Codex: Space Marines | Multi-Part Intercessor & Vanguard Vet Teaser | Legends Culling

[Blindhamster]

23 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Just to clarify, the new 11th edition BA detachment only works with BA characters?

So it would need the specific BA Captain that can't take a Bolt Rifle/Shield/Plasma Pistol? 
At least the Inferno Pistol is now pretty darn good.

I prefer the classic loadout of power sword, bolter and bolt pistol. It annoys me that the rules are so obtuse that a weapon choice locks out a detachment. But again, I think the detachment concept is rubbish anyway.

[Northern Walker]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

 

This is where it gets weird. In the 10th edition Space Wolves codex, GW made a distinction between Space Wolves and SPACE WOLVES. There were certain Enhancements and Strats that only applied to the units in the SW Codex and not to units from the main SM codex that were just included in the army.

 

This meant that Grey Hunters were Space Wolves and also SPACE WOLVES. But Intercessors were Space Wolves but not SPACE WOLVES. Clear? 

 

We haven't seen the actual Detachment yet but the review on TTT said BLOOD ANGELS CHARACTER which implies that the same restriction applies. Whether this is intentional or even correct is not clear at this stage but if generic SM Characters do not count for unlocking the Detachment ability then frankly Angelic Inheritors is dead in the water.

This was so frustrating for trying to build casual lists. Couldn't have a Rune Priest without using Njall's rules, the whole terminator thing where it was logan and arjac or nothing.

Someone needs to give the rules people at GW a good shake. Or just make a subset of rules for tournament people and let everyone else have a good time.

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, Northern Walker said:

This was so frustrating for trying to build casual lists. Couldn't have a Rune Priest without using Njall's rules, the whole terminator thing where it was logan and arjac or nothing.

Someone needs to give the rules people at GW a good shake. Or just make a subset of rules for tournament people and let everyone else have a good time.

 

I don't think this really has anything to do with a Tournament v Casual thing, and continuously hammering that drum just does a disservice to both sides; you're letting the 'culture war' win when the real enemy is just bad rules in general.

Neither side of the coin is happy with this (Nor were either side happy when it was the SW with their update), and it's obviously not a balancing thing, it's just ineptness or laziness, whichever is your personal belief.  Tournament players aren't secretly rejoicing or deriding these rules any more than the casual player is; I don't think out of the four BA players here discussing this specific situation, any of us are happy, and I think all of us play varying amounts.  Not an all encompassing sample size, of course, but I think it's VERY obvious the detatchments are mostly big fails, the datasheets run from pretty alright (Dante is legit, so is Mephiston (If a bit expensive at the currently expected price), and even Lemartes is pretty good) to downright "The Godfather" levels of 'Look at how they massacred my boy!' (RIP Sanguinary Priest, you were awesome for like a VERY SHORT period of time after they expanded who you could hang with).  Combined with ANOTHER round of "What can we give our nut-cases to go fight Horus with?" changes, it is not great for anyone, but I do think with some points changing and maybe a few rules edits (Which are easy, considering they're all digital rules for right now), they won't be too bad.

 

I'd rather be a BA right now than a Deathwatch player, so that's at least saying something.  And I still think BA will be a better go to if you are trying to play a custom chapter that likes Jump Pack type units, since they just get so much more access to JP units; just play any of the detatchments out of the core book with the BA units and you'll probably be fine.

Edited 5 hours ago by DemonGSides

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

7 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

just play any of the detatchments out of the core book with your BA units and you'll probably be fine.

fine red Ultramarines with no Red Thirst... Sorry but this is a hill I will continue to fight on. This is my Eternity Gate!

[Northern Walker]

16 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

I don't think this really has anything to do with a Tournament v Casual thing, and continuously hammering that drum just does a disservice to both sides; you're letting the 'culture war' win when the real enemy is just bad rules in general.

Neither side of the coin is happy with this (Nor were either side happy when it was the SW with their update), and it's obviously not a balancing thing, it's just ineptness or laziness, whichever is your personal belief.  Tournament players aren't secretly rejoicing or deriding these rules any more than the casual player is; I don't think out of the four BA players here discussing this specific situation, any of us are happy, and I think all of us play varying amounts.  Not an all encompassing sample size, of course, but I think it's VERY obvious the detatchments are mostly big fails, the datasheets run from pretty alright (Dante is legit, so is Mephiston (If a bit expensive at the currently expected price), and even Lemartes is pretty good) to downright "The Godfather" levels of 'Look at how they massacred my boy!' (RIP Sanguinary Priest, you were awesome for like a VERY SHORT period of time after they expanded who you could hang with).  Combined with ANOTHER round of "What can we give our nut-cases to go fight Horus with?" changes, it is not great for anyone, but I do think with some points changing and maybe a few rules edits (Which are easy, considering they're all digital rules for right now), they won't be too bad.

