Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis: The Great Slaughter

[Interrogator Stobz]

They sure have grossly underestimated the popularity of this release.

I can't get the units I need to play the basics atm.

Let's live in naive hope that this second wave also addresses the first wave deficiencies. 

Because this second wave looks stellar.

[SkimaskMohawk]

4 hours ago, DuskRaider said:

I really hope Knights become their own faction with full rules. They can already take Objectives (albeit not as well as Infantry) so it seems like they could be viable. They’ll need actual Banner and Lance rules though… 3 Knights do not a Banner make. 

 

Well technically, every unit but flyers can take objectives, your opponent just can't have any units close by (which is when tactical strength comes into play). 

 

I don't think they'd need to make new rules for banner, as it's fine for unit of knights, especially as you could take units of 2 for a number of chassis in AT, but maybe split armigers off into their own thing. The Lance would need some retooling to be an actual formation with options for each banner, but could otherwise keep its independent rule.

 

The biggest issue though is that knights are really kept in check by their ally-ism right now. An acastus is (still) really good. Lancers are really good. Questoris are really good. Even thermal spear armigers are really good. Being given broad access to those units, without a formation and 30% point cap, can easily hit a critical mass against traditional lists. 

[vadersson]

You said it.  My FLGS still has not gotten my first wave stuff.  I did order later, like Dec 2nd, but they have been bugging their suppler to actually get it.  I was supposed to be in by now, but still nothing.  I need my second starter!  (And Kratos, and Rhinos, and…)

[DuskRaider]

Just now, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Well technically, every unit but flyers can take objectives, your opponent just can't have any units close by (which is when tactical strength comes into play). 

 

I don't think they'd need to make new rules for banner, as it's fine for unit of knights, especially as you could take units of 2 for a number of chassis in AT, but maybe split armigers off into their own thing. The Lance would need some retooling to be an actual formation with options for each banner, but could otherwise keep its independent rule.

 

The biggest issue though is that knights are really kept in check by their ally-ism right now. An acastus is (still) really good. Lancers are really good. Questoris are really good. Even thermal spear armigers are really good. Being given broad access to those units, without a formation and 30% point cap, can easily hit a critical mass against traditional lists. 

Yeah, I’m wondering how they’ll handle it or if they’ll even bother at all and just keep it to the Titandeath specific scenarios. 
 

Knights feel as though they don’t really belong anywhere at this point in time. They’re basically cannon fodder in Titanicus to the point that the vast majority of their weapons are useless against Titans and it seems they’re too much for Imperialis, at least as a dedicated faction. It’s a bummer because I think a full Household would look awesome on the table battling against enemy armor and their weapons seem more geared towards that role. 

[MithrilForge]

all I have seen so far of LI at my FLGS is a box of Rhino's ... and that's it ... 

 

M 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

14 hours ago, Xenith said:

Wonder what on earth the Titan v Titan game mode will look like. Presumably just titans but using LI rules. Begging the question, why not just play AT?

 

AT games over a certain size can be unwieldy, (terminal space can become an issue for one thing) I see this as perhaps being like Apocalypse for AT, a streamlined ruleset for bigger battles.

 

Could be useful for TOC titan walks too.

[Xenith]

17 hours ago, Black Cohort said:

Will the core game stuff be back in stock by then?  Basically anyone who wasn't sitting there waiting to pre-order hasn't gotten anything; and if more people can't buy the basics the game will die on the vine.

 

The game can't be simultaneously sold out, yet have no one with a copy - A lot of people have LI in their hands, but I empathise if only one r two in your group managed to get one - maybe play games with them?

 

Undoubtedly a success from GW's viewpoint, but still a miss on not getting the restock back in. As we've seen they already had issues - their restock for this, primarily the print slot booked for the restock, probably went on the last minute reprint of the book meaning they have to scramble to try nd find another slot to get the next batch printed.

 

When you remember that the original game was supposed to be released in what, August 2023, having this book released now, 5-6 months after the original release date, makes some sense, as opposed to now, a month after initial release. 

[Burni]

SG's original cadence for games like AT and AI was a book & associate kits release every quarter. I wonder if that's still the case. We're still missing enough Legion stuff that it could easily fill another set of releases in the spring.

