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Ok, so you guys have made me want to do a Necromunda gang based on the mutant hunters. :lol: I just wanted to say that I agree with Tiberius when he says he sees these guys like Lotr Rangers. They take what they can from the land, resupplying infrequently. The chapter has given them some support, so maybe they are the closest thing to a formal organization on Loscano Secundus. I see them as, in addition to attacking mutant settlements, ambushing those attacks that are too big for them to deal with alone, harrying the mutants until they can be net with proper force. They would strike fast, then fade into the sand/ash. Another source of inspiration would be the Witch Hunters of Warhammer Fantasy. Do you think maybe the Mutant Hunters would be given some authority,seeing how they have the support of His ANgels, burning those that they deemed as unclean, or to have aided mutants? they may even burn entire settlements. Is this to Redemptionist?

 

Also I see them as being possible couriers for the settlements. They owe no particular settlement affiliation, so they would take contracts from the town governance. I know it has been discussed that there is little communication between settlements, but in times of need they would be used as sort of a pony express.

 

What do you think of the shanty town leaders holding a regular meeting? To discuss any trade agreements, defense, and planned crusades to the Lightside.

 

And another Idea, already discussed with Molotov:

An Alpha level psyker is discovered within one of the settlements, and he reacts violently to the Mutant Hunters claims of abomination. He destroys the settlement, and the Darksiders are unable to stop him/her. The Castigators have to become involved, destroying the witch utterly.

 

 

Just a few ideas that popped up, use them as needed. I hope Ive remembered everything. B)

Edited by ToyShip

Interesting post. Raises a number of issues. You say "taking what they can from the land", which brings up the issues of livestock and agriculture. I had imagined that the planet was very barren, with little in the way of food. The settlers survived by growing what they could. Then Tiberius asked whether these Mutant Hunters would have mounts of some kind. And it made me curious as to what animals were on this planet. I imagine that they could only have existed if the ship that crashed on Losanco Secundus had animals aboard. And I guess they must've done, but I imagine the majority (if not all) would be in the dark-side settlements.

 

The mutant-hunters having mounts would allow them to cross into the light-side far quicker and attack the mutants, as well as being able to get from settlement to settlement pretty quickly. I don't know about the mutants having any official authority, though. I think they'd be deferred to by some, reviled by others. There's the idea that they're somewhat rough, uncouth. Doing a dangerous job.

 

I can see them as carrying out burnings, perhaps. The idea of the settlement being purged by the Castigators is interesting, actually. It brought to my mind the idea of a Mutant Hunter watching as the Castigators assault a settlement on the horizon. It would be interesting for him having to go to a settlement and tell them what happened - how His Angels came down on tongues of fire to purge the unclean.

 

Mhmm, definite food for thought there.

May I suggest that in lieu of the greatly (or soon to be greatly) expanded homeworld section, that you add more to some other parts for the website? We talked about the possibility of an epic-poem describing their founding or other significant event, maybe something on the chapter's relics and a vehicle or two?

 

I know that you have started fluffing out the companies, which is great in my opinion. I think the Castigators hold such a fascination with me because they show the average DIYer like me what can be accomplished if you are passionate about an idea, and the depth that is being added is just amazing to me.

 

Well, theres a couple more cents...

@ Cpt. Tiberius that is an amazing drawing! Not only that its how i pictured the Hunters after reading this discussion.

 

Then Tiberius asked whether these Mutant Hunters would have mounts of some kind. And it made me curious as to what animals were on this planet. I imagine that they could only have existed if the ship that crashed on Losanco Secundus had animals aboard. And I guess they must've done, but I imagine the majority (if not all) would be in the dark-side settlements.

 

Not nessecarily. Maybe the planet already had an indignious species of creature that could be used as mounts. They could have certain adaptations which allow them to live on the dark side of the planet. An example could be a Polar Bear type creature, its fur keeps it warm and i could possibly have a sonic scream akin to that of the bat. So it is possible that other live was on the planet before humanity. But its up to you, your article and all that. Just some food for thought.

 

Also, it could be intresting if the mutants had stolen some of these mounts, who in turn are warped in the same way as the mutants. Maybe even centaur type mutants where rider and mount have warped into one? This brings another parallel to the planet. Light-Dark, Pure-Mutant, Hunter-Mutant Horseman. But again just food for thought.

