Vindicatus Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I can see a problem with this : On one hand, we immediately scream bloody HERESY because we heard that Matt Ward wrote this, and we know what he does to fluff when it doesn't belong to the Ultramarines. On the other hand, GW knows how badly the fanbase reacted to CS Goto, and are likely to react to yet another fiasco al'a Ward. Maybe they released that Ward wrote it to make the fans prepare for Seppuku, only to sudden drop solid-freaking-gold in our laps instead. Either way, I'd be dropping the F-bomb at the top of my lungs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexHolker Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I think that's my point. GW is changing the very foundations of what makes a Grey Knight. That's because "perfection" as GKs used to have (or almost) leaves very little margin when it comes to writing fluff or rules. Only if you're trying to write the wrong kind of fluff in the first place. There are factions in 40k that are defined by the traits that make them poor protagonists, and removing those traits defeats the purpose. It's like trying to write an in-character, introspective piece from the viewpoint of an Arco-flagellant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boreas Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I think we're over-thinking it :) GW doesn't have a big history of doing stuff like that. They're not over-planning it. If something, GW has an history of underplanning stuff and releasing codice with type (think Vanguard/Sternguard entry in Codex: SM). On the other hand, Brigadier K. Draigo is the name of the officer in charge of Area 51... Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 I'll try and incorporate the changes mentioned a few pages back later. :RTBBB: The Grey Knights aren't supposed to be heroes. They are supposed to be weapons against Chaos. Three of Oiad's points (wielding Daemon swords, being susceptible to despair and associating with warp entities) go against the very foundation of what makes a Grey Knight a Grey Knight. Grey Knights aren't servitors, they're allowed to have *gasp* character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justcar Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I doubt that this is a GW misinformation campaign. Mordrak's ghost knights don't bother me. I see them as an unconscious projection of his psychic power, which is cool. I am deeply bothered by GKs using daemon weapons!! I hope that that part of the rumor is false. If not, I'll probably just go into denial and refer to it as something else. :RTBBB: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinoDoc Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Marmande: You aren't trying hard enough if you can't make an interesting Puritan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 Did Cain say it was actually a Daemon Weapon or a cursed weapon? Either way, I think people are missing the point that the only reason Crowe is able to even use the thing in the first place is because he's so pure in the first place. It doesn't take away from the purity aspect of the Grey Knights, it adds to it. I'd make an analogy to a certain green-haired swordsman but perhaps a One Piece reference wouldn't be appropriate. :RTBBB: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinoDoc Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Either way, I think people are missing the point that the only reason Crowe is able to even use the thing in the first place is because he's so pure in the first place. It doesn't take away from the purity aspect of the Grey Knights, it adds to it.I'm sure that's what Inquisitor Laredian thought as well. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindicatus Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I was going to say that Crowe, in his fight to wrestle control and maintain purity is somewhat akin to Tal'Rasha from Diablo 2, burdening himself so that others may be free of it's grasp. I say somewhat because I don't recall someone jamming a jagged metal shard into the chest of Crowe. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 I'm sure that's what Inquisitor Laredian thought as well. :( Whoever that is, by the way you say it I'm also sure he or she didn't have hexagrammatic silver wards under their skin that caused them to burst into flames at the first sign of corruption, so I'd say Crowe has the 'advantage' here. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindicatus Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Laredian was the previous High Protector of Formosa, who produced a daemon-bound crystal he yoinked from a cult he has wiped out, and claimed that using the powers of Chaos against itself (like using a daemon-weapon against Chaos) could be put to use for the good of the Imperium. Then Coteaz smashed it with a daemonhammer and declared him Diabolus for trafficking in the daemonic, and was found guilty of not only using daemonhosts, but also reading and transcripting from heretical texts and 'employing tools of the enemy', which is considered heresy against the Emperor. Sorry, the ends don't justify the means, despite having a +1 warding save of "I suck less than you do". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 The ends don't justify the means? I don't think you "get" this whole Inquisition business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindicatus Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Oh I really do. There's a great deal of difference between sacrificing an entire world to the flames of purgation and damning yourself and those around you, blaspheming against the very oath you swore to uphold in your duty to the Emperor by meddling with heretical tech, weapons, or devices. They, WE, are the Ordo Malleus; we seek out, root out, and destroy the daemon. Not parlay with them. Not give them a foothold in this existence because it offers opportunity as a weapon against its own kin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinoDoc Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 They, WE, are the Ordo Malleus; we seek out, root out, and destroy the daemon. Not parlay with them. Not give them a foothold in this existence because it offers opportunity as a weapon against its own kin.Radicals would take a different view but then we both know where that path eventually leads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 