[BolterZorro]

GW tries to get back to the original schedule. I think they are now. Except for some releases and stock (because they underestimated the success of LI). I hope that the stock problems won't kill the game in the egg. The hype seems still high. 

[Matcap86]

It seems like a recurring problem with GW consistently underestimating (or being unable to cope with) demand for new or revamped products. HH 2.0 suffered from this, LI does still suffer from this. Old World will probably also be a mess with what I've been hearing on stock allocations. 

[Astartes Consul]

Someone needs to feed some more servo skulls into the Warehouse Machine Spirit  Artificial Intelligence, or whatever the new system is supposed to have.

[Xenith]

1 hour ago, Matcap86 said:

It seems like a recurring problem with GW consistently underestimating (or being unable to cope with) demand for new or revamped products. HH 2.0 suffered from this, LI does still suffer from this. Old World will probably also be a mess with what I've been hearing on stock allocations. 

 

They are getting better with each iteration, but they do still seem surprised at the popularity of stuff. ToW will be interesting, as they dleted the entire game previously due to poor sales. I feel they will be more conservative with it than 40k. However back then they didn't have the marketing team and hype train that they do now.

[Marshal Rohr]

Expecting any kind of predictable scheduling from the managerial goblins running operations at GW is a waste of time. They are releasing a supplement for a game you cannot buy kits for because they sold out. 

[Redcomet]

8 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Expecting any kind of predictable scheduling from the managerial goblins running operations at GW is a waste of time. They are releasing a supplement for a game you cannot buy kits for because they sold out. 

A solid portion of the range is in stock on the gw website. 
Not the basic box today, but it was in stock yesterday. 

[Spazmolytic]

This may have been covered elsewhere & I'm not sure if the info is even readily available but does GW ever say how many units they have produced for any said game system? Maybe to be more accurate any Specialist Game systems? I ask mainly because the closest GW store to me only ordered 5 copies of LI, sold out quickly, is not restocking because you can order on demand and apparently AT/LI is not really popular around that store ( I know this well after trying to get AT games going there with very little response).  However all of the other hobby stores have yet to receive any orders for either LI or AT. 

[Marshal Rohr]

4 minutes ago, Spazmolytic said:

This may have been covered elsewhere & I'm not sure if the info is even readily available but does GW ever say how many units they have produced for any said game system? Maybe to be more accurate any Specialist Game systems? I ask mainly because the closest GW store to me only ordered 5 copies of LI, sold out quickly, is not restocking because you can order on demand and apparently AT/LI is not really popular around that store ( I know this well after trying to get AT games going there with very little response).  However all of the other hobby stores have yet to receive any orders for either LI or AT. 

So they sold out everything they bought and then determined it wasn’t popular? Absolute genius. 

[ZeroWolf]

50 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

So they sold out everything they bought and then determined it wasn’t popular? Absolute genius. 

Depends how many people actually bought it. Let's face it, it could be two people who bought the five copies (2 each, share the last). What would really determine demand for them is if they had a waiting list or had constant questioning on when they would restock.

[Nagashsnee]

4 minutes ago, ZeroWolf said:

Depends how many people actually bought it. Let's face it, it could be two people who bought the five copies (2 each, share the last). What would really determine demand for them is if they had a waiting list or had constant questioning on when they would restock.

Well thats easy, go on places like ebay or trading groups on fb, and look at prices/demand. Look at places like this thread and see how many people remark about not being able to get what they wanted. When GW does restock how quickly does it go back out of stock? 

 

LI is 100% a sellers market BECAUSE the demand is there. 

Edited January 5 by Nagashsnee

[Noserenda]

I think its notable that the rulebook second hand cost has stayed £10 higher than its peers typically go for, i guess because demand is higher (Creeping down now though)  

[DuskRaider]

2 hours ago, Redcomet said:

A solid portion of the range is in stock on the gw website. 
Not the basic box today, but it was in stock yesterday. 

The only thing I see for sale in the US is the Starter Box, Solar Auxilia Infantry and the tiles. They haven’t had stock for a while now. 

