Combat Patrol New Chaos Lord & Chaos Lord with Jump Pack (also battleforce sets)

[tzeentch9]

25 minutes ago, Garrac said:

So we got:

 

1) Deceptors (infiltration, Alpha Legion)

2) Renegade Raiders (full melee, Red Corsairs)

3) Chaos Cult (horde, Lost & Damned)

4) Pactbound Zealots (vainilla one, Word Bearers)

5) Veterans of the Long War (elite guys, Black Legion)

6) Fell-hammer siege host (siege guys, Iron Warriors)

7) Dread Talons (jump-pack guys, Night Lords)

8) Soulforged Warpack (followers of vashtorr)

 

Alltho, all of these are all generic. You could 100% totally play Chaos Cult as a Word Bearers army!

 

Expect on all of this detachments a minimum of 1-2 army rules, 0-1 keyword changes, 4 enhancements, and 6-8 stratagems

Chaos cult is the word bearers one, the original was black legion, and is now the vanilla one

[Garrac]

6 minutes ago, tzeentch9 said:

Chaos cult is the word bearers one, the original was black legion, and is now the vanilla one

Chaos Cult was commented to be the cultist/traitor guardsmen horde-like, and the index one, for Word Bearers.

 

Alltho, again, what I wrote are guidline. Feel free to run a mortals army with the Deceptors detachment!

 

Btw, just noticed that none of these detachments exactly fits with Fabius. Weird.

Edited May 7 by Garrac

[tzeentch9]

1 minute ago, Garrac said:

Chaos Cult was commented to be the cultist/traitor guardsmen horde-like, and the index one, for Word Bearers.

 

Alltho, again, what I wrote are guidline. Feel free to run a mortals army with the Deceptors detachment!

Cultist one has cultists and dark apostle boosts. Generic one has nothing which says word bearers and currently boosts abaddon by quite a bit.

[jaxom]

I just want to know what the detachment rule for Veterans of the Long War is going to be.

[MadEdric]

Soulforged looks like what I want. I love my Deamon Engines.

[crimsondave]

12 minutes ago, Garrac said:

Chaos Cult was commented to be the cultist/traitor guardsmen horde-like, and the index one, for Word Bearers.

 

Alltho, again, what I wrote are guidline. Feel free to run a mortals army with the Deceptors detachment!

 

Btw, just noticed that none of these detachments exactly fits with Fabius. Weird.

That is weird about Fabulous Bill.  Could his detachment be with EC?  I wouldn’t think so since he’s not in the index for EC.

[Garrac]

10 minutes ago, tzeentch9 said:

Cultist one has cultists and dark apostle boosts. Generic one has nothing which says word bearers and currently boosts abaddon by quite a bit.

Apart from, again, the Adepticon wording on the matter, dark apostle is the only Heretic Astartes unit without the DAMNED keyword that will get sinergies on the detachment because he's the only astartes that can join cultist units. Doubting a detachment named Pactbound Zealots won't have any sinergies with dark apostles as well. But again, feel free to use it, tho!

[Doctor Perils]

52 minutes ago, Garrac said:

Had a discussion on discord last day with a guy all angry arguing "No, Night Lords aren't just jump-pack guys" and my answer was like "Then pick another detachment, all of them are generic now, lol"

 

Expect on each detachment 1-2 army rules, 0-1 keyword changes, 4 enhancements, and 6-8 stratagems

Thank you! It sometimes feels like we're talking to a brick wall doesn't it? ^^'

I could easily see Night Lords run as Deceptors (infiltration could work for the terror troops aspect imo), or even simply as Veterans of the Long War

 

40 minutes ago, tzeentch9 said:

Chaos cult is the word bearers one, the original was black legion, and is now the vanilla one

Yeah as Garrac said, the original has been renamed to Pactbound Zealots - that name and the use of Chaos Marks screams Word Bearers, both elements being far more core to their identity than for the Black Legion. But again, Black Legion and Word Bearers can easily run either force, and all the others besides

[tzeentch9]

53 minutes ago, Doctor Perils said:

Thank you! It sometimes feels like we're talking to a brick wall doesn't it? ^^'

I could easily see Night Lords run as Deceptors (infiltration could work for the terror troops aspect imo), or even simply as Veterans of the Long War

 

Yeah as Garrac said, the original has been renamed to Pactbound Zealots - that name and the use of Chaos Marks screams Word Bearers, both elements being far more core to their identity than for the Black Legion. But again, Black Legion and Word Bearers can easily run either force, and all the others besides

Well no, all the legions use pacts, even iron warriors and night lords in the fluff. Having something that can only be given to dark apostles and boosts cultists is word bearers. 

