The Castigators

[Ferrus Manus]

Sure, but I'd save the details of the campaign for msn. Save clogging the thread. I've you can't catch me in the next few days. Just PM me your ideas. So

[brother varen]

Mol, i know you told me before, but what does the Castigator fleet consist of?

 

I guess i'll have to get an MSN account to hear everything else that is going on, huh? Is that where you all meet?

 

Mol, what is the percentage of Castigators that get seconded to the Deathwatch, by chapter and company? What do you have of the Insignium Castigator? I will be starting to model soon and need details to get them right. Need markings for veterans, sergeants, squad leaders, company markings, vehicle marking, and Deathwatch markings. How are they applied to the Castigators armour?

[Commissar Molotov]

Sure, but I'd save the details of the campaign for msn. Save clogging the thread. I've you can't catch me in the next few days. Just PM me your ideas. So

 

Well, I don't mind them being in this thread - which is thirty-seven pages long and getting close to a thousand replies! Clogged is clogged. :tu: Plus, it lets us all comment on it. At the very least I'd ask M2C to coordinate it in his B+C blog and provide us all with regular updates.

 

 

Mol, i know you told me before, but what does the Castigator fleet consist of?

 

I guess i'll have to get an MSN account to hear everything else that is going on, huh? Is that where you all meet?

 

Mol, what is the percentage of Castigators that get seconded to the Deathwatch, by chapter and company? What do you have of the Insignium Castigator? I will be starting to model soon and need details to get them right. Need markings for veterans, sergeants, squad leaders, company markings, vehicle marking, and Deathwatch markings. How are they applied to the Castigators armour?

 

The fleet as I have it consists of the Battle Barges Sacred Endeavour and Holy Enterprise and the Strike Cruisers Inviolate, Thrice-Blessed Sword, Defiance, Ascendance and Radiant Light. Alongside that would be assorted escort vessels (but DON'T ask me much about them, because I don't know/haven't given it thought.)

 

MSN is up to you - it's useful, but not essential. It does have its place but it isn't used all the time. I like this thread being a central resource that everyone can access and that can store large quantities of data.

 

With regards to the percentage of Castigators seconded to the Deatwatch, I'm not sure that I could give you specific figures. I would say that it's less than 50% of the Marines. Probably less than 30% - you could perhaps say that one in five Marines will've served in the Deathwatch at some stage or another, though Fourth Company takes the most of those. Fifth Company has a squad called "The Excruciators" who are so-named because they're 'tools of the Inquisition'. ;)

 

With regards to Insignium Castigator, if you have specific questions I can attempt to answer them.

 

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/Vocates/Castigators.gif

 

The Castigators wear dark red power armour. They display the Chapter's badge upon their left shoulder pad and a squad designator on their right. The Chapter badge is displayed in white on a red field; it is typically displayed as an arm holding a whip, although certain decorated variants of the badge have altered the design. The Chapter symbol is said to symbolise the punishment the Castigators inflict upon their enemies.

 

The squad designation is displayed upon the Marine's right shoulder pad. Tactical Squads are signified by a large white vertical arrow. The Assault Squads utilise a pair of crossed, double-headed arrows. Devastator Squads are designated by an inverted 'V' symbol.

 

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/5741/companieswy8.jpg

 

Each of the Chapter's Ten Companies has a unique badge identifying it in the field of battle. This is typically applied to the left knee of the Chapter's power armour, as well as appearing on standards and vehicles belonging to the Company. The First and Tenth Companies will often dispense with these markings.

 

Chapter Veterans

 

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/Castigators/CastigatorsVeteran.gif

 

The Castigators' First Company is clearly distinguished by the use of white shoulder-rims and helmets. The Veteran Squads of the First are typically denoted by a rendition of the Crux Terminatus upon their right shoulder-pad.

 

There are almost no limits to the degree in which the Castigators' veterans may customise their weaponry and armour. Many choose to display their own heraldry and distinctions. No two warriors of the First Company truly look alike. Battle honours, sigils and citations adorn armour, and armour-plates are often decorated with bold patterns and symbols derived from the chapter insignia.

