[HH1.0] Raven Guard Tactics

[Nusquam]

You haven't seen the IW I play against. They have shatter and phosphex mortar batteries supported by tyrants and havocs. All with scanners in overlapping fields. Usually on top of a skyshield with the character that buffs BS. Then he spreads tac marines and medusae around the flanks and blitzes objectives once my pods are down. The only place to drop would be in front of all his interceptor. Unless I wanted to gib a few naked tacs or a rhino way off on the side then be irrelevant. Thats if he isn't using ironfire. Then its sans fort and more bodies. That's the level of castling and prep I face. He is the only person that's ever beat me in 30k.

 

But I have a plan for next time. Infiltrated Praevian with Darkfires to plink his mortars from safety and attempt blinding. Then a typhon comes on from reserves and blasts things. If he gets timid and deploys far back to avoid the typhon then it gives me more room to maneuver. Scorpius for taste.

[Lord Asvaldir]

That sounds like someone who's consistently prepared to face a heavy deep strikers list, hardly the normal IW list. Leviathans are one of the toughest vehicles out there among non LoWs, your opponent is going to need a solid amount of firepower with augury scanners to take out a leviathan within a turn. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

It also sounds like a table without LoS blockers in the middle. Perhaps the most crucial part of a balanced table, a central large LoS blocker splits the table both movement wise and divides fire lanes. Laso important to put ruins/terrain on a diagonal instead of a straight parallel since it really shakes up the concept of lines of fire and castling.

 

I've found that the leviathan needs another threat to work in tandem with it. Have it terrorize the back line and force your opponent to use valuable resources trying to kill it, while having another massively annoying thing march up the table since his heavy weapons can't shoot if they've intercepted. This does usually work better with a Spartan, Knight or primarch with some artillery of your own to provide bonus annoyance, but I've noticed some Legions lean heavily on one concept or play style; Death Guard with Reaping, Night Lords with Terror Assault, Raven Guard with Decapitation Strike. Breaking expectations can be an unpleasant surprise for an opponent who "knows" how a legion plays.

 

Though to be fair, any list with a sky shield sounds like pure cancer.  

[Nusquam]

It was a pretty well thought out and executed list. It could take on anything reliably. Had good AT, anti infantry, AA. The works. Maybe an armored spearhead or Assault Vanguard list could have done some work to it.

 

Ohhh infiltrated destroyers with rad launchers would do some work too... Hmn...

[SkimaskMohawk]

Havocs, even with lascannons are only str 8 against a Flare shield. A good spartan makes those shatter rounds, havocs, and tyrants useless. Also gotta ask how many points you play with for him to cram all that and medusas into his list. If that's the bulk of it then if you counter that then there should be no problem

[Nusquam]

Medusas are barrage so they bypass flareshields.

 

And we play at 2,500+ Usually 3k. You'd be surprised how much you can cram in a list. Shatter QM battery, 3 medusae, and 5 ML Havocs are 900 points. That's at least 1,600 points to put into it. Add 3 10man tacs with voxi in rhinos, 2 augery Apothecaries for the QMs, Vhalen, Siege Breaker, and a Phosphex battery with shatter as well and you're barely over 2k. Two Shatter QM batteries will kill a leviathan from interceptor alone. Then 500-1,000 points to add redundancies. Like a laser vindi squadron. Those things are disgusting. Or Tyrants.

 

Just had a think; The scanner says deployed via deepstrike within 18" you can intercept them. Use infiltrated tacs with a vox and deepstrike out of that range and move into it and loose the gravflux bombard...

[shandwen]

Medusas are barrage so they bypass flareshields.

 

And we play at 2,500+ Usually 3k. You'd be surprised how much you can cram in a list. Shatter QM battery, 3 medusae, and 5 ML Havocs are 900 points. That's at least 1,600 points to put into it. Add 3 10man tacs with voxi in rhinos, 2 augery Apothecaries for the QMs, Vhalen, Siege Breaker, and a Phosphex battery with shatter as well and you're barely over 2k. Two Shatter QM batteries will kill a leviathan from interceptor alone. Then 500-1,000 points to add redundancies. Like a laser vindi squadron. Those things are disgusting. Or Tyrants.

