++ AUGUSTUS b'RAASS ++ pre-heresy BRASS SCORPION p.247

[Knight of the Raven]

Psst. Psst. Psssssst. Pssssssssssssst. Update the title.

 

I knew some people considered land speeders to be flying coffins, but these actually look like flying coffins.

 

I'm intrigued.

[Eldrick Shadowblade]

Really love this thread. The titan is impressive! Going to totally steal your idea for rhino bases, too!

[Augustus b'Raass]

Replies:

 

Absolutely stunning stuff mate, quick question for you though-- what are you planning to do with the original metal land speeder torsos?

Thanks mate! I don't know exactly what I'm going to do with them. Any suggestions? Or are you interested in them? (Couldn't find the fourth one...)

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/mkruijff/temporary_zps06a44344.jpg

 

Awesome love where the other Contemptor is going and the Scimitar touches are cool, brave using the old land speeders though surprised everyone fitted in lol

Cheers mate. The contemptor is on hold until the speeders and the jetbike are finished though. 

 

Psst. Psst. Psssssst. Pssssssssssssst. Update the title.

I knew some people considered land speeders to be flying coffins, but these actually look like flying coffins.

I'm intrigued.

A thanks for remidning me. Done. I have no idea how they play actually. The last time I fought against them was in 3^rd and then they where REALLY good. Damned pop up attacks. 

 

Really love this thread. The titan is impressive! Going to totally steal your idea for rhino bases, too!

Thank you Eldrick! And totally go for the vehicle base thing. It makes craters so much easier 

[Fracture]

Speeders are coming along nicely. Does show off how larger models are now compared to 15-20 years ago.

[Augustus b'Raass]

Finished all the crew. I used grey stuff - milliput mixture for extra toughness. Though about adding chainblade attachements to the horizontal stabilizer fins... ultimately decided against it...

 

Only fleshy trophies to do, but I ran out of green stuff! Local store has no GF9 tubes left and I refuse to get the GW one as they are semi-premixed where they touch - which leads to irregularities. Such a stupid method packaging method. "Hey, this stuff reacts when mixed - let's package the two components so they're touching." Idiots. Anyway, have to wait a week until local store gets new stock. Guess I'll be working on the sorcerer on jetbike! 

 

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/mkruijff/temporary_zps08034bf6.jpg

 

Feedback welcome as always! 

[MrBear]

That's a good use way to update those old speeders, the pilots wielding weapons might not be the most practical thing but it sure looks cool. Kind of scratching my head regarding the old torsos though, can't really see what they could be used for since they pretty much only fit their original purpose.  As pilots in another flyer perhaps but the not many of those in a CSM army...

[Augustus b'Raass]

So now that my speeders are almost finished I continued work on the Sorcerer on Jetbike (Count-as Disc of Tzeentch).

 

I added the Night Lords symbol, magnetized the weapon in front (no idea what it is meant to represent - the others are obviously a Volkite Cavarin, a Heavy Bolter and a Plasma Cannon. I guess it could be a multi melta, but it lacks all obvious design clues that Melta Weapons usually have. Anyway it could pass as an elaborate bolter or even a Burning Brand of Skalathrax) and I did the sorcerer driver. I'm a little disappointed there's no room for a backback as I would have liked to give him a sorcerer's backback, but oh well. I wanted to give this model a kind of 'cavalry feel', so with a lance or spear, or something. Then I remembered Sevatar referring to his chainglaive as a spear and hey ho the idea for the current weapon was born. Hope you like it.

 

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/mkruijff/temporary_zpsb1930537.jpg

 

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/mkruijff/temporary_zps7b7cac6f.jpg

 

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/mkruijff/temporary_zps58f51f3b.jpg

 

 

That's a good use way to update those old speeders, the pilots wielding weapons might not be the most practical thing but it sure looks cool. Kind of scratching my head regarding the old torsos though, can't really see what they could be used for since they pretty much only fit their original purpose.  As pilots in another flyer perhaps but the not many of those in a CSM army...

Practicality is for regular humans. Space Marines just fly by and knock your face off with a morning star. I altered the arm holding it - hope you can see it on last pic above. 
About the torso - I noted that the one with the helmet is looking down. Which made me have the idea of sculpting him in a barrel of goo or acid or something! Might be a nice objective marker 

[daemonclaw]

 

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/mkruijff/temporary_zpsb1930537.jpg

 

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/mkruijff/temporary_zps7b7cac6f.jpg

 

now that there is DA PIMP DADDY

[JeffTibbetts]

That's def a multi-melta, by the way. FW melta weapons are an update of the oldest RT era ones, and those funny little fins are how the barrels look.

