[HH1.0] Sons of Horus Tactica

[AekoldHelbrass]

The cost upgrade for the Banestrike rounds is a little steep, but I prefer them to combo-weapons, especially in the late turns, after the initial opening engagement with my opponent. One-use weapons are not high on my list of preferred points-costs - too many variables in the late game that make them risky.

I can completely agree with that. But hitting on 6 only is way more risky for me. And for some reason I forgot it, but Reavers can take a plasma gun for every 5 bodies, which gives them more punch for 30 points less.

 

So a series of 5-man Terminator squads in Drop Pods was the original idea (hence why I said they were the few troops choices that could weather the storm of incoming fire).

Yes, clearer now. But terminators do not give a good punch, meaning they will be much more effective standing on the table in packs of 10 instead.

 

The odds are favorable (88%) that you will get each of the Masters attached to the Reaver squads on Turn 2.

Yes, that was exactly my point. You're buying double master of signals to arrive on turn 2, which means they cannot guide drop pods arriving on turn 2. And as you said yourself - there is only 12% chance of not arriving during turn 2, which means you'll have no drop pods left after turn 2 to make master of signals useful.

 

Still, it's not insurmountable.  The master is an IC, so he would arrive with one of the squads of Reavers and detach.  Turn 2, they move, he doesn't.  Fire away.

Too many variables, not very hard for your opponent to break that plan. On the other hand, having master of signals deployed during turn 1 somewhere on the table and fire the first turn would be way more useful, and give you a possibility to put a pod nearby.

 

 

 

What always strikes me in SoH, is that how much everyone overestimates banestrike bolters. That's easily the most overestimated weapon in whole HH, even more so than moritat with double plasma. I'm already commited to Orbital Assault list, and I've tried a lot of different combinations, so I know for sure which ones do not work, and there are some things that worked well for me:

 

1. Tactical support in pod, using plasma guns. Yes that will cost A LOT, but nowadays every army has a problem facing 2+, and this unit can wipe out 5-man cataphractii unit during turn 1. That is suicidal unit because enemy will throw everything onto them during his turn.

 

2. Tactical support in pod, using flamers. Very underestimated. Situational unit, they are comparatively cheap (they are really really cheap when comparing to other tactical support options) if your opponent has a closely packed unit you can teach him a good lesson, good placement of templates means that almost every model gets 4-8 hits, and 10-man 3+ squad can be wiped out completely during turn 1. Again, suicidal unit because enemy would be really angry.

 

3. Moritat (double plasma pistol) + minimal Destroyers with 2 phospex bombs, drop pod, nothing else. Give you possibility to hurn terminators even more, costs a ton but usually less killy than 10-man plasma tactical support. Mostly that is fire magnet, because Moritat is so overestimated, and second Phospex bomb draws attention even more.

 

4. Dreadnought with Flamestorm and Heavy Flamer, drop pod. Rules are a bit vague here, looking at book 1 Orbital Assault it looks like you can give a Dreadnought simplest drop pod, no need to give him expensive legion pod. But negotiate that with your opponent first. Try making really long barell for flamestorm cannon, and it will be able to wipe 6-7 models, heavy flamer will try to do the rest but usually not good enough. Giving enemy another fire magnet on the table.

 

5. 10 man strong Cataphractii unit + Primus Medicae in Cataphractii armour, holding objective in your deployment zone fron turn 1 instead of arriving from reserve. Almost guaranteed objective holder and guaranteed that you will not be wiped out from the table on any turn. I usually give them all kinds of weapons, totaling in 400 points, but most important is magnetized hands for autocannons/plasma blasters.