Edited by Ferrus Manus

  • I'm not too keen on the indigenous life idea because I wanted to promote the idea that life shouldn't exist here - and yet, despite all hope, thanks to faith and good old-fashioned Human endurance, it does. I've considered mutated mounts for the mutants, but I'm not sure. Actually, Toyship and I have been discussing developing rules for the mutant hunts - small bands of mutant hunters (who have the edge in weaponry) against larger forces of mutants. We were looking at merging some of the specialist-games rules-sets in order to do it justice, leading to Toyship calling it 'CastiGorkaMunda'. It's not power-armoured, though, so we won't be dealing with it here. If anyone's interested in the process, PM me or something, and I'll include you on the mailing list.
    -
  • Toyship discussed fluffing out the Companies, and that's something I've been keen to do. As part of that, I've been trying to detail the various Captains of the Companies. First-Captain Escalus, Captains Caphius, Sirius, Timon and Anteas are done, for the most part, though I still have five more Captains I've like to give personalities to. Hopefully you guys can help! I'm also a keen fan of giving them individual and distinctive heraldries - Tiberius and I have talked about drawing the Ten Company banners - the Castigators' Chapter banner, the Crimson Standard, is on display here.
     
    Here's a useful table that'll provide us with a useful summary.

 

Heraldry Ideas
NamePositionHeraldryQuintiliusChapter Master---EscalusFirst Company CaptainA Clenched Fist holding a whip that coils around the WristCaphiusSecond Company Captain, Master of the WatchA Twin-Headed Eagle tearing a Snake in HalfSiriusThird Company Captain, Master of the ArsenalA StarburstTimonFourth Company Captain, Master of the FleetThe Blade of Thorns (?)AnteasFifth Company Captain, Master of the MarchesA Shield?RamusSixth Company Captain, Master of the Rites---LucienSeventh Company Captain, Chief Victualler---TigrisEighth Company CaptainA Winged AxeMalusNinth Company Captain---VenatusTenth Company Captain, Master of Recruits---

 

Zealot/Moderate Distribution
NameStanceQuintiliusModerateEscalusCarefully NeutralCaphiusZealotSiriusZealot/ConservativeTimonModerateAnteasModerateRamusTraditionalist/Conservative ZealotLucien?TigrisModerateMalusZealotVenatus?

 

  • You might also notice that I'm a little blank on Quintilius. If I had to compare him to any Chapter Master, he seems to remind me of Vladimir Pugh, the Imperial Fists' Master, in that he seems very much a background character, constantly dealing with the various tensions in the Chapter and playing peacemaker with other Imperial organisations. That's a shame, in a sense, as I don't really have a clear image of him.
    -
  • I am keen to further explore the political tensions within the Chapter between the Moderates and the Zealots. I think that's a key part of my plans to make the Castigators distinctive.
    -
  • Toyship's also raised the issue of an epic poem, which I want to run by Barret, as he had a similar idea once. If I'm going to do that, I'll need help! I have no idea what such a poem would be about, but I can imagine it being recited at one of the Castigators' fourteen-yearly gatherings. Any suggestions are more than welcome.

Edited by Commissar Molotov
I'm not too keen on the indigenous life idea because I wanted to promote the idea that life shouldn't exist here - and yet, despite all hope, thanks to faith and good old-fashioned Human endurance, it does. I've considered mutated mounts for the mutants, but I'm not sure. Actually, Toyship and I have been discussing developing rules for the mutant hunts - small bands of mutant hunters (who have the edge in weaponry) against larger forces of mutants. We were looking at merging some of the specialist-games rules-sets in order to do it justice, leading to Toyship calling it 'CastiGorkaMunda'. It's not power-armoured, though, so we won't be dealing with it here. If anyone's interested in the process, PM me or something, and I'll include you on the mailing list.

 

i'm quite excited about Castigorkamunda, and I cant wait to start developing it! B)

 

And its nice to see that there already is alot of work done on fluffing out the various companies and captains. I especially like the chart depicting whether the Captains are Zealot, Moderate, or *gasp* Liberal! I sort of see Quintilius as a liberal, seeing that he has to cater to the rest of the chapter AND to outside organisations. Now im not saying hes any Salamander, but i see him as Liberal for a Castigator. If I need to I can expand on that idea for you.