 

So the key way to distinguish First Company Veterans are the white helmets and shoulder rims. I'm undecided as to whether a Veteran Sergeant would have a red helmet with a white stripe or a white helmet with a red stripe. If we go back to tactical squads, in the Castigators Sergeants retain a red helmet. Their rank is signified by the Iron Skull, which is typically applied to their helmet but can be elsewhere on their armour. Like the Ultramarines, it could be displayed amidst the Chapter badge, but that could look odd on the Castigators. The Codex badge for squad leaders is the Iron Halo.

 

I'll recheck my Insignium Astartes but for vehicle markings you could get away with using the Company symbols I supplied earlier. Marines that've served in the Deathwatch or in the service of an Inquisitor are entitled to display symbols of the Deathwatch - in such a case their Deathwatch pad would replace their squad markings - their squad markings would likely be moved to a kneepad. There are other ways to display it, though - through the use of the =][= on kneepads, greaves or worked into heraldry. Even small Inquisitorial pendants or jewellery, potentially.

[brother varen]

Could the Iron skull for sergeants be placed on the chest plate of their armour? Have you deloveloped any specific battle honors that the Castigators use, besides the crown of thorns? The company markings are in what color? Red/White? Have you made any variant designs on the Castigator chapter symbol?

 

Thanks for the fleet info. No i don't need the number of escorts, :lol:

 

Mol, in any of the fluff or ideas you had for the Firebrands, did you have them working with an inquistor? If so what branch of the inquistion? I want to protray the Firebrands in a way that we both see them. Also need to know what bits that i need to get.

 

Also need the paint reciepes, that everyone has used, please. Has anyone used that new spraygun from GW? Is it worth it?

 

I'm thinking of themeing the army towards city fightning. If i do, what would you suggest on getting to make the army balanced? Any help on a list would be appreciated.

[Ferrus Manus]

Well, I don't mind them being in this thread - which is thirty-seven pages long and getting close to a thousand replies! Clogged is clogged. Plus, it lets us all comment on it. At the very least I'd ask M2C to coordinate it in his B+C blog and provide us all with regular updates.

Fair points. So let's go with that M2C if that's ok. And just for the record I have no issue with the 8th attacking by Aerial Assault or conducting sieges (But a the latter seems a waste of their Fast attack element ^_^) But I could see them charging into the breach followed up by the 3rd and other units. As a speartip type of unit.

 

I agree with Mol, that maybe the whole company wouldn't be used. Possibly a strikeforce instead.

 

Also need the paint reciepes, that everyone has used, please. Has anyone used that new spraygun from GW? Is it worth it?

Personally I wouldn't go with the paint gun. Stick with hand painting ;)

 

My recipe (on a Chaos Black undercoat):

- Basecoat of Mechrite Red

- Once that's even about two -three coats of watered down Red Gore.

- A wash of Scab Red

- Highlight with Red Gore/Blood Red 50/50 mix

- Extreme Highlights with Blood Red

 

I'm thinking of themeing the army towards city fightning. If i do, what would you suggest on getting to make the army balanced? Any help on a list would be appreciated.

Lots of troops with flamers, plus a few Dreadnoughts and Vindicators.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Ferrus Manus

[Commissar Molotov]

Could the Iron skull for sergeants be placed on the chest plate of their armour? Have you deloveloped any specific battle honors that the Castigators use, besides the crown of thorns? The company markings are in what color? Red/White? Have you made any variant designs on the Castigator chapter symbol?

 

Thanks for the fleet info. No i don't need the number of escorts, ^_^

 

Mol, in any of the fluff or ideas you had for the Firebrands, did you have them working with an inquistor? If so what branch of the inquistion? I want to protray the Firebrands in a way that we both see them. Also need to know what bits that i need to get.

 

Also need the paint reciepes, that everyone has used, please. Has anyone used that new spraygun from GW? Is it worth it?

 

I'm thinking of themeing the army towards city fightning. If i do, what would you suggest on getting to make the army balanced? Any help on a list would be appreciated.