[Dark Shepherd]

2 hours ago, Spazmolytic said:

This may have been covered elsewhere & I'm not sure if the info is even readily available but does GW ever say how many units they have produced for any said game system? Maybe to be more accurate any Specialist Game systems? I ask mainly because the closest GW store to me only ordered 5 copies of LI, sold out quickly, is not restocking because you can order on demand and apparently AT/LI is not really popular around that store ( I know this well after trying to get AT games going there with very little response).  However all of the other hobby stores have yet to receive any orders for either LI or AT. 

Cant remember the source, except that it was reliable, but the figure quoted was 25k units for a specialist game box (launch/big box) eg Blood Bowl, Kill Team

 

This might be a fever dream but did the painting phase or someone say that the diff arms of GW SG, 40k etc have to jostle/compete for production capacity?

[Xenith]

7 minutes ago, Dark Shepherd said:

This might be a fever dream but did the painting phase or someone say that the diff arms of GW SG, 40k etc have to jostle/compete for production capacity?

 

Probably, and that is absolutely standard practice for any business with limited resources, even down to infinite resources such as social media posting slots. 

[Captain Idaho]

Talking indiscriminately to no one bar a wandering GW executive, well, I can't accept that GW doesn't have dominance of the market that other wargaming companies only dream of, so the idea they're a business with limited resources only puts the blame squarely on their shoulders. They should be managing all this, especially if other wargaming institutions can do it.

 

I do remember talk of Nottingham Council disallowing construction of additional Production facilities, I believe even going bankrupt due to driving businesses out, but England isn't that big. Go to another town or city or whatever.

 

I live in an area surrounded by businesses that have their HQs or subsidiaries or are just split all over the country. The amount of Londoners visiting the local area or people from my town who go to London is also immense.

 

A dominant business like GW can and should be able to find production facilities after any short term blip that may provide a challenge. It's their reason for existence after all.

 

The lack of availability to purchase in Legions Imperialis is my main concern. I otherwise love the game and miniatures. Building micromachines then going to wad with them is second to none in my personal preferences, after all.

 

I do hope it'll not hurt the game's long term viability as it is a game come true for me.

Edited January 5 by Captain Idaho
Words, words for the word God.

[Redcomet]

27 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Talking indiscriminately to no one bar a wandering GW executive, well, I can't accept that GW doesn't have dominance of the market that other wargaming companies only dream of, so the idea they're a business with limited resources only puts the blame squarely on their shoulders. They should be managing all this, especially if other wargaming institutions can do it.

 

I do remember talk of Nottingham Council disallowing construction of additional Production facilities, I believe even going bankrupt due to driving businesses out, but England isn't that big. Go to another town or city or whatever.

 

I live in an area surrounded by businesses that have their HQs or subsidiaries or are just split all over the country. The amount of Londoners visiting the local area or people from my town who go to London is also immense.

 

A dominant business like GW can and should be able to find production facilities after any short term blip that may provide a challenge. It's their reason for existence after all.

 

The lack of availability to purchase in Legions Imperialis is my main concern. I otherwise love the game and miniatures. Building micromachines then going to wad with them is second to none in my personal preferences, after all.

 

I do hope it'll not hurt the game's long term viability as it is a game come true for me.

How do you manage your way out of sudden explosive growth, that meant demand outstripped your supply. Where said growth had the potential to go away once the world returned to normal. In a world where supply chains have been disrupted time and time again. And doing it without over spending and expanding, so that the company might collapse if there was a sudden economic downturn. AND in a company that for very good reasons is risk adverse? 
 

Add to that having local infrastructure putting a limit on further expansion.

 

Figure that out without the benefit of knowing the future, 20/20 hindsight, and you might be the single greatest armchair CEO, and should be running companies that would make Amazon look like a bakesale.

[Captain Idaho]

GW were going to build a factory and couldn't in Nottingham. They had the investment ready to go but Nottingham Council wouldn't allow it.

 

So this doesn't appear to have anything to do with their company struggling after their explosive growth.

 

And besides, growth and record profits every year should mean they're in a better place to invest for the future.

 

Sure I see elements that might be out of their control, like global shipping issues and certain resource supply concerns.

 

However, building a factory someone else in the UK would have resolved a lot of these issues or lessened their impact. Instead of just putting your hands up and saying "we can't build a factory because the council said no" they should have thought about Manchester. Or Birmingham. Or anywhere in the UK really.

Edited January 5 by Captain Idaho