What 2014 will bring

[ElectricPaladin]

Another thing I'm hoping for is a return to more randomness in the death company. Given the randomness that GW has added back into things like the Chaos Marines and Chaos Daemons codices, I think this might be a fruitful hope. It's always struck me as a weird disconnect that in the fluff, the death company is a thing that happens to some portion of your force, while on the tabletop, it's a thing you plan for and build your list around. It's weird.

[Memento Of Prospero]

See I disagree with that. Blood angels as inspected on the eve of battle. Not when the drop pods touchdown do we realise we have a liability, and have time to paint his armour and reassing him them to DC.

[Blindhamster]

I'm taking back my view of Init 6 AP2 axe + Eternal Warrior being overpowered... it would simply make Dante Viable. 

 

A friend of mine went through the simple maths vs a few other characters and as it stands Dante consistently loses, even with init 6 he doesn't tend to win vs anyone with the ability to instant death him, despite striking first... this is because vs an 'equal' he hits for half the attacks (so probably 3 hits assuming he charged) and will obviously wound with 2 or perhaps 3 of those depending on the character, but most characters save vs this on a 4+ meaning against other CC characters Dante still fails to even take half of their wounds, and then promptly dies to the rebutal. 

 

the other reason it wouldn't be unreasonable is that Codex marines can do it by comboing the shield and sword relics quite happily.

 

Ideally therefore I think Dante would be best served by losing the current deathmask rules (which are really silly) and gaining something else, perhaps a return of his preferred enemy bubble from the pdf codex, obviously retain the leadership test same as any other deathmask. His no scatter rule will undoubtedly become his warlord trait instead, then grant him eternal warrior and make the Axe Mortalis a strike at init axe.

 

He may end up needing a small price increase from the above, but he'd become pretty viable as a melee character (unable to instant death most enemies, but also able to avoid it himself), and between granting some special rule to nearby units and his warlord trait would give a decent depiction of a strategist as well.

[SnorriSnorrison]

The mask might need a different rule, but I think it should stay. It has been part of Dante's equipment for a long time now, and it's on his model.

 

Snorri

[Chaplain Admetus]

The most hated thing about Dante, in my experience, is the fact that he just randomly turns up and oogy-boogies an opposing character and there's sod-all they can do about it. It doesn't even make all that sense fluff-wise, either. Give him a standard Death Mask, with whatever that entails, maybe -1 leadership if it's a special mask. I'm not overly fussed about EW, though I would like the axe to swing at initiative. The fact that he normally achieves mutually-assured-destruction with a scout sergeant with a power fist is silly. I'd rather see other aspects of him focussed on in-game - even in the fluff Dante's never been a legendary fighter who wanders in, kicks seven different kinds of xenos posterior on his own, and considers it a wasted day if he hasn't beasted a carnifex one-on-one before breakfast. He's known across the imperium as one of, if not the, greatest strategic commanders that it has to offer.

 

If I was in charge of re-hashing Dante, I'd keep his statline the same as a chapter master. Give him an I6 master-crafted axe as it's a chapter relic. Take away that stupid hex he gives to opposing characters. And I'd give him special rules that work on a more command level - manipulation of reserves, etc. Give him the option of choosing a Warlord Trait to represent his nature and ability to adapt on the fly. Maybe something like: Seen It All - Over the course of a millennium, Dante has faced countless foes and learned their tactics. Dante and his unit have the Preferred Enemy special rule. 

[Blindhamster]

Yeah, my suggestion was to just have him have a regular death mask, or as suggested a deathmask with an additional leadership penalty, or even a disclaimer that it works vs fearless enemies (the last would be particularly cool tbh)

 

EW doesn't make him a close combat baddass, it gives him the chance to survive things, these days the amount of weapons capable of causing instant death is insane, couple that with his status as the oldest living (loyalist) space marine and it certainly makes sense. 

 

Also keep in mind that the Chapter Master of an Astartes Chapter is supposed to be the chapters greatest warrior. 

 

His statline as is is fine, it's the same as a chapter master +1 initiative. They could alternatively just admit that the bit of fluff implies he got a blessing from the sanguinor as a sergeant and buff the relevant stats, but I'm hoping that that changes entirely anyway and we get an upgrade sergeant for a squad of some kind anyway...