 

The Iron Skull could theoretically be placed on their chestplate, yes - though it would be important to differentiate it from the common-or-garden-variety of skulls, which adorn just about every free surface in the Imperium. :P There are a number of plastic helmets that include the Iron Skull. Personally, I follow the rule that whilst Sergeants might not have the iron skull on their helmet, ordinary Marines wouldn't.

 

I don't especially have other Castigator-specific battle honours and iconography, no. You could look at using the prime helix on kneepads as a testament of purity. The sun/corona/halo are also used as symbols of purity and power. The kneepad Company markings would be in red and white, yes. So for your Second Company troops it'd just be a single downwards white stripe.

 

I don't think the Chapter symbol would vary that much - I do have a version of the badge where the whip is lashing rather than coiled -

 

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/Castigators/altcas.jpg

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/Castigators/Castibolter.jpg

 

Tiberius did a quick sketch of Third Company Chaplain Argentus which shows an example of the Chapter Badge incorporating other information - in this case, the Company number:

 

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/Castigators/Cas_Chappy_Low.jpg

 

You could perhaps look at these models by Fab-Gen that show the Tenth Squad, as designated by the 'X' branded into the arm on the banner:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/Cormack/Castigators/stuff030.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/Cormack/Castigators/castigators002-1.jpg

 

Here's the Third tactical squad of the Fourth Company, led by Sergeant Acacius:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/Cormack/Castigators/Acacius1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/Cormack/Castigators/Acacius3.jpg

 

And the Fourth tactical Squad, led by Erastus:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/Cormack/Castigators/Erastus1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/Cormack/Castigators/Erastus4.jpg

 

Fab-Gen had the Tactical Sergeants displaying the Chapter Badge (with Acacius incorporating his Terminator Honours) and the Combat Squads displaying the skull surrounded by the whip. Technically that's "wrong", as it's Sergeants that have the skull. Still, there's fluff to surround that sort of thing, so I don't tend to worry. ;) Those are just potential ideas that might inspire you, though.

 

As to Inquisitors, I can see Caphius working with Inquisitors. You make it sound as if there would be one Inquisitor attached to the Second Company - which isn't the case. I see him working well with Inquisitors from any of the Ordos, assuming they had appropriately Puritan convictions! Perhaps the Ordo Hereticus would be the best fit, though.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Commissar Molotov

[Marshal Rohr]

Wow, that puts mine to shame! Dang, those are some good looking marines...

 

 

Ok, I will work on the Adamark Campaign ideas here. But the actual fluff and meat of it will be in my blog.

 

Today, I begin construction of Squad VII 'Eagle's Claws' which I have bumped up on my painting list.

 

 

+++Edit+++

Is there a full pic of Argentus? I think I have an idea...

Edited January 26, 2009 by Marshal2 Crusaders

[Commissar Molotov]

Alas, no.

[Tyrannicide]

However, there is a larger version of Chaplain Argentus. You can see him here.

[Marshal Rohr]

I think he would be perfectly represented by the Power Fist Chaplain with a GS MK.4 over plate.

[Ferrus Manus]

Out of interest what would you guys feel the likelihood being that a said aspirant discovers that he is related to a long dead veteran of the Chapter? So his family would have the Myth of X, in which X is suddenly missing. Its a morality tale to them, but when the said aspirant joins the chapter he discovers X's name on the Chapter's Wall of Honour.

[Commissar Molotov]

Out of interest what would you guys feel the likelihood being that a said aspirant discovers that he is related to a long dead veteran of the Chapter? So his family would have the Myth of X, in which X is suddenly missing. Its a morality tale to them, but when the said aspirant joins the chapter he discovers X's name on the Chapter's Wall of Honour.

 

I can see it both ways - it's likely to happen but in order for them to be a 'veteran' it would have to be several generations in the past. Plus, like the Dark Angels the Castigators are given their names on their acceptance into the Chapter - they aren't born with them. So it might be difficult for an aspirant to be endowed with this knowledge.

[brother varen]

Ferrus, it sounds alright to me. But wouldn't these families be tracing their ancesters like those from Macrragge? A source of honor among the different settlements. I can see many settlements (rivials) competting for the honor of becoming chosen. Also, the Wall of Heros, would be housed in the company cripts, wouldn't it?