[Augustus b'Raass]

now that there is DA PIMP DADDY

Yeah he's pretty fly for a pale guy. 

 

That's def a multi-melta, by the way. FW melta weapons are an update of the oldest RT era ones, and those funny little fins are how the barrels look.

Ah cheers, I thought as much. I'm not very knowledgeable about the HH weapons. I hope Semper will allow me to field it as a burning brand though 

[November]

Great as usual - the old school speeders will look excellent in your colours.

[Knight of the Raven]

Dear god, that jetbike is brutal.

[Augustus b'Raass]

I have a fairly technical two-part question. I don't own a copy of 7th yet. So I'll just put this out here. 

 

Could anyone check and answer the following questions? 

1. About different kinds of Power Weapon (sword/axe/maul/lance). Specifically: does a Power Lance still have the following characteristicsS+1/User and AP3/4 (two sets, the first used on the turn of charging, the second in all other instances ?
2. About Force Weapons. Has the rule for 'Unusual Force Weapons' changed in any way? In 6th, it said about unusual force weapons: "If a Force Weapon has its own unique close combat rules, treat it as an AP3 Melee Weapon with the additional rules and characteristics presented in its entry"

Why I am asking this, is because the combination of these two 6th edition rules combined allowed for Force Lances with a S+1 bonus for charging, but which are always AP3.

 

If this is still the case in 7th, my Sorcerer on Jetbike (Disc of Tzeentch counts-as, which I will be including in my fifth vow) will get a Force Lance so it can hunt huge low-initiative models like Carnifexes, Riptides and the like, Instant Death-ing them in the first round of combat. If it isn't, I'll just give it a generic Chainglaive.

 

  

 

With Lance:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/mkruijff/temporary_zpsc28241aa.jpg

 

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/mkruijff/temporary_zps0e29ec77.jpg

 

With Chainglaive

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/mkruijff/temporary_zps7b7cac6f.jpg

 

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/mkruijff/temporary_zpsb1930537.jpg

 

Thanks guys!

 

 

Great as usual - the old school speeders will look excellent in your colours.

Cheers mate! I've gotten the go-ahead to field them in the ETL, so I be sure to check 'm out when they're finished.

 

Dear god, that jetbike is brutal.

Cheers! I hope maybe you can answer my above question?

Edited June 26, 2014 by Augustus b'Raass

[Knight of the Raven]

Unfortunately I can't, since I didn't buy 7th Edition (or 6th, for that matter) and I don't intend to.

 

I guess you could ask in OFFICIAL RULES, if a little bit of information such as this isn't against the forum rules.

[Yogi]

Rules wise I have no idea. But I will say the lance looks far cooler to my eyes. I'm not a huge fan of the chainglave. 

 

Your landspeeders are very impressive, the pilots leaning out of their sky chariot to crack some skulls is very appropriate. 

 

Death to the False Emperor.

[Yogi]

I looked up your rule question.

 

1. The lance is the same.

 

2. "Unusual Force Weapons

Many models have unusual force weapons that have one or more unique rules.

If a force weapon has its own unique close combat rules, treat it as an AP3

Melee weapon with the additional rules and characteristics presented in its

entry." From 7th ed.

[Teetengee]

I always considered that force lances would not get the +1 str either, but you bring up an interesting point about them being force power lances. In that case I would think that the special rules of the lance supersede the special rules of the unusual force weapon rule (as some unusual force weapons have unusual APs). i.e. that a force lance functions exactly like a power lance but with the force rule. (That is how I would let anyone play against me with it at the very least.).

 

Edit: If a lance is not ap 4 after the charge but still gets the +1 str during the charge, then a nemesis force hammer is ap3. I don't think the wording allows for one rule without the other.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Teetengee

[Yogi]

Yeah I read further, 

 

"Types of Force Weapon

Force weapons come in all shapes and sizes, but for the purposes of our game,

we have three simple categories: force axes, force staves and force swords.

If a model’s wargear says it has a force weapon that has no further special

rules, look at the model to tell which type of force weapon it has: if it’s a sword

or dagger, it’s a force sword; if it’s an axe or halberd, it’s a force axe; if it’s a blunt weapon like a staff or mace, it’s a force stave."