 

Having him grant preferred enemy is pretty cool as it's something he's previously granted and works nicely as him either a) providing tactical insight or b) providing inspiration (his fluff has always had him lead from the front)

 

But definitely, he badly needs to strike at init and to lose the stupid voodoo mask, if nothing else.

 

likewise deathcompany tycho and mephiston need to regain Independant character (the sanguinor would make more sense as an FMC)

[Hyperion]

The most hated thing about Dante, in my experience, is the fact that he just randomly turns up and oogy-boogies an opposing character and there's sod-all they can do about it. It doesn't even make all that sense fluff-wise, either. Give him a standard Death Mask, with whatever that entails, maybe -1 leadership if it's a special mask. I'm not overly fussed about EW, though I would like the axe to swing at initiative. The fact that he normally achieves mutually-assured-destruction with a scout sergeant with a power fist is silly. I'd rather see other aspects of him focussed on in-game - even in the fluff Dante's never been a legendary fighter who wanders in, kicks seven different kinds of xenos posterior on his own, and considers it a wasted day if he hasn't beasted a carnifex one-on-one before breakfast. He's known across the imperium as one of, if not the, greatest strategic commanders that it has to offer.

 

If I was in charge of re-hashing Dante, I'd keep his statline the same as a chapter master. Give him an I6 master-crafted axe as it's a chapter relic. Take away that stupid hex he gives to opposing characters. And I'd give him special rules that work on a more command level - manipulation of reserves, etc. Give him the option of choosing a Warlord Trait to represent his nature and ability to adapt on the fly. Maybe something like: Seen It All - Over the course of a millennium, Dante has faced countless foes and learned their tactics. Dante and his unit have the Preferred Enemy special rule. 

 

The Warlord Trait should be called 'Bought the T-Shirt'! :)

[ElectricPaladin]

Maybe Dante could have one of those "tactical masters" Warlord powers where he gets two Warlord Traits, or gets to roll twice and pick one, or just gets to pick one, or has a special badass Warlord Trait. It would make sense for the oldest living space marine to be a tactical badass.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Maybe Dante could have one of those "tactical masters" Warlord powers where he gets two Warlord Traits, or gets to roll twice and pick one, or just gets to pick one, or has a special badass Warlord Trait. It would make sense for the oldest living space marine to be a tactical badass.

 

Either that, or he knows damn well how to get someone else to bite the bullet in his stead. Mmm Perhaps if we take of the mask, CIAPHAS CAIN WILL BE REVEALED!

 

Screw the mysteries of the Emperor, this would be a shocker.

[thebymster]

But I love rocking up and asking what ICs are in your army?- well now he's a little bit worse!

Its such a psychological advantage.

I won last night with Dante vs Calgar and termis and centurions and land raider and Raven. But I did HAVE to keep Dante away from calgar!

[Chaplain Admetus]

There's also the possibility that your opponent has no ICs in their army though. Daemon armies with no heralds are relatively common, BA armies with Meph as the only character, SW led by Bjorn (admittedly this one I've yet to see), IG with just a command platoon, a lot of nid builds... there's no guarantee there'll be a target. Where he's at his most potent is against a psyker-led army, especially where a librarian or spiritseer is the warlord - I've done that before against a vanilla marine force, as a single 1/1 or 6/6 on the psychic test is an instant Slay the Warlord point. Maximum beardy points if you take a librarian of your own as warlord, meaning you can send Dante off to axe things in the face with impunity and not care if he gets killed.

[micahwc]

I want a special rule regarding death company. Either you lose a victory point if there are any living left at the end of the game, or you gain a victory point if they are all dead at the end of the game.

[Durundal]

Give Dante, Gabe's ferocious instincts

[thebymster]

 Maximum beardy points if you take a librarian of your own as warlord, meaning you can send Dante off to axe things in the face with impunity and not care if he gets killed.

 

 

Ha Ha,

 

Yeah, I'm a bit hooked on taking a Xenos =][= with conversion beamer as WL, so either Dante or Mephi can run around taking the flack, while =][= hangs out with either Long Fangs or BA Tac sqd with Las cann, sometimes even in bastion! > soz diversion!

 

I usually see Dante as leader of a suiside mission, its that Tactical Precision that does it.

[knife&fork]

I want a special rule regarding death company. Either you lose a victory point if there are any living left at the end of the game, or you gain a victory point if they are all dead at the end of the game.