 

Mol, didn't you have a version of the chapter badge as a scourge (whip with multiple ends)? The prime helix sounds very interesting, but what would it be displayed for? A pre-battle meditation to symbolize their purity? Maybe a custom done by sergeants and above to amfirm their purity before battle by allowing the Apothecaries to do a vary strict regieme of testing on them? This would be displayed on their left kneepad, would it be a red symbol on a white field or a white symbol on a red field?

 

All the Castigators use sun symbols? :unsure: I thought only the 3rd company would use them.

 

Who would be allowed to use a varient chapter badge?

 

The kneepad company marking would be used by just troops correct? Apothecaries, Chaplains, and "Librarians" would not use the kneepad company markings, right? So the shoulder chapter badge with company markings incorporated in it would be correct for Apothecaries, Chaplians, and "Librarians"?

 

How are team leaders marked or bannered? Only sergeants are allowed to have banners, right?

 

Scouts have a white stripe painted across their eyes on their faces,right? What color are you painting the scouts clothing?

 

Has anyone used the new GW washes and foundation paints in their painting reciepe for the Castigators? Thanks, Ferrus, for your reciepe :unsure:

[Commissar Molotov]

Ferrus, it sounds alright to me. But wouldn't these families be tracing their ancesters like those from Macrragge? A source of honor among the different settlements. I can see many settlements (rivials) competting for the honor of becoming chosen. Also, the Wall of Heros, would be housed in the company cripts, wouldn't it?

 

You raise a good point - a society keen on genetic purity might put a lot of emphasis on lineage - the whole "X, son of X, son of X..." angle. Though the Losanco fluff has Chaplains taking boys from the mutant-hunting parties that fight along the twilight against the mutants, even leading raids into the light-side.

 

When Ferrus talked about the Wall of Heroes, I don't think he was being specific. I don't think the Castigators have a Wall of Heroes, and you're right that the Company Chapels (and their attendant crypts) would bear the roster of fallen Heroes. Of course, it would also be the duty of the Librarians to record and honour the deeds of the fallen.

 

Mol, didn't you have a version of the chapter badge as a scourge (whip with multiple ends)? The prime helix sounds very interesting, but what would it be displayed for? A pre-battle meditation to symbolize their purity? Maybe a custom done by sergeants and above to amfirm their purity before battle by allowing the Apothecaries to do a vary strict regieme of testing on them? This would be displayed on their left kneepad, would it be a red symbol on a white field or a white symbol on a red field?

 

I've not seen a version of the badge as a scourge, no. I don't think it would exist. I can imagine the symbol perhaps being in different colours, or displayed differently, but I don't know about actually changing the whip to something else. There's a page in Insignium Astartes which features variant symbols of the Ultramarines Chapter and mostly it's just different colours and such, as I recall. I'll get back to you on that. Variant Chapter symbols aren't really a priority when most people have enough trouble doing the basic one! ;)

 

The prime helix is just an attestation of purity, akin to a purity seal. Perhaps it might be more associated with zealots, but I don't know about it being "Chaplains and above". It could be on any Marine, perhaps. As for red/white or white/red - it could be both. Just as if you look at Fabricator-General's Castigators, not all of them have the same tactical symbols. If you're after that style of gothic and archaic markings that've been accrued over the millennia, that's up to you.

 

All the Castigators use sun symbols? :unsure: I thought only the 3rd company would use them.

 

Who would be allowed to use a varient chapter badge?

 

Variant badges would be a badge of honour, an award for particularly valorous deeds, I imagine. As to the sun symbol, yes, all Castigators would utilise them, it's just Sirius has adopted the halo as his heraldry, and is enamoured with the light/dark dichotomy. The idea of the power of the sun meshes nicely with the destructive potential he can unleash as Master of the Arsenal. Halos and starbursts could be worked into heraldry and iconography.

 

 

The kneepad company marking would be used by just troops correct? Apothecaries, Chaplains, and "Librarians" would not use the kneepad company markings, right? So the shoulder chapter badge with company markings incorporated in it would be correct for Apothecaries, Chaplians, and "Librarians"?

