*Furyou Miko Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I reckon, Vendetta up to 160-180 points, no other change. Veterans down to 1 Special and 1 Heavy, squads of 5-10 with Doctrine upgrades costing per model. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3634476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Well, I've thought (and said) for a long time that I think Vendettas and Valkyries are way underpriced so I think a price increase would be a good thing. Frankly, veterans down to 1 special wouldn't have me crying in my beer either. "Chimeltavet" spam always deeply annoyed me. I'd be a bit more surprised if they nerfed vets quite that much, though. I'd rather see a 0-1 limitation or make them an Elites choice again (unlocked as troops with a special character, maybe). What's the deal with the jacked-up prices on power weapon and power fist, though? I hope that's not a sign of things to come. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3634506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 What are they paying? 15 points is standard for a power weapon, 25 for a fist, IIRC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3634519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherthefallenangel Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 What are they paying? 15 points is standard for a power weapon, 25 for a fist, IIRC. 15 and 25 are the SM price where you have ws4, S4, and I4. On a guardsmen it was and should be 10 and 15. Honestly at 10 and 15 almost no one takes them cause guardsmen cant fight their way out of a paper bag. Increasing the price will make for a totally useless upgrade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3634530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Hey apart from the Scions and Taurox, there's still supposed to be a new IG Codex sometime in the next couple of weeks that nobody has heard anything about right? Like we don't have a clue as to what is in it or how different it is going to be? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3634548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 So excuse my ignorance here but it mentions both a Hellgun as basic and the ability to take an overcharges las gun...so what's the difference? I know what the Hellgun profile is, but I thought that they were pretty much just that, overcharged las guns. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3634572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 What are they paying? 15 points is standard for a power weapon, 25 for a fist, IIRC. 15 and 25 are the SM price where you have ws4, S4, and I4. On a guardsmen it was and should be 10 and 15. Honestly at 10 and 15 almost no one takes them cause guardsmen cant fight their way out of a paper bag. Increasing the price will make for a totally useless upgrade. Also the Sisters price. WEll, we don't get power fists, but we pay 15 points for power weapons on WS3 S3 models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3634583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 So excuse my ignorance here but it mentions both a Hellgun as basic and the ability to take an overcharges las gun...so what's the difference? I know what the Hellgun profile is, but I thought that they were pretty much just that, overcharged las guns. I don't know if you'd call a hellgun an overcharged las. It's just a bit heftier and hooked up to a much stronger power pack. An overcharged lasgun might just be a modified lasgun in terms of fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3634631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kierdale Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I see the storm trooper command squad has a medpack at half the price it costs a PCS or CCS. That's good news. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3634645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 What are they paying? 15 points is standard for a power weapon, 25 for a fist, IIRC. 15 and 25 are the SM price where you have ws4, S4, and I4. On a guardsmen it was and should be 10 and 15. Honestly at 10 and 15 almost no one takes them cause guardsmen cant fight their way out of a paper bag. Increasing the price will make for a totally useless upgrade. Also the Sisters price. WEll, we don't get power fists, but we pay 15 points for power weapons on WS3 S3 models. It's true...we don't get power fists...we get eviscerators for five points more, or for free on 14 point models. And the power weapons are available on celestians and seraphim with WS4, which isn't that big a deal on the damage dealing end (WS4 only improves your chance to hit against WS3 and worse, at which point the fact that it's a power weapon probably isn't very significant anyway!). They're also offered (free-in pairs!) on cultists, who are WS5 and S4, both of which are hugely significant, since most power-armored foes will be WS4. Finally, power swords combine well with most acts of faith (hand of the emperor, the passion, the emperor's deliverance, and light of the emperor), not to mention the hymn righteousness of the emperor. I'd say we have far less to complain about than the guard! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3635403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 For my part, I haven't found 10 pt power weapons or 15 pt power fists to be a bad deal at all, but on the other hand I've mostly played against xenos scum (Eldar). A Company Commander with a power sword is actually pretty potent against Eldar provided you don't send him against a dedicated close combat unit like Scorpions. Kilofix makes a good point though. No rumours whatsoever about what's coming down the pike for the Imperial Guard. We know its coming given the new Ogryn model leaks. I wonder if GW purposely allowed the Scion stuff to get leaked to divert attention? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3635451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypherthefallenangel Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Well from what we've seen of the scions. It would be safe to say orders are still in but they may change in what they do. Vehicle equipment will stay the same. What im curious about is Besides the Bullgryn and crapbox ( :) ) is there going to be anything new that we haven't seen yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3635569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kierdale Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 The more leaked images I see of the Taurox, the more I like it (but for the mounting of those low, rear autocannons). The Prime doesn't seem to have any rule allowing orders to be issued from it though: I'm glad they haven't taken that away from the Chimera (assuming they haven't taken that away from the Chimera!). A fast command vehicle would tactically have been nice, but I'll stick with my Chimera for my CCS thankyouverymuch. A bit concerned that only the Scion sergeant has grenades. Surely a typo...? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3635656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Hopefully, I'm still on the fence about the Taurox. I'm liking the model more, but the rumoured rules are frankly difficult to understand. What merits of a weakly armoured gun platform are there? You could spend the points on some nice guns for it only to make it more of a target and with such poor armour it won't last long. I'm wondering how I can justify using it over a Chimera? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3635870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead01 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Hopefully, I'm still on the fence about the Taurox. I'm liking the model more, but the rumoured rules are frankly difficult to understand. What merits of a weakly armoured gun platform are there? You could spend the points on some nice guns for it only to make it more of a target and with such poor armour it won't last long. I'm wondering how I can justify using it over a Chimera? That's an interesting question. I haven't found myself concerned about the Taurox's AV at all. I find myself more interested in the weapons options. The chain gun seems to have the torrent rule, which might make it a very strong harsh weapon. The cannon being an Autto Cannon with a blast sound fantastic too. I would say the lower a units BS the more blast weapons they should have! ( and we're lucky that the Green Skins don't have more!) When thinking about how I will use a Taurox I keep thinking about Chimeras in front to form a line with several Taurox behind shooting over the top, I think they stand taller then the Chimera. And I would picket LRBT in front of all that. But their are a lot of unknowns still. The only reason I can see the Taurox being so light would be, maybe they are too good at a higher AV? or maybe the new Codex would have been too strong, That and their not tanks. Time will tell. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3635943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I wasn't complaining, I was saying it was standard, yeesh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3635982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Hopefully, I'm still on the fence about the Taurox. I'm liking the model more, but the rumoured rules are frankly difficult to understand. What merits of a weakly armoured gun platform are there? You could spend the points on some nice guns for it only to make it more of a target and with such poor armour it won't last long. I'm wondering how I can justify using it over a Chimera?That's an interesting question. I haven't found myself concerned about the Taurox's AV at all. I find myself more interested in the weapons options. The chain gun seems to have the torrent rule, which might make it a very strong harsh weapon. The cannon being an Autto Cannon with a blast sound fantastic too. I would say the lower a units BS the more blast weapons they should have! ( and we're lucky that the Green Skins don't have more!) When thinking about how I will use a Taurox I keep thinking about Chimeras in front to form a line with several Taurox behind shooting over the top, I think they stand taller then the Chimera. And I would picket LRBT in front of all that. But their are a lot of unknowns still. The only reason I can see the Taurox being so light would be, maybe they are too good at a higher AV? or maybe the new Codex would have been too strong, That and their not tanks. Time will tell. I feel it isn't quite balanced well. It has plenty of fire power which is good, but that attracts attention. Your opponent would have to be quite mad to let it fire away with impunity and to be unable to take out a vehicle that is less tough than a Rhino... It feels like a hybrid of a Razorback and Chimera, a mix I'm unsure about especially for the points when you factor in the weapon upgrades. I want to like the model