 

The political turmoil within the chapter would be a great touch, something that is explored in the Horus Heresy novels and a bit in Brotherhood of the Snake, and I think more chapters should at least touch on the subject. These arent mindless automatons for Emperor's sake, they have dreams and ambitions, and opinions like any other human, although they are something more.

 

An Epic would be awesome in my opinion, and reciting it every 14 years is a good idea. I believe it should be about the Founding or the Oath of the Vocates, something important like that.

 

Some more change, soon you'll have a dollar! (or pound in your case :huh: )

Toyship's also raised the issue of an epic poem, which I want to run by Barret, as he had a similar idea once. If I'm going to do that, I'll need help! I have no idea what such a poem would be about, but I can imagine it being recited at one of the Castigators' fourteen-yearly gatherings. Any suggestions are more than welcome.

 

I'll help, but only on the condition it's entirely written in limerick. ;)

 

Gimme a shout next time you're on MSN, I'd be happy to help out.

wooh! A Castigatorial Limerick! How dirty! How much do YOU Castigate? Lol...wow.....

 

There once was a red Terminator;

Not Ultramarine, 'twas a Castigator!

His greatest delight

Was a rapid deep-strike.

But it failed - we'll see him later.

 

;)

Looking now at the Chapter's 'political' distribution, I'd say there would need to be an even amount of 'Zealots' and 'Moderates' amongst the Captains, while Quintilius could be more of a 'Liberal', as ToyShip suggested. He would definitely have to be the anchor on some affairs, and would need to be more of a neutral factor to keep the Captains and their respective companies in-check. As for the Company Captains, just glancing at Tigris and Malus, I'd say the eighth's Captain would be more of a zealot. Tigris is the 'Assault Captain', and he'd be much more of a young firebrand, as you'd say. (Eager to prove his worth to Quintilius and his fellow comrades.) While Tigris is a zealot, his counterweight, Malus would probably be more experienced in the Astartes art of war, and I picture him as a extreme moderate. For several reasons, but mainly because he'd have to keep his devastator squads under control, and it would be more suiting, if he was more of a lesser extremist. I'm not too sure yet, as far as Ramus and Lucien go, I'll think about them later. Venatus would probably be the oldest Captain in the Chapter, beside Caphius, eh? I think he would, since he's the Scout Company Captain, he needs to be a character that is truly experienced in all aspects of being a Space Marine, but he will also be someone, who all of the Castigators would meet, upon entering the Chapter. You could possibly fashion Venatus as a zealot, since he would be one of the first Space Marines, to inject that fiery determination into the young recruits of the Castigators.

 

Now for the Captain heraldry, I'm not too certain. <_< The only one that sprang to mind, when looking at the charts was Tigris's. It could be something similar in style to, two crossing combat knives. Some may see this as corny, and I'd not want to create something for the Captain, that didn't represent him well. I'll be thinking of more ideas, in the next few days, on the Captain's personal insignia, and not to forget, Quintilius's too.

I agree with all of the above Darth Potato. Your understanding of their tempers seems to be in pretty good conjunction with me. As for Ramus, as the Master of Rites, I think he would need to be more of a moderate, but i suppose argument could me made for Zealot too. He is captain of a reserve company, so i would see him as being less fiery than his battle company brothers.

 

Two Cents

It seems the obvious thing to do to make exactly the same number of moderates and zealots. Although you could equally argue the zealots are a small but exceptionally vocal minority. I mean, Caphius is old. He'll never make it to Chapter Master, though he covets the position. Somehow Escalus, who is far younger than Caphius, has been made First-Captain, and it's relatively common knowledge that Quintilius has been eyeing Timon up as a potential successor. Quintilius has to keep in mind the politics of the position, and the potential damage Caphius would wreak if he were Chapter Master. With that said, I don't think you can consider Quintilius a 'Liberal'. I've deliberately avoided using the term 'Liberal' in the Castigators because it conveys entirely the wrong connotations. Quintilius wouldn't be that lax.

