[HH1.0] Sons of Horus Tactica

[norngahl]

Melta Preds??

 

Never crossed their way. I mean I can see that S8 AP1 slice through marines of any type (even those with 2 or more wounds and 2+ AS) with ease, but beside the fact that it is pretty short ranged, do they really make up the given up HS slot? I mean.. You obviously take a Plasma Deredeo, 2(?, as you say preds) of these and.. a regular Deredeo? And Typhons.. You say hah, quadmortars are short ranged and won't do anything when they are locked up in combat.

 

So let me ask where you get your AT from. I see you have pretty much anti MEQ and TEQ, but what about AT..

[Hesh Kadesh]

Gravitin. 6 of them nix a Spartan or delay it long enough.

 

Drop pod Legion Dreads with dual Grav.

 

Vigilators scouting Breachers into position.

 

Darkfire Praevians.

 

Meltabombs Jetbikes to strip Hull points.

 

Not worriesd about Titans that much, as the Warhound is broken cheap and whe. I take it gets taken with a pair of Turbolasers.

 

Preds are 1-3, dont take a deredeo for plasma (take ac personally), and tac meltas are naughty for killing sicarans, ac or no.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Hesh Kadesh

[norngahl]

Grav is either pretty expensive in context or pretty fragile in terms of speeders.. sure, it is the only reliable thing against spartans, but against anything else there are more cost effective things. You simply don't need grav for AV13. And I think 6 darkfire shots, which cause about 2 HP if you take three, are no great deal as well IMO. Sure, when you regulary face spartans, you will go for these options, but if not.. there are better options for AT.

 

But I see the point of jetbikes with meltabombs. Pretty tough, not too expensive and usuable for various tasks.

[Marshal Loss]

Would you be so kind as to give us an example Sons of Horus army list that you run/enjoy running and consider strong, norngahl?

Edited August 7, 2015 by Marshal Loss

[norngahl]

Oh, a discussion happend.. Thread revived ;)

 

Here is an armylist I have playtestet for a while with good success.

 

 

HQ:

Legion Praetor, Paragon Blade, Iron Halo, Digital Lasers, Meltabombs, Phase Walker, RoW- Black Reaving 210

Master of Signal 95

 

 

Elite:

Contemptor Dreadnought, 2x DCCW/Gravgun 215

2xQuad Mortar 120

2xQuad Mortar 120

2xQuad Mortar 120

  

 

Troops:

10 Legionaires, Vexilla, Rhino 195

10 Reavers, 9x Chainaxe, 1x PW/AA/MB 249

10 Reavers, 9x Chainaxe, 1x PW/AA/MB 249

 

Fast Attack:

Dreadclaw 100

Dreadclaw 100

Dreadclaw 100

 

Heavy Support:

Deredeo, AC, Aiolos Missile Launcher 220

Deredeo, AC, Aiolos Missile Launcher 220

 

Lord of War:

Arvus Lightning Strike Fighter, 4x Kraken-Penetrator Missiles, Battle-Servitor, Ground Tracking 215

 

= 2253

 

Deredeos at the flanks, mortars split in between the deredeos, MoS behind one mortar, Praetor hidden out of LoS, for example in a building, going for move through cover USR on the table. Anything else in reserve, depending on the enemy the legionaires might be on the table as well.

 

First turn I will blast your transports and anti transport vehicles, depending on the enemy the reavers and/or dread arrive, the praetor teleports out of LoS into cover next to a digged in shooty unit to hunt them down alone (later in the game he can join reavers or going back backfield in terms of counter assaults or such).

 

The dreadclaws are not just more expensive pods, they are deepstriking skimmers and fast moving assault vehicles/firebases. Plus, once I blasted your tanks (32 S8 sunder shots per round..) than pretty much everything is armoured or in transports, beside the chars and the T7 effective 3 wounds mortars, rendering your small weapon fire of say S6 and less almost or nearly useless. Grav/primaris just there to finally get rid of a spartan. Army is pretty mobile and rather msu, making it hard to find a worthy target for enemy hammer units, making hard hitters of any kind a kind of a waste.

 

Yes I have little AP. But I will drown you in wounds or avoid you as good as possible.

 

I think this is a nice SoH armylist making use of their legion traits, representing a fast moving shock force and has a good target saturation.

 

But considering you play around 1500 points, I'd go for a praetor with phase walker, quad mortars, min troops in a nutshell, double deredeos and a scorpius.

[depthcharge12]

I just feel your list lacks the spirit of the legion force tbh. Not to mention you lack lots of anti TEQ weapons.

 

Now your Aiolos missile launchers can pick up some slack for killing marines, but you might be SOL if they both get nuked early on.

 

Next, why are you playing at such a weird point level? What is your established game size? Or do you just bring what's in your collection?

 

I'm not too convinced why you need 6 quad mortars, let alone the fact you already have two Deredeos. If you want to keep the quad mortars, switch out the Deredeos weapons to the plasma carronades.

 

I do like however your tactic of no solid force to really attack. It does seem though that you're heavily focussed on killing a vehicle heavy army.

[norngahl]

I fieled deathwing for many years.. and if I learnd something, than that it's best to drown the enemy in a hail of shots. 12 wounds against 2+ deal the same damage as 4 wounds against 4++.. a lot of small and medium firepower can be fielded for cheap, while the cheapest plasmaunit costs you at least 175 points.. without a transport.. I choose to fight the 2+ and save the points for teq. The master of signal is enough to render a 20 men blob useless, and pretty much none takes more than 2.