 

My personal opinion is that all Castigators attached to a Company (this doesn't include Techmarines) would bear the kneepad markings, where possible. If Marines don't have kneepads it could be incorporated as a badge on the greave or on the left (non Chapter symbol) shoulderpad. Chaplains would have the Company symbol. Some Marines could have another Company designator elsewhere in addition to their kneepad, which is what Tiberius was going for with his picture of Argentus.

 

How are team leaders marked or bannered? Only sergeants are allowed to have banners, right?

 

Depends on practicality and the requirements of the mission. If I can, I want all Sergeants and all Squad Leaders to have banners. I like it, and I think it's one of those aesthetic stylings intrinsic to 40k. As I mentioned, the Codex designation for the Squad Leader is the Iron Halo.

 

Scouts have a white stripe painted across their eyes on their faces,right? What color are you painting the scouts clothing?

 

The white stripe is a traditional symbol of the mutant hunters, which is why many of the scouts bear it - they don't have to, though. I would paint the scouts quite dark, with black or charcoal fatigues.

[Marshal Rohr]

As a matter of thrift, I dont give all Team Leaders Banners, but I do give them some kind of raised totem on their fusion packs. See Team leader Vorenus for details :o !

[Ferrus Manus]

I can see it both ways - it's likely to happen but in order for them to be a 'veteran' it would have to be several generations in the past. Plus, like the Dark Angels the Castigators are given their names on their acceptance into the Chapter - they aren't born with them. So it might be difficult for an aspirant to be endowed with this knowledge.

They only way around it would be for the Castigators to have records of their Battle-Brother's previous names then, that or a vision. And yes, X would be the aspirants' great great great granddad or something.

 

Ferrus, it sounds alright to me. But wouldn't these families be tracing their ancesters like those from Macrragge? A source of honor among the different settlements. I can see many settlements (rivials) competting for the honor of becoming chosen. Also, the Wall of Heros, would be housed in the company cripts, wouldn't it?

You raise a good point - a society keen on genetic purity might put a lot of emphasis on lineage - the whole "X, son of X, son of X..." angle. Though the Losanco fluff has Chaplains taking boys from the mutant-hunting parties that fight along the twilight against the mutants, even leading raids into the light-side.

 

When Ferrus talked about the Wall of Heroes, I don't think he was being specific. I don't think the Castigators have a Wall of Heroes, and you're right that the Company Chapels (and their attendant crypts) would bear the roster of fallen Heroes. Of course, it would also be the duty of the Librarians to record and honour the deeds of the fallen.

Both good points. I suggested the idea for Tigris, I thought that maybe Victrix could have belonged to a dead ancestor of his, so he took it from his crypt or from the armoury as a matter of honour.

[Nine_Breaker]

They only way around it would be for the Castigators to have records of their Battle-Brother's previous names then, that or a vision. And yes, X would be the aspirants' great great great granddad or something.

I think it's also worth pointing out that this dead veteran would have had to have children before he reached the ripe old age of 14 and was taken into the chapter.

 

Edit: I guess it could be an uncle or something though...

Edited January 28, 2009 by Nine_Breaker

[brother varen]

Ferrus, it could still work. But instead of taking the item for his ancestor's crypt, i would suggest that on Tigris' iniation into the Castigators that the Librarians and chaplains checked into his lineage. Upon raising to the rank of captain or doing a great deed in the chapter's eyes, they would gift his ancestor's weapon to him in a ceremony.

 

With the Castigator's belief in purity, I would see them having some traditions bound to it. Especialy the gifting of honoured weapons from past heros.

 

Mol, I believe that the Losanco fluff might need to be looked into more. The whole aspraint lineage would further enforce the Castigator belief in purity. But this is only a suggestion :cuss Maybe assigning a chaplain to each settlement, where as to watch "their" lineage of aspriants would work.

 

Nine, good spot. but if we look at the world of today as a reference, its possible. Maybe its a requirement before the boy goes on a hunt to further his lineage, set by the settlement elders?

Edited January 28, 2009 by brother varen

[brother varen]

Mol, i was thinking of making a flamer turret for a Razorback, like the Immolator. Would this be ok to use with the Castigators?