 

It also seems somewhat obvious to me to make Tigris a zealot, just because he's the Captain of the assault reserve. It seems this paradigm in 40k that 'Combat' = 'Screaming Zealot'. I'm not sure if making Tigris a zealot is just too obvious.

 

I'm not sure about Venatus being the second-oldest; though I have considered utilising that new Scout Sergeant model for him. I'm not sure. Though he would be in a position to see Losanco regularly, seeing the impact of mutant raids and the like. The question is perhaps whether he associates 'mutants' with other things.

 

Perhaps it's important to clarify the differences between 'zealots' and 'moderates'. All in the Castigators hate mutants. They've been brought up to hate mutants. The nicest, happiest Castigator in the Chapter would still hate mutants. The Zealots will go further - they would hate astropaths, navigators, Librarians in other Chapters - perhaps even Marines from other gene-seeds. Perhaps not to the extent of attacking them, but they'd be completely convinced of their own superiority. Zealots might be inclined towards more radical actions, doing whatever they can to exterminate their enemies. Some might well fall back to traditional weaponry and equipment, such as the trusty flamer.

 

Not entirely sure about the idea that Reserve Company Captains need to be less fiery than Battle-Company Captains. You could even have a Reserve Captain who has stayed a Reserve Captain because his views are unpopular, perhaps. I'm not sure if that would work.

Well, personally i think that the type of company they command would dictate what sort of personality they had. I mean i see Tigris as a fiery passionate zealot because he is the Assualt-Captain and his tactics are to get personal with the enemy. But at the same time i see Malus as moderate/conservative as he commands the devastator company which needs a calm and level head IMHO not someone whose strength of their beliefs makes them want to charge at the enemy.
Certainly. Yet that just seems a little obvious to me. It would be equally possible to have a level-headed Assault Captain that carefully and dispassionately constructs his battle-plans before carrying them out with ruthless efficiency. It would be equally possible to have a zealous Devastator Captain that relishes crushing the enemy with the sort of high-grade firepower that is the preserve of the Adeptus Astartes.
Now for the Captain heraldry, I'm not too certain. The only one that sprang to mind, when looking at the charts was Tigris's. It could be something similar in style to, two crossing combat knives. Some may see this as corny, and I'd not want to create something for the Captain, that didn't represent him well. I'll be thinking of more ideas, in the next few days, on the Captain's personal insignia, and not to forget, Quintilius's too.

 

I can see why you thought of that for Tigris' heraldry, but a thing I have noticed is that the Castigator's are very sword heavy- which isn't nessecarily a bad thing, Purgator, Sword of Sorrow, Blade of Thorns etc, so maybe for the reserve captains they could be armed with other weapons i.e mace, axe... and the sword be considered a badge of 'office' as in the office of Captain of a Battle Company, this would add more importance to the named weapons given to each of the Captains. So then for instant if Tigris was armed with an axe, then maybe his heraldry could be an axe surronded by a halo of light, covered in thorns etc...

Edited by Ferrus Manus
I can see why you thought of that for Tigris' heraldry, but a thing I have noticed is that the Castigator's are very sword heavy- which isn't nessecarily a bad thing, Purgator, Sword of Sorrow, Blade of Thorns etc, so maybe for the reserve captains they could be armed with other weapons i.e mace, axe... and the sword be considered a badge of 'office' as in the office of Captain of a Battle Company, this would add more importance to the named weapons given to each of the Captains. So then for instant if Tigris was armed with an axe, then maybe his heraldry could be an axe surronded by a halo of light, covered in thorns etc...

 

There's no rule that the Castigators' Captains have to have swords. Caphius doesn't have a sword, he has a Power Fist. I can't remember what Darth Potato has given Sirius. So there's certainly no rules as to what Tigris would have to fight with. Indeed, some Captains might have several weapons options. I've certainly nothing against the various Captains with differing weapons.

Since making Tigris a zealot is the obvious choice, it may not be the best choice. I could see Tigris being a moderate simply because his tactics must be more refined in order to preserve the lives of his marines. He could be a level-headed, thorough tactician as Mol mentioned earlier. Just because he likes to punch a man's head off doesn't mean he have to froth at the mouth while he's doing it. Conversely, I could see Malus being a zealot since he has a bit more room for aggression in a more supportive environment. His armor or weaponry is covered in kill marks of vehicles from his latest trip to the field and he despises the tainted machine spirits that have been 'mutated' by servitude to traitors or xenos. Perhaps that's a bit too extreme and Techmarine-ish, but it's just a possibility to express a more zealous attitude.