 

I'd rather be a BA right now than a Deathwatch player, so that's at least saying something.  And I still think BA will be a better go to if you are trying to play a custom chapter that likes Jump Pack type units, since they just get so much more access to JP units; just play any of the detatchments out of the core book with your BA units and you'll probably be fine.

The tournament focus is the reason for particular rules interactions like this. Whether people who are into that like it is honestly irrelevant, it's the proliferation of that style of playing the game that has lead us to this point.

 

[DemonGSides]

17 minutes ago, ChapterMasterGodfrey said:

fine red Ultramarines with no Red Thirst... Sorry but this is a hill I will continue to fight on. This is my Eternity Gate!

 

Right, if you hadn't intentionally snipped off what I was saying, which was "If you're playing a custom JP pack reliant chapter, BA is still a good choice, especially with the core SM detatchemnts."

I would also prefer to have Red Thirst available somewhere.  No need to, quite literally, fall into the infighting I was talking about in that post lmao.

1 minute ago, Northern Walker said:

The tournament focus is the reason for particular rules interactions like this. Whether people who are into that like it is honestly irrelevant, it's the proliferation of that style of playing the game that has lead us to this point.

 

 

Evidence isn't in support of this; DA don't have anything similar and they are a much more 'tournament focused' chapter to play as.

Sorry, I don't buy this.  I think it's just bad rules writing.  Has nothing to do with Tournament v Casual.

[Northern Walker]

18 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Right, if you hadn't intentionally snipped off what I was saying, which was "If you're playing a custom JP pack reliant chapter, BA is still a good choice, especially with the core SM detatchemnts."

I would also prefer to have Red Thirst available somewhere.  No need to, quite literally, fall into the infighting I was talking about in that post lmao.

 

Evidence isn't in support of this; DA don't have anything similar and they are a much more 'tournament focused' chapter to play as.

Sorry, I don't buy this.  I think it's just bad rules writing.  Has nothing to do with Tournament v Casual.

Oh it's absolutely bad rules writing, but their intent is clearly to limit combinations they perceive as abusable for balance reasons. DA just happen to have avoided the worst excesses of this, maybe because all of their special units are Elites or Fast attack (in the old money) and they dont have any generic characters that I can think of.

 

The result is that the rules limit all the frankly sub-optimal stuff people like me want to do. 

[Mogger351]

The lion is course corrected day 1 to 415. Still a bargain imo.

 

Edit: weekend orks landed on a 60.1% w/r, be amazed if marines aren't similar/higher

Edited 3 hours ago by Mogger351

[jaxom]

Any Red Thirst or other Blood Angel ability has to be considered in the context of a Assault Intercessors with easy access to Lance and/or or Lethal Hits 1 or Sustained Hits 1 on top of their unit rule of +1Str and +1AP on the charge. If AP2 is good enough, then a Chaplain giving Lance and using a Sustained Hits 1 strategem on top of 36 Str 6 AP2 D1 plus whatever the Sergeant has is a lot. 

 

From the flipside, the Sanguinary Priest giving +1T is a lot more valuable now than +1AP because +1AP is so easy to get.

[Jukkiz]

GW is seriously bonkers with todays pricings
If armageddon standard and chaplain, with eradicators is 90€ and eradiacators themselves are 51€, then regular chaplain and Standard should cost 19,50€ a piece. But knowing GW they slap in them propably with new box, one option and ask 34€ a piece. 

Also seriously GW, a single sprue from starter box, that builds 3 Eradicators costs 51€?!

Edited 3 hours ago by Jukkiz

[DarkMark]

@Jukkiz38.50€ is my minimum bet. 

[Dudley Nightshade]

2 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

Edit: weekend orks landed on a 60.1% w/r, be amazed if marines aren't similar/higher

 

Might still be too early to hit the panic button. From my own (anecdotal) experience, new codexes change the meta and win at a higher rate for a while, until everyone has a chance to adapt.