 

 

Other than that list, nothing worked really well so far. Tactical marines are quite expensive for drop pod, their strength is in horde of 20. Reavers with banestrikes are complete failure, cost a metric ton and killing only couple of bodies more than tactical. Reavers with close combat weapons are effective, usually too effective for enemy to try and charge them, so they get shot. I have to try not exiting the pod and have to try dreadclaw, probably that will make them work better. Justaerin are so expensive, I still want to take them, but wasn't able to make them work so far. Contemptors in drop pods are fire magnet, they rarely survive more than 1 turn, when they do they have some punch, and can distract your opponent attention from other incoming drop pods, but still... So yes, I'm still strugling to make pure SoH list work as orbital assault, because 40k can use MSU tactics to minimize my damage, and other legions usually do not see any problems in anything I'm dropping on the table. WE having 80 berzerkers for barealy 1000 points will ignore almost any damage and will make sure I will not be able to shoot with any weapons during next turn, Iron Warriors if the player has enough money can bring 3 squadrons of 3 vehicles each in 1200pts, having enough ordnance and plasma to wipe out anything that will arrive in pods, and there are not enough plasma in pods to do something about it. Probably Deathstorm pod can do something about it, but I haven't tried yet.

[Sanct]

Not having to disembark is crazy..... that would totally change the game and tactic but I need to see concrete evidence of this like kitwulfen said...

 

The 30k forums have a guy who did. You need to log in to see it.

He also put it on the B&C forums here

 

. Tactical support in pod, using plasma guns. Yes that will cost A LOT, but nowadays every army has a problem facing 2+, and this unit can wipe out 5-man cataphractii unit during turn 1. That is suicidal unit because enemy will throw everything onto them during his turn.

 

If you're a fan of these guys have you tried 10 reavers with 2 melta and 8 combi-plasma in a pod?

Edited October 29, 2014 by Sanct

[AekoldHelbrass]

 

. Tactical support in pod, using plasma guns. Yes that will cost A LOT, but nowadays every army has a problem facing 2+, and this unit can wipe out 5-man cataphractii unit during turn 1. That is suicidal unit because enemy will throw everything onto them during his turn.

 

If you're a fan of these guys have you tried 10 reavers with 2 melta and 8 combi-plasma in a pod?

That's great idea, will definitely try it out.

[Pavel Araghast]

. Tactical support in pod, using plasma guns. Yes that will cost A LOT, but nowadays every army has a problem facing 2+, and this unit can wipe out 5-man cataphractii unit during turn 1. That is suicidal unit because enemy will throw everything onto them during his turn.

 

If you're a fan of these guys have you tried 10 reavers with 2 melta and 8 combi-plasma in a pod?

 

 

I'm aimed to try that group of reavers with jumppacks and outflank.

[norngahl]

Hey there. It has been some time someone posted in this thread, but as I recently started SoH, I'd like to have some Input.. Here is what I want to field as a base.

 

Legion Praetor, Paragon Blade, Iron Halo, Digital Lasers, Meltabombs 170

10 Tacticals, CCW, Vexilla, Drop Pod 215

10 Tacticals, CCW, Vexilla, Drop Pod 215

Lightning, TL-Lascannon, 4 Kraken-Penetrator Shells, Servitor 200

Deredeo, Drop Pod 215

Sicaran Battle Tank, HB 155

Sicaran Battle Tank, HB 155

=1325

 

That's my solid base. I prefer tactical flexibility. SoH mean almost guaranteed turn 2 reserves coming in. I like the idea of beeing able to put every unit in reserve to adapt on the enemy armylist and their tactics. I like all comers lists, therefore the ccw on the tacticals.

 

I have enough medium Antitank/transport up to av13, same goes for anti air, for extremly heavy targets or flyer heavy lists i got the lightning. I aim it on any heavy target and it dies. Point. After that, it may get shot to pieces, but if it ripped the enemys heart out, i'm fine with that.

 

I still have nearly 700 points to buy my praetor a bodyguard and a vehicle plus get some other stuff. Still like msu more than putting 400+ points into one unit.

 

ideas?

[depthcharge12]

Take the drop pod off of the Deredeo as it does next to nothing than bring I. Two of your squads first turn.