[Kaiju Soze]

I thought the reference to Tzeentch units in the Let the Galaxy Burn stratagem meant that the Veterans of... detachment used Marks of Chaos. Then I realised it just meant you can't use it to get 60 hits of Rubrics.

[Lord Abaia]

27 minutes ago, Kaiju Soze said:

I thought the reference to Tzeentch units in the Let the Galaxy Burn stratagem meant that the Veterans of... detachment used Marks of Chaos. Then I realised it just meant you can't use it to get 60 hits of Rubrics.

This also works with Abbadon losing the god-specific keywords. It would be silly if you couldn't "let the galaxy burn" with him and his entourage terminator unit.

 

I'm curious if the Renegade Raiders detachment, while seemingly melee focused, will actually be a good way to use bolter Legionaries. Assault bolters + plasma guns with an AP bonus to soften up objective holders while you rush to close in to melee range to take advantage of re-rolling 1s to wound and getting +1 AP. It's probably still more efficient to just build chainsword guys, but at least my monopose bolter guys from Shadowspear won't be as bad.

[Zelse]

41 minutes ago, tzeentch9 said:

Well no, all the legions use pacts, even iron warriors and night lords in the fluff. Having something that can only be given to dark apostles and boosts cultists is word bearers. 

 

Seems like a case to me where both are applicable. Word Bearers are the most cultist-focused, but are also the most pact-focused so the pact-focused detachment is pretty undeniably theirs too.

[DemonGSides]

I think getting really hung up on which legion each detatchment is supposed to 'embody' is exactly the sort of thing they were trying to stay away from by making them non-legion designated.

[Prot]

Does anyone know how long it will take them to release the Lords separately? I'm just thinking I have everything in those boxes.

Edited May 7 by Prot

[DemonGSides]

36 minutes ago, Prot said:

I think we just have to look at marines for the easy answer: Anyone can be anything for a day. The choice from there is: do you want to be sneaky? Shooty? Elite heavy? Hordish? Or stabby? 

 

Beyond marines, I imagine there will be a Despoiler band. A daemonic band, and psyker band? 

 

But much like the marines, I imagine what really will differentiate one Legion from the other will ultimately come down to your Characters. 

 

I really do miss the old days for Legion creation, but I realize why they had to do away with it too.

It's so much better now.  There's no obvious winner Legion that everyone SHOULD be building towards; instead a playstyle may be better, but all the effort putting into making the models your own (You know, sourcing, building, kitbashing, painting your models) is no longer immediately vaporized because some rules writer happens to like Night Lords more than Word Bearers; sure, the detatchment for Night Lords might be better, but your guys are no longer just "Red Night Lords", they're your guys with some rules that make sense for how you want to play them; maybe the detatchment for "Night Lords" gives Stealth; in your own headcannon, that Stealth could be reflector cloaks, it could be hiding within the shadows due to warp, it could just be properly timed and placed ambushers.  It all 'works' within the rules, without forcing weird hobby or lore decisions to make stuff work.

I really prefer it.  If they'd start putting more emphasis on hobby stuff in codexes, it'd be a perfect 1-2 combo for getting that feeling of "Your guys" while also having a chance to run a build that isn't just automatically objectively wrong because you put the wrong color paint on your guys.

[ashc]

It could be anything from 1-6 months after release based on previous trends Prot - 2-3 months seems a usual average.

 

I'm quite excited to see more from the codex, I really like what has been previewed here.

 

DemonGSides, I completely agree. Means any legion or renegade can play however the player wants them to play. 

Edited May 7 by ashc

[LSM]

3 hours ago, crimsondave said:

That is weird about Fabulous Bill.  Could his detachment be with EC?  I wouldn’t think so since he’s not in the index for EC.

 

Bile has (historically) always been an Undivided (or Unmarked) character, so he does fit most naturally in C:CSM. (Compared to "the Slaanesh worshippers army".) But yeah, none of the eight seem particularly good for representing one of his forces. I guess the narrative could be more that he's second fiddle in someone else's army, which is also historically a role he played.

