandoned as each Legion spread out and then each Primarch put their own stamp on things, then the Epic rulebook comes with a very slightly altered version marked as "notionally late crusade" (But completely ignores all the non infantry company types in Epic that might have been informative) and the formations themselves are both hugely flexible in size and oddly inflexible in content in places (Like not being able to field a company of the same pattern tanks, presumably to stress out techmarines and logisticians) to the extent that all the guidance they essentially offer is "Do what you think is cool" which is both excellent and deeply frustrating lol

[DuskRaider]

2 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

You need large assault transport or whatever it's called to ignore bulky; the thing the thunderhawk has.

 

It's kinda the issue with eagles as well, you pay a lot of points to get an assault vehicle, but you can only put in 2 bases of marine units you actually want to assault with.

 

But that's a marine model issue since, hilariously enough, you can get ogryns in eagles and hawks (if you give up a turn or so) and take full advantage of the space.

 

 

Wow… thanks for nothing, GW. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's funny that despite a claim of air cav not working well in LI that it...does.

 

Of the three flying transports, only the eagle is iffy, and only because the hawk exists at its price point and lets you jam assault marines and terminators in turn 1 much more efficiently. But you can still do a whole whack of tacs right into combat on turn 1, and unless your opponent is running mono-ogryns or knights, it'll be impactful. You'll absolutely be able to snipe tank squadrons, rapiers, and the super dumb artillery. 

 

Air cav is a fully functional strategy. The storm eagle is just outclassed in its job. 

 

And the Spartans are also outclassed in that same job, by the same unit.

 

[LameBeard]

Meanwhile, look what my eBay feed is telling me is a “great price”!

How many do I get in the box? Still technically cheaper per model than the £145 Forgeworld model in 28mm scale?

[Robbienw]

3 minutes ago, LameBeard said:

Meanwhile, look what my eBay feed is telling me is a “great price”!

How many do I get in the box? Still technically cheaper per model than the £145 Forgeworld model in 28mm scale?

Why so much?!

 

GW are obviously going to re-release them in LI packaging relatively soon, it’s not like they will be oop.  

[LameBeard]

10 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

Why so much?!

 

GW are obviously going to re-release them in LI packaging relatively soon, it’s not like they will be oop.  

Either the eBay algorithm has confused itself, or (given it’s the only one listed), some people desperate to win that event they’ve signed up for?

 

Interestingly the same feed suggests a slightly cheaper listing in the US and slightly cheaper again listing in Canada. The @SkimaskMohawk effect having a small negative influence on the price in his neighbourhood?

Edited February 20 by LameBeard

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

5 hours ago, DuskRaider said:

I thought that the Spartan ignored Bulky for the purposes of transporting Terminators? Maybe I read it wrong but I was also under the impression that it could hold 4 Terminators…

Spartans in HH 2.0 let you transport a death star of ten terminators and their Legion daddy.

[Matcap86]

1 hour ago, Robbienw said:

Why so much?!

 

GW are obviously going to re-release them in LI packaging relatively soon, it’s not like they will be oop.  

 

Anything out of stock from GW instantly gets put up for double/triple/quadruple the price on ebay looking for suckers willing to pay. It's really not an accurate measurement of worth.

[Noserenda]

Yeah you have to check the sold listings really, but i have no faith in GW hobbyists to not support scalpers these days...

I do hope they finish changing the boxes on the still missing AI/T sometime "soon" but im not particularly confident as we havent even had the rest of the core box stuff out, roll on Q2 i guess? 

 

[DuskRaider]

37 minutes ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

Spartans in HH 2.0 let you transport a death star of ten terminators and their Legion daddy.

I’m pretty sure that in HHv1.0 you could transport 10 Terminators or 20 Marines in a Spartan… it’s admittedly been quite some time since I’ve last played, but I’m pretty sure that’s why I had 4 Spartans in my Pride of the Legion list.