 

Just had a think; The scanner says deployed via deepstrike within 18" you can intercept them. Use infiltrated tacs with a vox and deepstrike out of that range and move into it and loose the gravflux bombard...

Just FYI, Apoths can only join infantry units (i believe), so the QM's will have problems trying to get interceptor. I would recommend a spartan assault with typhon support. Drop a leviathan in a pod as well. Interceptor keeps them from firing next turn, so your spartans will have less fire on them. That with two spartans full of termies pushing forward and punching his face it you should be able to lick him. I would even recommend spamming this in an armored breakthrough list for the preds to plink away at the arty.

[defl0]

Yeah, leviathans with grav bombard eats artillery. Also remember he can't shoot through the floor... So you can drop pod and deploy unit under the platform with relative immunity. 

 

Also remember that with the shields up, they have very limited LOS from inside... So in general, There are some clever ways to deal with lists like that. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

There's actually nothing that limits barrage shooting in 7th ed. You can shoot it from under ruins at units under ruins and it'll core through the building and hit every single model on every floor that was under that template. As for medusas, sure it'll bypass the shield, but on average won't kill your spartan, even with 3 in a squad. And of he's making large squads of quads or medusas, then they're that much easier to kill in one shot. Seriously, get some melta vets and waste those medusas off a deepstrike or eat his phosphex rapiers with a grav bombard

[Nusquam]

I dont run spartans so they're out for my list styles. I own exactly two tanks; a rhino chassis and a typhon. For other players/armies sure, go for it.

 

As for apoths youre right, that was just me spitballing. Clearly I dont play IW I just remember the rules that were thrown against me. He had something that was centurion based probably, it's late my brain is mush. It was probably a MoS with a signum because he was boosting BS skill too. With Vhalen granting rerolls of  1's, one of his batteries was hitting on 2's with rerolls. It was painful.

 

I wish it was that easy to drop melta vets behind the medusaes. But to be within melta range would mean being within 18" of the phosphex rapiers. Which means the vet squad is dead on interceptor. Beyond 18" was off the table so I wouldnt have even been able to plink with S8(9) shots at rear AV. And off to the sides was well within 18" of the rapiers if I would want to hit with 12" melta. Unless I had over 3 units deepstriking in his face he would be able to erase them on my turn.

I wish there was an easier way to convey how prepared and well deployed he is. I get what you all are saying but it wouldn't be that simple. He utilizes every advantage he can get. I'm not trying to be contrary but he's like an actual IW. He thinks like I do and tries to win during deployment. To approach slowly is to feel the wrath of the barrage weapons, to deepstrike without sheer numbers is to fall to interceptor. Then he bullies corridors with rhinos and tacs. They die horribly but they do their duty and stall. I'm not saying its perfect or unbeatable but it is the rock to my normally scissors playstyle. Thats my experience with IW, but obviously YMMV.

 

I do think deepstriking a levy outside the 18" and moving into it to bypass the scanner is good. Same with infiltrated darkfires and rad launchers. Typhon is never bad. With this particular opponent, deepstriking is just going to play into his hand. Which is unfortunate for me because my army usually is about high alpha at close range early. Aircraft would work well if I can chunk the havocs early. The more I think on it the more there are ways to face it on more even ground, but they aren't my usual style. I forgot that drop assault vanguard doesnt force snap shots on interceptor so it's not as good as I thought, but with clever positioning of voxi one could deepstrike 19" away, run in, and then make the 12" jump etc the next turn.

[Nova_chron]

So I'm looking for some advice myself ninjaman and guiltyspark are playing a campaign and I am due up against guilty's 12th legion for the next session. I'm fairly certain his list will look like alot of inducti in land Raiders a praetor with despoiler in a spartan a leviathan in pod with at least one unit of javelin speeders

[SkimaskMohawk]

@nusq a MoS sounds about right and that for sure sounds like a hell of a list to drop into. I get that it's not very raven guardy but a spartan helps so much against the barrage and str 8. You could try a knight magaera or stryrix (or atropos depending on that whole argument) to further soak up some shots onto the Flare shield and invul. If you're dead set on keeping the same pod play style then coming down right outside 18" would be your best bet. Maybe use a damocles for the 24" no scatter bubble and artillery strike?