 

//

 

4 hours ago, Garrac said:

Had a discussion on discord last day with a guy all angry arguing "No, Night Lords aren't just jump-pack guys" and my answer was like "Then pick another detachment, all of them are generic now, lol"

 

Expect on each detachment 1-2 army rules, 0-1 keyword changes, 4 enhancements, and 6-8 stratagems

 

 

*Shakes stick at clouds* Back in my day, Raptors were their own weird cult, and those Night Lord gangsters liked tooting around on their motorcycles. Red Corsairs, you say? Those young fellas who still wore their loyalist colours, with big red X's crossing out the Chapter symbol? Poppycock.

[Lord Marshal]

4 hours ago, tzeentch9 said:

Cultist one has cultists and dark apostle boosts. Generic one has nothing which says word bearers and currently boosts abaddon by quite a bit.

 

For what it's worth they said in the Adepticon interview that Slaves To Darkness was/is the Word Bearers themed one. The rename to Pactbound Zealots makes it even more evident imo (not that it really matters with how they're deliberately pushing anyone being able to use any of them, which I still like).

 

Edited May 7 by Lord Marshal

[sitnam]

I think it is most likely that Biles Creations aren’t really a supported subfaction anymore beyond just taking Bile and whatever boons he confers

[Garrac]

Ok, so us traitor guard fans on the discord server read this phrase for the Chaos Cult detachment:

 

Quote

"Each time a DAMNED unit with the Dark Pacts ability"

 

And this got us thinking, why would they word it this way? Why specify DAMNED units with the Dark Pacts ability? Will this make some units on Chaos Cults not have the army rule?

 

So, my 2 crazy bonkers baloonies theories on this:

 

1) 1 or more (or all) DAMNED units are losing Dark Pacts

 

I see 1 reason against it, and two in favour. FIRST, there's precedent for units in an army not having the army rule (kroot, im looking at you). But, TWO, you'd have a partial/entire army not able to run the detachment rule! That's just dumb. But, THIRD, GW is able to do dumb things

 

2) The Chaos Cult detachment is getting allies from another codex. Be it Astra Militarum stuff, be it god-cultists (tzaangors, poxwalkers, jakhals)

 

Why not demons or Chaos Knights? Because the phrase indicates DAMNED units, so, a change of keyword ala Brood Brothers way. Counterpoint: I have to fight the hopium with all my strength, this can't be posible because no way i'm that lucky in life with anything. Won't expect it.

 

Weird thing is, only one of these can be true. Alltho, there's allways 3) it's just a typo/specific wording, it means nothing, stop dreaming with leman russes Garrac. no way Im that lucky. Im surely missing something here.

Edited May 7 by Garrac

[Noserenda]

I suspect Creations of bile was just a bit too niche for them even when they stretched to 8 detachments, its one very specific warband which opens the door to all the other warbands and smaller chaos marine factions like fallen etc to have them on the list.

 

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

One cool thing about all this new stuff is that you can build a Black Legion army for each of their warbands and those subfactions can all fight different (based on their actual lore) because you chose different Detachments.

[Tokugawa]

"We’ve all been there. Luckily, the Chaos Cult Detachment has plenty of tools for turning weedy devotees into certified Khorne-pleasers. Their Detachment rule allows your DAMNED units to show their Desperate Devotion by racing into battle. It’s perfect for getting your relatively fragile hordes into close combat, where they can tie up enemy firepower… and as we all know, a few dead mortals along the way is an easy price to pay for victory."

 

Didn't mention a single word about taking IG units. You shouldn't set the hope high.

[Garrac]

2 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

"We’ve all been there. Luckily, the Chaos Cult Detachment has plenty of tools for turning weedy devotees into certified Khorne-pleasers. Their Detachment rule allows your DAMNED units to show their Desperate Devotion by racing into battle. It’s perfect for getting your relatively fragile hordes into close combat, where they can tie up enemy firepower… and as we all know, a few dead mortals along the way is an easy price to pay for victory."

 

Didn't mention a single word about taking IG units. You shouldn't set the hope high.

Tbf, that also doesnt apply to traitor guardsmen, that are confirmed to remain on the codex from the Adepticon interview. They worded "You'll be able to field a cultist horde. And traitor guardsmen too!"

 

Won't hope, tho, don't worry. It's not something I'm actually expecting.

Edited May 8 by Garrac

[TrawlingCleaner]

Some really cool rules showcased here, although the Accused Cultists have me a little nervous