 

I don't like to think of any Castigator as being "Liberal", either. I would imagine that the most Liberal Castigator is akin to a more zealot-inclined Moderate of another Chapter. I think Moderate and Zealot work well enough and says a bit about the Chapter in that there are no Liberals. The difference between a moderate and a zealot is the former can work with other Chapters without letting their prejudices consume them entirely. There are no Castigators that say "Well, maybe those mutants and psykers aren't so bad...", which is part of why the Castigators are so fun to read about.

 

As far as heraldry goes, I'm afraid I can't be of much use there. It's never really been one of the things I've tried to create for a Chapter.

Interesting post, Darrell. I think it's definitely some food for thought. I'm somewhat stuck on the Reserve Captains.

 

Also, an interesting point of discussion - is it really the case that Reserve Captains are 'not as good as' Battle-Captains? Arguably, the Reserve Captains do an important job in the Chapter. What qualifies a Captain to do one over the other? We have plenty of examples of Veteran Sergeants becoming Captains, rather than Reserve Captains shifting up to become Battle-Captains...

 

 

 

(In other news, the first draft of Castigorkamunda is done. PM me your email address if you want a copy.)

Just some notes of mine that might fuel the discussion of the Castigators' political landscape. I hope to be further re-detailing my organisation in the light of the new Codex: Space Marines (including Veteran Assault Squads, for example).

 

  • Chapter Master Quintilius
    Quintilius has led the Castigators for the last hundred years. His grizzled face speaks of his long centuries of service; before he ascended to the venerated office of Master, he had served the Chapter with honour for over three hundred years. In battle, he is a formidable figure, surrounded by the devastatingly skilled warriors of the Chapter's Honour Guard.
     
    But Quintilius is acutely aware that the duties of a Chapter Master do not solely reside upon the battlefield. he does what he must to quell the more zealous voices within the Chapter and to mediate fractious truces with the Adeptus Astra Telepathica and the Navis Nobilite, organisations of psykers and mutants upon whom the Chapter's existence depends. Those organisations that share long-standing relations with the Castigators see Quintilius as a moderate; under his command, the Castigators have enjoyed strengthened relations with the Adeptus Mechanicus, the Inquisition and even other Chapters of the Astartes.
  • First-Captain Escalus
    Clad in Terminator Armour and wielding the mighty sword Purgator, First-Captain Escalus is an awe-inspiring and imposing figure. His is the responsibility of leading the Hallowed First Company, and he has carefully honed the Veteran Cadre of the Castigators, creating a fearful force of retribution. Escalus has earnt the unwavering loyalty of those under his Command, as well as the respect of his fellow Captains. The Castigators possess only twenty-one suits of Terminator Armour, carefully maintained by the Chapter's artificers. As First-Captain, Escalus is permitted to don the armour of the Terminator to led the Chapter's First Company to Victory.
    ----> Purgator:
  • Captain Caphius
    Caphius is a member of the Old Guard, the oldest currently-serving Captain in the Chapter. He styles himself after the famed Hero-Captain Lycidius, adhering rigidly to his doctrines. Indeed, some say that Caphius sees himself as Lycidius's spiritual successor. He sees his Company as a furious weapon in the arsenal of the Imperium, and has hand-picked the most faithful and furious Marines from the reserve Companies to supplement his forces. In battle, Caphius leads from the front, knowing that his Sergeants and their Marines are each as devoted to the cause as he is. The Second Company is known to use a high proportion of flamer weapons in order to ensureheretics and recidivists receive no succour. Brash and bombastic, Caphius attempts to ensure he is in Command of any operation to which he is assigned.
    ----> The Hero's Mantle: Caphius wears a blessed cloak once worn by Hero-Captain Lycidius himself.
  • Captain Sirius
    Captain Sirius's heraldry is that of a blazing star. The sun is of special significance to the Castigators - the people of Losanco Secundus live in darkness and survive by moonlight. To venture to the bright-side and to see the sun is to face death - a transition that all Castigators must make. Sirius displays the blazing power of the sun - it is a fitting analogy for the potent firepower he wields as Master of the Castigators' Arsenal.
     