[Nusquam]

I did try Knights one day, Atrapos, Paladin, Crusader but he change things sup and brought DA Armored assault with laser vindis for daaaaays ha. I'll work on on lists. It's not like I don't have fun, ha.

 

 

So I'm looking for some advice myself ninjaman and guiltyspark are playing a campaign and I am due up against guilty's 12th legion for the next session. I'm fairly certain his list will look like alot of inducti in land Raiders a praetor with despoiler in a spartan a leviathan in pod with at least one unit of javelin speeders

 

I faced a similar list before. I used a podded double grav box dread with a chainfist. I wanted to force him to commit his spartan to it and stall it or try and out run it. He opted for running but it didn't work out. My dread caught up and popped the spartan. Then a pod of seekers and Nex(Back when he wasnt limited to 12 shots) murdered the contents.

Also phosphex rapiers and infiltrated seekers with their AP2 rounds. His podded leviathan will be spooky though. You could counter deepstrike by forcing him to go first and drop the levy against less than optimal targets then drop your own AT behind it. Or even having multiple pods if you know he'll have the one.

[Terminus]

I am still not understanding how quad mortars are getting interceptor.

 

They cannot be joined by Apothecaries, they are not an infantry unit. The only Centurion that had access to an augury scanner is a Forge Lord, who is really wasted babysitting mortars. A master of signal does not have access to an augury scanner. Vhallen also does not have an augury scanner.

 

Sounds like some very selective reading of the rules going on.

[Slips]

Yeah, Augury Scanners only grant interceptor to the unit who actually has the wargear with them, not any unit around them inside the intercept bubble.

[Caillum]

All those points are true, but a Master of Signal has a Cognis Signum, which counts as an augury scanner.

 

I think that is the only way to do it slightly efficiently.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Caillum

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea the signum is great iirc it's one of the many pieces of kit perty has built into his suit.

Yea the signum is great iirc it's one of the many pieces of kit perty has built into his suit.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Man, never noticed that. Unfortunately that means a mortar battery with a MoS can do some serious damage to any deep strikers. 

[Terminus]

Not bad. Curious about attached ICs to artillery, would they be T7 vs enemy attacks (other than for purpose of instant death) so you could use the MoS to tank? ~100+ points for raw support is hefty, interceptor or not.

[Nusquam]

The MoS also get's a d3 orbital bombardment as well. So he not only buffs BS, grants interceptor, blocks infiltrate, he also brings the pain.

[Flint13]

At teh very least he can't boost BS and drop a bombardment in the same turn.

[helterskelter]

Not that it's very RG, if you happened to have a siege breaker this also means 4 to 12 bs5 phosphex small blast. Always fun.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea the MoS could tank in the right armour ; I've thrown Llansahai into a phosphex battery just to give it even more durability in some night lords lists.

[Nusquam]

So Burning of Prospero....

 

Tempted to use custodes rules as Not!ShadowWardens for visual thematics/tie in to the rest of the army. Though Corax and some Custodes did bro up for a while, so it's not a reach to have some custodes. I just like the idea of an entirely black army, visually. But they would offer access to a beatstick CC unit on foot. Which means a better chance to deliver them in one piece via a vehicle. Oh wait, they'll probably be considered allied within the detachment for whatever reason like navigators(which I should use in ZM more often with a fearless command squad). Should ping FW again about Darkwings transporting Dark Furies though, it says it in the rules unit description that they frequently drop Furies into battle and everything. Sigh.

 

I know I'm making a plasma and talon tartaros squad now. Rule of Cool dictates it so. Nothing will beat Death Shroud and Justerian except Custodes, but imagine a unit of tartaros modeled with those wicked curved talons from the Dark Fury set? Delicious. Would probably give the sarge a fist though. Use them in ZM to hunt breacher blobs since I would face IW, IF, and DG regularly.

[Nova_chron]

Nusquam you are thinking along very similar lines to me I do love me some dark furies and they have been like a blender to every unit I've hit with them (no dedicated CC terminators yet) but I do so badly want a unit of deliverers to make my desires of multiple Spartans in an army not exactly what it is.... an addiction to tanks :)