 

If you're playing SoH I'd recommend playing to their strengths by using large numbers of marines or bulky to gain the additional attacks.

 

If you do stay with the drop pod theme, if almost recommend a kharybdis in this case and have your praetor and his bodyguard pop out and eat stuff. The missile launchers in this case can help pin units down and harass them before charging in.

[norngahl]

Thanks for reply. Thought about the big fat pod as well.. but for nearly the same points i can get a spartan with a hell of durability AND damage output.

 

But then again, the heavy slots are already filled with choices i prefer over all the other due to cost/damage relation.

 

Sure.. taking large groups MIGHT give you an extra attack.. IF you can manage to CHARGE the RIGHT unit. To many ifs. Won't rely on that and base an armylist on that. The only good thing about SoH (ruleswise) is the reserve reroll.

 

The dreadnought drop pod is not soley for bringing the two other pods in. It also offers me to deploy the dreadnought anywhere on the table- even in the enemy flank to shoot side armor, if I wish so. Due to beeing open topped it offers the dreadnought three hp with av12 Protection, while he fires out of it. Even if I drop it into my own deployment zone.. i get extra protection from the pod, meaning the enemy has to dedicade mire AT to get rid of it. And that is beside target saturation.

 

I thought about three possibilitys for the praetor-

 

1. 20 men blob with apothecary as an backfield anchor. Hard to kill, pretty much possible to handle anything on its own except armor. But my list already has alot of AT.

 

2. 9 Veterans with toys in a pod. CC support to eat up resilent units.

 

3. Reavers. Undicided wether 9 in pod or max them out and outflank. Gets expensive pretty quick.

 

 

Or an additional flyer with some nice content? Um..

[Slips]

1. Can the Deredeo even take a Drop Pod to begin with? Its not in its entry: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/D/Deredeo.pdf

[Hesh Kadesh]

Nope.

[blackoption]

Merciless Killers rule gets bonus based on size.  Bulky units include Terminators, Justarin (though they tend to have unwieldy weapons more time than not), Reavers (with Jump Packs) and Assault marines.  Reavers, while the more expensive of the jump pack options, can run in 15 man squads (counts as 30 in terms of Merciless Killers due to Bulky), also get much more flexibility because they can also have bolters.  The assault squads max at out 20 (counts as 40 in terms of Merciless Killers rule due to bulky as well). 

 

So, Unless these squads are also charging jump pack squads or terminators, there is a strong chance that they will effectively outnumber their opponents by sheer mass alone. An extra attack with the reavers brings them up to 3 attacks for the regular guys and 4 for the chieftan (and that is before the charge....  4/5 attacks with a charge).  Either way, I wouldn't knock the effectiveness of merciless killers, especially not with SoH assault troops (while unsurprising, a little unexpected for the Warmaster's own.)

 

I suggest looking at them. You have decent Anti-tank on your list as it is.  Filling out with assault squads could lend you a sledge hammer that most opponents over look in my experience.

Edited March 31, 2015 by blackoption

[norngahl]

Even if you max out the assault squads, at best 20 MF extra attacks result in 1-2 more dead marines. Thats nice if you got it because you got a boot or two more than your enemy, but it's to cost uneffective if you build your units around this rule.

 

Considering the fact I'll face 40k as well, assault marines are one of the last choices I'd take :)

 

Otherwise.. Reavers offer several nice boni over regular assault squads.. so has anyone used them successfully in terms of cost efficiency?

[Ishagu]

Even if you max out the assault squads, at best 20 MF extra attacks result in 1-2 more dead marines. Thats nice if you got it because you got a boot or two more than your enemy, but it's to cost uneffective if you build your units around this rule.

 

Considering the fact I'll face 40k as well, assault marines are one of the last choices I'd take :)

 

Otherwise.. Reavers offer several nice boni over regular assault squads.. so has anyone used them successfully in terms of cost efficiency?

I think they are too expensive for pa troops, and the banestrike upgrade is a little lackluster.