[Donkey Kong]

Varen, a post like that? For a chaplain? Maybe one of the 'Librarians' could do it during their rotation in the archives? But, from previous fluff it looks like Chaplains are at the head of all the companies inspiring the Marines.

[brother varen]

King, the chaplains would watch the aspriant and judge him by their actions on the hunts. Once accepted into the chapter their birth names would be entered into the Librarian's annuals. The Librarians would research the aspriant's lineage. If the lineage is to a great hero, i would think he would be "marked or watched". But if each chaplain is in charge of each settlement, the bloodlines or lineage of the future aspriant should be known to him.

 

As to the people of Losanco, once the boy was chosen, the settlement historian or elder would enter him into their annuals of selection. I see the settlement or village seeing this as a great honor and maybe celebrating in some way.

 

Now to lineage: I think that before a boy goes on the quest of selection or great hunt, village tradition would be that he marry and concieve a child before his hunt to mantain bloodline purity.

[Donkey Kong]

I see what you mean. However, a accepted boy must wait several months to leave Losanco, and Emperor forbid that this child is born with a mutation, may I ask what then?

 

One question I have concerning the hunts, though, is how often is a hunt done, is there some scheduling? Does a Chaplain watch every hunt?

Edited January 29, 2009 by KingHongKong

[Marshal Rohr]

I thought the hunts were like raiding parties. Not big events. I like the idea of one or two Castigators being able to trace lineage, but not all of them.

 

Ferrus, if you had him be related to the Hero-Captain I think it would be funny for Caphius to be jealous of him.

[Donkey Kong]

He sees himself as his successor, wouldn't he be more driven to treat him as a son and even closer brother?

 

If you do go the route of jealousy, have him insult him at every turn, just go against what he says for the hell of it. Either way would make me chuckle, really.

[Commissar Molotov]

They only way around it would be for the Castigators to have records of their Battle-Brother's previous names then, that or a vision. And yes, X would be the aspirants' great great great granddad or something.

 

Personally I'm not sure that they would. Possibly, potentially - but I'm not sure.

 

Both good points. I suggested the idea for Tigris, I thought that maybe Victrix could have belonged to a dead ancestor of his, so he took it from his crypt or from the armoury as a matter of honour.

 

I think that idea is a little trite. Personally I don't much like brothers being inducted (though I imagine it can happen) - Perhaps because I like to emphaise the bond of brotherhood between all Marines, rather than familial relationships. I wouldn't like to think that Nepotism could exist in a Space Marine Chapter, for example.

 

 

They only way around it would be for the Castigators to have records of their Battle-Brother's previous names then, that or a vision. And yes, X would be the aspirants' great great great granddad or something.

I think it's also worth pointing out that this dead veteran would have had to have children before he reached the ripe old age of 14 and was taken into the chapter.

 

Edit: I guess it could be an uncle or something though...

 

I had figured it would be an uncle, rather than being directly related.

 

 

Mol, I believe that the Losanco fluff might need to be looked into more. The whole aspraint lineage would further enforce the Castigator belief in purity. But this is only a suggestion ;) Maybe assigning a chaplain to each settlement, where as to watch "their" lineage of aspriants would work.

 

Nine, good spot. but if we look at the world of today as a reference, its possible. Maybe its a requirement before the boy goes on a hunt to further his lineage, set by the settlement elders?

 

I'll look for my Losancan fluff, though there's a fair bit in this thread when talking about the Mutant Hunters. I'll give it some thought, as there are some subtle changes I want to make. I don't want Chaplains - or any Castigators - inhabiting the settlements, as my idea was that the castigators would be held in an almost mythical status.

 

 

Mol, i was thinking of making a flamer turret for a Razorback, like the Immolator. Would this be ok to use with the Castigators?

 

Isn't there a heavy flamer Razorback in the Codex? I thought there was.

 

Now to lineage: I think that before a boy goes on the quest of selection or great hunt, village tradition would be that he marry and concieve a child before his hunt to mantain bloodline purity.

 

I'm not sure about that, given that Space Marines require neophytes to be aged between ten and twelve.