    Sirius is gruff and imposing, by turns stern and ferocious. On the field of battle, he commands heavy batteries of plasma fire with deft skill - batteries that proved useful in the Third Company's campaigns against the Tyranid swarms.
  • Captain Timon
    Timon is the current Captain of the Fourth Company, and he carries the honorific title 'Master of the Fleet'. Timon first made his name fighting against the Dark Eldar, before he was appointed Captain of the Fourth.
     
    Whilst others in the Castigators are brash and bombastic, Timon is soft-spoken. However, only a fool would consider him to be weak or mild. It is said that Timon's actions, both on the battlefield and off, have greatly impressed Chapter Master Quintilius. His moderate tendencies have been an asset to his role as Fleet-Master; He is nominally in charge of every vessel owned by the Chapter and all of the serfs crewing them. He diligently oversees every arrangement made to ensure the Chapter can fight effectively. Such arrangements include dealing with the fleet's Navigators, Techmarines and Astropaths.
     
    Timon is a skilled Captain, experienced in the ways of war. Thus far, he is the only Commander of the Castigators to have fought against the loathsome Tau. His presence within the battle-lines has earnt him the respect and loyalty of those under his command. Timon has been allowed to lead exploratory crusades throughout the Ultima Segmentum, and the Fourth have travelled further than any of the other Battle-Companies, participating in many wide-ranging campaigns and gaining great victories for the Castigators.
    ----> The Blade of Thorns:
    ----> The Chastener:
  • Captain Anteas
    Anteas is a young Captain, the youngest in the entire Chapter. He has worked hard to ensure he has the full loyalty of every Marine under his command. Backed up by a core of experienced Sergeants, the Fifth Company is battle-capable, and already several trophies and tributes adorn the walls of the Fifth Chapel. Anteas is known to confide in his Sergeants and his Lexicanium, often attempting to discern the best route of action. He has clashed on several occasions with Captain Caphius, who considers him to be incapable of the decisive action warranted by a Commander of the Adeptus Astartes. Within the Chapter, Anteas is known as a moderate, and this has not endeared him to the more zealous elements within the Chapter.
    ----> The Sword of Sorrow:
  • Captain Ramus
     
  • Captain Lucien
     
  • Captain Tigris
    Tigris is a strong, well-liked Captain. Only relatively recently inducted as Captain of the Assault Reserve, he greatly values the respect of his peers, and aims to win it through glorious victory. He meticulously plans his asasults in order to ensure the enemy cannot thwart him before launching into the fray at the head of his Battle-Brothers, leading by example.
  • Captain Malus
     
  • Captain Venatus

Edited by Commissar Molotov
He has clashed on several occasions with Captain Caphius, who considers him to be incapable of the decisive action warranted by a Commander of the Adeptus Astartes.

 

So what are the results of these clashes? Do the Captains refuse to fight with each other? Or do they simply begrudge one another, akin to the dislike with Uriel and Learchus? The potential 'cracks' between the various parties of the Castigators is something intresting that could be discussed.

Edited by Ferrus Manus

There's a strong dislike. Ultimately, they'll do whatever they're ordered to do by Quintilius. Doesn't mean that they have to do it with much grace. Caphius and Anteas fought alongside each other on the world of Maethax, where Caphius was stymied by the Word Bearers. Anteas and the Fifth really won the campaign for the Castigators, but Caphius took the glory and accolades. That's part of what my next Castigators fiction will focus on.

 

EDIT: Today I finally fiddled around with .TGA files and got the Castigators into Dawn of War: Dark Crusade. That was pretty fun.

 

 

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/Castidow1.jpg

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/Castidow3.jpg

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/Ultragator.jpg

Edited by Commissar Molotov
Looking good Mol, always nice too see more. I like how you've added in some battlegear references too. I think Anteas is my favorite so far, as it seems like he has the most to prove. I sort of see him being taken under one of the other captains' wing, to show him the ropes, so to speak. Just an idea though.

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