Not as poor as Legion destroyers, mind - They are crazily expensive.

 

Is the Legion Praetor in the above list by himself?

Edited April 1, 2015 by Ishagu

[norngahl]

The list above is my core I definately want to take, so I still got points to spend on a retinue for the praetor. Still unsure what unit would fit best for this task. Maybe someone has a good idea where to put him, as I can't seem to find an obvius unit.

[Ishagu]

Perhaps a small unit of veteran marines in a transport?

[SMcaptainAurelius]

Hi all.

 

So I don't want to be dramatic but this is this worst tactica thread I've read on Bolter and Chainsword. Potentially even on Warseer too. By a mile.

 

There's no unit breakdown or discussion on certain tactics or play styles. It's basically two guys arguing about Horus and the other legions' rules and whether they're better or not.

 

As a new player I'd definitely give this a miss, you're sat on page three of the forum. It's embarrassing.

 

Luckily I'm not a new player but still. Someone had to say it. This is poor form.

 

How about we get some unit breakdowns going or some example lists?

[Ishagu]

Hi all.

 

So I don't want to be dramatic but this is this worst tactica thread I've read on Bolter and Chainsword. Potentially even on Warseer too. By a mile.

 

There's no unit breakdown or discussion on certain tactics or play styles. It's basically two guys arguing about Horus and the other legions' rules and whether they're better or not.

 

As a new player I'd definitely give this a miss, you're sat on page three of the forum. It's embarrassing.

 

Luckily I'm not a new player but still. Someone had to say it. This is poor form.

 

How about we get some unit breakdowns going or some example lists?

Lol this is truth!

[PastelAvenger]

Best thing to do is start again

[Hesh Kadesh]

'speaks truth'

 

!fixes nothing'

 

Good effort bromigo

[SMcaptainAurelius]

Rome wasn't built in a day brosephine.

 

So does anyone agree that to make the Sons of Horus work you need to ground the army in what works for the legions in general?

 

So what works in the legions? Big tactical squads, Praetors with paragon blades, apothecary detachments, legion support squads, contemptors, sicarians and whatever else.

 

What works in the Sons of Horus? I don't know, Reaver attacks squads, Horus. Other stuff debatable.

 

So perhaps we should be talking about building some foundations and then adding a bit of flavour from the SoH choices.

 

Here's an example list that does that.

 

Catulan Reavers

 

Praetor, jump pack, iron halo, digital lasers, paragon blade - 185

14 Reavers, jump packs, 2 power fists - 300

 

The Line

 

2 apothecaries, augery scanners -100

5 command marines, legion standard, Artificer armour, 5 power swords - 190

5 support marines, 4 meltas - 160

15 legionaries, extra blades - 240

15 legionaries, extra blades, vexilla - 250

 

Kingslayers

 

Sicarian Battle Tank, 3 heavy bolters, accelerator autocannon 145

Sicarian Venator xxx

Sicarian Venator xxx

 

2000 points

 

A fairly generic yes but a cool centrepiece unit which themes the army to our favourite legion.

 

So why don't we spark a conversation talking about what makes a solid core to your army and what are the best characterful units to complete the force?

 

Moritats leading destroyers? Outflanking Veteran Squads? Fire Raptor ground attack with drop pod assault?

 

Head above the parapet here brothers so grateful for you to get stuck in.

[depthcharge12]

You guys are so full of bromide that you're getting salty :P

 

See what I did there? Bro jokes, and salt, and .... I'll leave now haha

 

 

There's not much to say other than ganging up on people with large squads. Make use of bulky as much as possible. Justarian just seem so far behind now and still over priced. Horus honestly feels like a crutch too lol.

Edited July 23, 2015 by depthcharge12

[WolfOfHorus]

SoH are a mixed bag, I love em but it doesnt change that. The Legion Rules are fine, but our Terminators are overpriced and we effectively have only one good HQ (Maloghurst) and Reavers, which is the same situation for the Legions in Betrayal.