Yes, we posters on an internet forum about space barbies are the Ordo Malleus, yes. Either way that's a very Puritanical argument you're making. Not saying I disagree but 1) We don't know what's up with the weapon until we read the fluff ourselves, and 2) My whole point about Crowe. They aren't just using it, they're also trying to contain it by giving it to the group of individuals who are the most unlikely to succumb. The larger point still is that this is turning into a discussion for another thread, so at this point I'd suggest a spin-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 The ends don't justify the means? I don't think you "get" this whole Inquisition business. But they do for Radicals. Radical does not equal heretic except in the eyes of a puritan. The risk for a Radical falling to chaos is higher, but the reward is higher. Two ways of thinking, both with inherent risks(Puritan, not doing something at the right time to destroy the right threat with the right means). I like both schools of thought :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindicatus Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 You know, Fulgrim held the very same regard for the sword he found in that alien temple. It was something he didn't fully understand, but something that gave him power. All heretical incantations, devices, or items have a sort of trap door. That is their very purpose, to lure people deeper into the fold until it's far too late to turn back. While the wording is rather 'vague' when it comes to describing the weapon, it doesn't matter if the weapon itself is actually a daemon-weapon, or if it were just merely 'tainted'. I refuse to believe that a Grey Knight would subject themselves to using something that once belonged to or was used by the Enemy. That screams 'corrupted Grey Knight' storyline somewhere in the future, which is the very antithesis of their background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexHolker Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Either way that's a very Puritanical argument you're making. You know who else are Puritans? The Grey Knights. That's the whole point: if some moron Radical inquisitor was the one running around with a daemon weapon, we wouldn't be complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 I don't like it any more than you do but I think you're reacting a bit too harshly without reading the actual fluff first. For all we know Cain got the language wrong and there's something else to Crowe's weapon that we're not aware of. Maybe by 'daemon' (which *hint hint* actually hasn't been used yet, and it was a daemonweapon that corrupted the hexagrammatical ward-less Fulgrim) they actually mean a Greater Daemon of the Emperor aka a Living Saint? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inache Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I think at least keeping a daemon weapon is in keeping with the Grey Knights. What better place for a daemon than being eternally trapped, unable to manifest in the physical world, and under the constant gaze of your most hated enemy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindicatus Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Alrighty boys. Delivering before I go grab a bite to eat and get some Tanna from my aide, Jurgen. :) Castellan Garran Crowe -Head and Brotherhood Champion of the Purifier Order -Wielder of The Blade of Antwyr, a super daemon sword that not only attracts heretics and daemons like flies, but tries to corrupt and possess the wielder, thus it was entrusted to the Purifiers to keep safe. Crowe is the only one with the fortitude to keep it under control. -Stats: 8 4 4 4 2 6 * 10 2+ -150 pts -The reason for the * on his A slot is because he has the same "The Perfect Warrior" ability that Brotherhood Champs have -Artificer Armour; Frak, Krak, and Psyk-Out Nades, Storm Bolter; Iron Halo -The Blade of Antwyr: Close Combat Weapon, but the turn his unit GETS assaulted they gain Furious Charge and re-roll all failed to hit rolls for that Assault Phase -Master Swordsman: His CC attacks are Rending and Rend on a 4+ -All the rules a regular Broterhood Champ has -Purifiers are TROOPS with Castellan Crowe I'm not sure what that looks like to everyone else, vague language nonwithstanding. Sure as hell looks like a DAEMON WEAPON to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 You know, Fulgrim held the very same regard for the sword he found in that alien temple. It was something he didn't fully understand, but something that gave him power. All heretical incantations, devices, or items have a sort of trap door. That is their very purpose, to lure people deeper into the fold until it's far too late to turn back. While the wording is rather 'vague' when it comes to describing the weapon, it doesn't matter if the weapon itself is actually a daemon-weapon, or if it were just merely 'tainted'. I refuse to believe that a Grey Knight would subject themselves to using something that once belonged to or was used by the Enemy. That screams 'corrupted Grey Knight' storyline somewhere in the future, which is the very antithesis of their background. Wait for the codex to be released and you will be illuminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Orlock Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Obviously he needs to find a sword from a rival cult so he can balance his Ambition with his Fury and pull a Mirumoto Kenzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 I'm not sure what that looks like to everyone else, vague language nonwithstanding. Sure as hell looks like a DAEMON WEAPON to me. That says CURSED to me, as nowhere does it say the thing is sentient, and you don't see Calgar or Grimnar being corrupted in the fluff. Semantics aside: it's under the custody of the Grey Knights. I honestly can't think of a better organization to take responsibility for it. It's their schtick. EDIT: And take this to a new thread already yeesh. EDIT2: How did I miss the 'super daemonweapon' in the quote? :) Doesn't change my argument about Grey Knights being the ones for the job, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Inquisitor Lord Torquemada Coteaz also wields a deamonhammer in the current codex. Perhaps the deamon sword doesn't house a deamon, but is named like that because it is used to kill em. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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