 

You'd have to make the minimum squad size 10 or that would be abused a lot. 

[thebymster]

 

 

 

I want a special rule regarding death company. Either you lose a victory point if there are any living left at the end of the game, or you gain a victory point if they are all dead at the end of the game.

You'd have to make the minimum squad size 10 or that would be abused a lot.

Bit like Lone Wolf?

What about D.Co. dreads? And Astorath?

 

Squad of 10 should come put of that with a positive score, live or die. But the points cost implication would Price them out for me! The money cost would price them in for GW!

[knife&fork]

Are you saying that 10 DC is a lot of DC? 

[thebymster]

I like a mobile army. Buying all those jump packs for DC restricts how many non scoring guys I'll put on the table!

It's a lot for what I'm used to! Does that make me unworthy?

Never say never though!

[knife&fork]

I kinda doubt DC jump packs will as overpriced in the next codex. Right now they cost so much that I didn't even consider them an option, I just assumed we were talking about mechanized DC.

 

I do have enough DC models to make an entire DC army so I sincerely hope the option to take plenty of them remains in the next ed. If not by using the main codex then at least as a supplement. 

[thebymster]

I only been collecting BA for 12 months. I'd like To try DC army... It's only got one tactic / objective- but that's why I like orks too- kill kill kill!!

[ElectricPaladin]

I like beating face as much as the next guy, but I think that an all Death Company list would be seriously boring to play. Plus, having a fast and mobile unit you can use to threaten to score with can do a lot to influence your opponent's actions, even if you know full well that its chances of surviving the battle are slim. I've won using that strategy before.

[Jolemai]

I run a DC list at 1250 points and it plays very different from my other lists. It's not as one dimensional as it seems and is quite refreshing to think in a different way.

[Chaplain Admetus]

Here's an idea... our elites slot is already VERY cluttered, especially if Vanguard get the boot to there from fast attack. What I propose is the moving to there of the Sanguinary Priests, which also gives us the ability to run an apothecary commander (I miss this as a throwback to 3rd edition). I envisage this working in a similar way to Dark Eldar Haemonculi, where you can take 1-3 of the base model per slot, exactly as ours work now, with the option of upgrading one to be a Sanguinary High Priest (equivalent to a Master Haemonculus), gaining an improved statline. Corbulo could also be moved back to his own unique HQ slot. The DE codex proves that this can be done and made to work successfully, and it's something I could feasibly see happening. Any thoughts?

[thebymster]

Here's an idea... our elites slot is already VERY cluttered, especially if Vanguard get the boot to there from fast attack. What I propose is the moving to there of the Sanguinary Priests, which also gives us the ability to run an apothecary commander (I miss this as a throwback to 3rd edition). I envisage this working in a similar way to Dark Eldar Haemonculi, where you can take 1-3 of the base model per slot, exactly as ours work now, with the option of upgrading one to be a Sanguinary High Priest (equivalent to a Master Haemonculus), gaining an improved statline. Corbulo could also be moved back to his own unique HQ slot. The DE codex proves that this can be done and made to work successfully, and it's something I could feasibly see happening. Any thoughts?

 

But I like running 2 libs and curbulo!

I don't know about DE shenanigans but how about going the other way, like orks and wolves (oh I now see the error of thinking that way - they are both about to be changed!) where elites can become troops / troops become priests!? the honour guard has novitiate, maybe that could be jigged around to make it useful / affordable?

Havingover from wolves I find it hard enough already to have so many HQ to choose from but can only (afford to) take 2!

With fnp nerffed, let's just get the cost of priests down! But I do like the idea of an option to create High Priest!

[Chaplain Admetus]

I'm thinking that Vanguard are all but guaranteed to move to elites, which gives us Sternguard, Vanguard, Priests, Furioso (2 variants), Chaplain, Sanguinary Guard, Tactical Terminators, Assault Terminators all in one place, and that needs freed up slightly. Though the DE haemonculi aren't -exactly- the same as they unlock alternative army builds (moving a specific elite choice to troops), it seems like the best example of a working model.

 

I wouldn't mind just seeing "Sanguinary High Priest" make a return in the HQ slot as an option though. Bump his statline, give him a second wound (maybe even a third), and give his FnP a boost to 4+. Maybe even a blanket boost to the Blood Chalice - 4+ FnP to the bearer's unit, 5+ to nearby units.