and use it, but I'll probably wait to see what everyone comes back with before deciding. Maybe it has a place in highly mechanised lists to benefit from saturation and protection from other vehicles (I think your Chimera wall might work well), but in such a case most would already have the Chimeras? Maybe it works better as part of a Scion army somehow and extending it to standard squads was just a way to try and sell more and I'm over thinking this, but at the moment I'm not convinced that it's a good addition to my army or that I even need it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3636078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead01 Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I do understand your Concerns. I can agree to some of them as well. Another though I have would just be about army building. Thats where I make my money (Not literally) But I will look at the cost of squad Heavy weapons vs how effective I find them. dropping some will find my points for the possible Taruox in mass. ( 3 or 4 of them maybe.) My point is they can move and shoot at full BS not snap fire. In addition to that I would leave them in reserve and let a platoon in them show up after turn one, the enemy having moved from cover or advancing with confidence. I draw them in and paste them. (Not fool proof, I also prefer to go second.) I am interested to see that cannon in action! I love frag missiles But this cannon excites me! so many wounds to save! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3636101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 That's one of the big problems with this, it's part of a new army and we have no idea how that works! Makes it very hard to imagine using it with so little context, so all we have to go on is the current Guard codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3636180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I am amused by the mental image of a Space Marine army with a Scion detachment... "Sir, we're pinned down!" "Stand firm, brother. Our reinforcements are en route!" "Reinforcements? We're the only Astartes on this world! Who could reinforce us in time?!" "It's... them. The Tempestus Scions." "..." "..." All Marines present burst into laughter at the idea of being rescued by a bunch of humans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3636198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I am amused by the mental image of a Space Marine army with a Scion detachment... "Sir, we're pinned down!" "Stand firm, brother. Our reinforcements are en route!" "Reinforcements? We're the only Astartes on this world! Who could reinforce us in time?!" "It's... them. The Tempestus Scions." "..." "..." All Marines present burst into laughter at the idea of being rescued by a bunch of humans. Shouldn't have been pinned down like a bunch of super-human pansies then. One of the posts on faeit, in the comments a guy posted some more scans of the codex (now removed). One of the write ups about the Scion officer mentions that First Rank/Second Rank works on Hot-shot lasguns. Then there's a little designer note talking about the fact that they know that the current wording doesn't work that way, but that GW suggests that you start using it that way, as things might change soon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3636314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Uncommon sense? From GW? I'll believe it when I see it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3636430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Preorders are up! http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCatsLarge.jsp?catId=cat440160a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k Things to note: - Militarum Tempestus is NOT a supplement, but a stand-alone codex, with limited units and lots of fluff, like the Knights. - Militarum Tempestus also seems to be an online-only purchasable book. Odd. - Looks like they'll only have access to stormtroopers/scions, commissars, taurox, and valkyries. - C:IN webpage has had all stormtrooper/scion stuff removed. No more ST in the IG book? - C:IN now has Techpriests in the Elites slot. Hope they don't take up a slot now... - C:IN Troops page sees all of the metal regiments return! Even the Vostroyans are back...hope you didn't pay too much when they "dumped" the minis. As for models: - BEAUTIFUL. ALL OF THEM. - The Taurox treads can so very easily be replaced by wheels. Love it. - The body-mounted guns are terrible; bad LoS (22.5 degrees!), among other things, makes me want to mount them elsewhere. - Full interior on the Taurox! - Painted green, it looks teh awesomez. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3636502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I don't know ... FRFSRF on hotshot lasguns might almost be too good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3636505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idlem Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 You don't need your Lasguns to pivot Seahawk. An Imperial Guardsman is expected to only march/drive FORWARD. Can't wait for some of these guys. I have my Kasrkin already but a command box might make my Platoon Command Squad look a lot more their role. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/279538-cig-rumours/page/19/#findComment-3636521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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