[Marshal Loss]

Build lists that make use of Merciless Fighters and/or Edge of the Spear or you're getting literally nothing out of the SoH rules. Reavers are absolutely amazing, whether as a despoiler squad or a pseudo assault squad with jump packs. Justaerin look amazing and despite 30,000 attempts to make them viable, the 85 point tax on the first 3 is just too much of a hamstring. Maloghurst is great.

 

Thanks to the advice of Hesh Kadesh, I've fallen in love with Jetbikes when running the Black Reaving and have had a lot of success in a few games over the last week.

[norngahl]

Why does Maloghurst get hyped this much? I mean he makes Reavers troops but is a poor beatstick..

 

A Praetor with IH, PB and DL is nearly the same points and ca make regular Veterans troops, which are effectively the same as reavers, but can choose between sniper, fearless AND outflanking and have boltguns on top for free..

 

I mean you can tool Reavers into any direction (15 men sniping volkite squad!!) But the points to make them hit hard are too much for my taste.. the best options for 40k are the chainaxes, ap4 on a whole squad for 1 point per model is ace! The banestrikes are to expensive for what they do.. assassins eye might be nice for 40k to get rid of special weapons, especially when you buy powerweapons and banestrikes to get rid of fists and grav.. but for the points to make them work better than rehular veterans, you can better get another whirlwind scorpius and nuke them all..

 

So.. I'd take a beatstick praetor and sniping (maybe outflanking when facing a gunline) veterans with free bolters any day over Maloghurst and Reavers..

 

Justaerin are just way overprized. They'd be fine if their number was 5 rsther than 3, but right now, they are only an option for those die hard fluffbunnys..

 

Horus is ace, but I refuse to play primarchs outside of 5000 points.. most games are played at 2k in my area, so he is hardly an interesting option. Don't like herohammer.

 

Our legion rules.. well.. getting reserves in is nice when fielding horus and playing an outflanking army where the elite drops in dreadclaws.. but otherwise.. it enables you to reliably get a flyer in. No big gamechanger, but a Lightning with 4 krak missiles, ground tracking and servitor will kill anything with an armour value. Propably even s spartan. Good answer to deathstar players.. beside this, you don't have to fesr putting sonething into reserce when going second.. for example sicarans which can still shoot to full effect or knight lancers..

 

The merciless fighters.. are hardly ever worth it to build a list around it.. i mean.. a hand full of attacks, propably hitting on 4s, wounding on 4s and beeing saved on 3+.. well even if you take a 20men blob thats average 1-2 dead bodies on top, otherwise its just 1 extra wound (unless you spend a dozen of points to buy PWs..).. something you should consider a free upgrade, but don't tailor your list around it ;)

[Caillum]

Maloghurst is solid. He makes Vets (and Reavers) Troops without having to pick Pride of the Legion, which is really good. He's a cheap-ish compulsory HQ that actually does something.

 

With Maloghurst, Reavers are one of the only compulsory Troops choices that can take Volkite Chargers CHOOOM!!! (the other being Terror Squads). They're pricey if you gear them up, but I'd almost say that Jump Packs are mandatory (giving them Bulky to help the Merciless Fighters Legion rule). They're still 1-Wound, power armoured models so they can die easily, but there's a lot to love.

 

Justaerin's 85-point tax is unfortunate. I want them to work as they are so very SoH... Maybe we'll see a review of them in the rumoured Age of Darkness army list.

[norngahl]

I understand what Maloghurst does.. but PotL makes no real difference beside reavers and we get a more resilent beatstick hq on top.. PotL drawbacks are minimal.. and reavers as troops.. what for when you have veterans??

 

Reavers as troops with volkite weapons.. I think there is no need for volkite weapons. Points sum up too fast to make extensive use of them.. rather take another quad mortar, same damage output, costs the same as the volkite upgrades and offers AT as well. And you don't put all eggs into one basket.