 

I don't know if you can game it like that.

[Teetengee]

I think RAW, since it is not purchased as a force weapon with any unique rules (just force weapon) it does not qualify for the unusual force weapon distinction and then must be one of the three options provided (probably staff or axe).

[Augustus b'Raass]

Thanks everyone for the replies. 

 

Yogi. I don't see the Official Rules forum anywhere and seeing as this question is specifically about something to do with modelling, I didn't see a problem with asking it in my WIP 

 

Anyway, some interesting answers here. 

 

Yogi, thanks for clearing that up and taking the time to write all the rules down! I'm not convinced by your argument though... The fact that it isn't either one of the given options under Force Weapons is exactly why they put in the rule of the 'unusual force weapons'. It's obviously not a sword, axe or stave, but a lance. The nasty thing about this is that they wrote four stats for power weapons and only three for force weapons, which are the same as the power weapon equivalents except for the force rule. The problem wouldn't have been there if they'd just copied the lance power weapon rule into the force section. They choose to not do that, so now, the way I read it, the lance force weapon counts as an 'unusual force weapon' - which is an AP 3 melee weapon with the 'additional' rules and characteristics for the power weapon. The fact that they specifically state the AP value of the force weapon suggests to me that they mean that the AP for the unusual force weapon is set at 3 and the other 'i.e.'additonal'' characteristics come from the melee weapon that it represents, in this case a lance.

 

Thank you too, Teetengee, for taking the trouble in looking it up! I'm sorry to say I don't agree with your analysis either... I don't think there's any superseeding of the AP value  - otherwise why would they have specifically stated it is AP3 for unusual force weapons? On the other hand, you make an interesting point about the Nemesis Force Hammer. But that point is moot because the rules in Codex Grey Knights specifically state that Nemesis Force Weapons uses the rules for Thunder Hammers (p.54). 

I've always played with the rule that specificity always supersedes generality in rules. I think I'm going to ask GW for a general ruling on this, 'cause it is a weird situation.

 

In any case, I'm going for the force lance. Rule of cool. 

 

 

 

[Voxxel]

Looking forward to the painted landspeeders! Great looking models!

[Yogi]

 

 

 

Yogi. I don't see the Official Rules forum anywhere and seeing as this question is specifically about something to do with modelling, I didn't see a problem with asking it in my WIP 

 

 

 

 

???

 

I'm cool with everything man. I don't know what I said wrong? This is your thread, your the boss.

 

Stay awesome, Night Lord bro.

 

Lance looks cooler anyways.

[Augustus b'Raass]

Ok update on the Sorrcerer on Jetbike. I made the blades of the jetbike to be power blades... Muhaha

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/mkruijff/temporary_zpsd09d333f.jpg

 

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/mkruijff/temporary_zps41a67513.jpg

 

And a very much needed reply to Yogi:

 

Yogi. I don't see the Official Rules forum anywhere and seeing as this question is specifically about something to do with modelling, I didn't see a problem with asking it in my WIP 

??? I'm cool with everything man. I don't know what I said wrong? This is your thread, your the boss.

Stay awesome, Night Lord bro.

Lance looks cooler anyways.

Oh crap. Yogi, my apologies! Total miscommunication from my end. That part of the message was not directed to you, but to Knight of the Raven, who said:

I guess you could ask in OFFICIAL RULES, if a little bit of information such as this isn't against the forum rules.

and the reply was directed in response to his suggestion. I have jumbled the message around a lot, and I see now I left your name and a period before my answer, which makes me sound super annoyed - which I totally wasn't! Sorry bro! All's good - I actually very much appreciated your responses!

 

And you were right!  I went to my local GW shop and posed the question there. We meticulously read all the rules, as everyone agreed this perceived loop-hole was way too obvious to be reality. We all agreeed that the 'Unusual Weapons' section is meant for weapons of special characters, which have 'additional rules'. For example, the Staff of Ulric in the Space Wolves codex is a staff, but is used as a Strength user power weapon with AP3, plus the extra rules in it's entry. 

 

So my Spear Wielding Sorcerer can use the spear as either of the three stated force weapons... 

[Forté]

Coming on nicely

[Lord of the Cull]

Did you make that spear? if so what bits did you use, or was it whole from another kit? I want one on my bike lord