 

Once you killed the armour, you will throw out 24 blasts with S5.. assumeing you hit 3 models per plate, thats a average of 48 wounds vs marines.. plus the rest of the army plus close combat.. sonetimes it's enough to whittle a unit down, then you tarpit them or simply ignore them when they start to mob a few of your msu units..

 

But then.. very few players will throw more than a single terminator unit at you. I can handle them without AP2. They aren't invincible and few in numbers.

 

I think it's better to either go for as much armour as possible or as much bodies as possible. When you go for bodies, the enemy AT will be a waste, when you go for armour, enemy AI will be wasted. Just don't mix too much IMO.

[norngahl]

You can easily get it down to 2000 if you throw the lightning and a mortar out of the window.

 

Personally 2250 is cool for a well roumded list, 2000 is still fair, 1750 is pretty short. Just add 500 points to a regular 40k game szize and you got the 30k game szize equivalent.

[Marshal Loss]

If you're speaking to me, I'm not sure where you got that from; I don't play 1500, I play 2500 as the usual game. If you weren't never mind. It was you that said they played 1750 on the last page, which is definitely smaller than most 30k games.

 

It is interesting to see your take on the Sons of Horus after many posts disagreeing with what was posted. It isn't a particularly strong list imo and there's a lot of potential for VP's to be given away there. There are no bulky/very bulky units to assist the Reavers/Tacticals in attaining an advantage in cc, and this list won't do well in cc...and a solo commander running around? Even with phase walker, it doesn't feel like he's going to do too much. And why a Contemptor rather than the Hesh style normal Dread with 2x grav drop pod? Saves points and does essentially the same thing.

 

Most importantly, the list doesn't actually really do anything that another Legion can't do. The Lightning doesn't benefit from the Sons of Horus re-roll, so if it comes on later than turn 2 it will be too late to kill the enemy Spartan. The Deredeo's are the same as any other Legion and while admittedly good will still struggle with heavy armour. The Praetor is a free VP waiting to happen. Aside from having the Reavers here, who are certainly not of pivotal importance, it could be any other Legion. It makes very little use of the legion traits.

 

It isn't a terrible list but is hardly a good 'Sons of Horus' list i feel. Massed Str8 sunder fire is essentially what you're relying upon to win your games. And while you said Reavers are best against guard last page, I don't feel like you have enough bodies to take the fight to these big blobs - if this list came up against a Solar Auxilia army  for example, you'd lose the shooting fight and not have nough cc to take the fight to them. You're pretty much relying on 3 things: Them simply not walking up to your mortars/Dreadnoughts with a Spartan before the Lightning comes on, your 200 point (and against lots of armies, totally useless) Praetor not getting blown up and your Dreadclaws being alive to put your units where you want them, in an objectives game at least. I can't move off the Phase Walker Praetor. Even if he doesn't die, what's he going to do? I'd much rather a Maloghurst/force multiplier then a cc beatstick who only has 1 melta bomb attack inc and won't be able to break strong units in cc.

 

That list can be undone by a casual Spartan. This is where Graviton Rapiers are definitely not 'bad' units.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Marshal Loss

[depthcharge12]

Points for points, what do you guys think about a 5 man plasma support squad in a dreadclaw versus a plasma deredeo?

 

Or maybe a rhino with the plasma squad and a MoS? You could park it somewhere nice first turn and use the bombardment, then move up and let out the squad?

[dansupvi]

guys how should i use maloghurst? i saw on last page hes good with terminators? so just him and terminators in a spartan? or should i use abaddon instead?

[depthcharge12]

Actually, here we go...I'll see you're 2250 list and raise you a 2000 one that I think could perform just as well, if not better :) nothing like a little friendly rivalry to get the brain juices flowing.

 

Sons of Horus 2000 point list - Black Reaving RoW

 

HQ

 

Delegatus (130)

+ Primus armor, power fist, combi bolter

 

MoS (95)

+ bolt pistol, chainsword

 

Elites

 

4 Justaerin (295)

+ 4 power fists, 1 multi melta, 3 combi bolters

 

 

Troops

 

10 Reavers (259)

+ 9 chainaxes, 1 melta gun, Chief w/AA/PS/MB

 

10 Reavers (259)

+ " "

 

15 tactical marines (200)

+ w/bolters

 

 

Fast Attack

 

Anvillus drop pod (100)

 

Anvillus drop pod (100)

 

Anvillus drop pod (100)

 

 

Heavy Support

 

2 Predators (270)

+ 2 plasma annihilator cannons, 2 x 2 heavy bolter sponsons

 

Venator tank destroyer (190)

 

 

Total = 1998 points

 

So here's the deal, the Delly and Justaerin go together in a pod and the two reaver squads get a pod. If the enemy has a Spartan deathstar unit, then the Justies go in first along with one of the reaver squads. The two Anvillus pods come in first turn and burninate the countryside and go on to do an 18" flat out movement during the shooting phase and jink as needed. The J's roll up next turn ;) and hop out to nuke a Spartan if possible with their MM - considering people are shaving points at this level, it's safe to assume a good portion of gamers won't be taking AC. Failing that, they can charge in the assault phase (19" avg threat range...6" movement of drop pod + 6" disembark + 7" avg charge) into the Spartan with 4 S8 hits and 12 S9 hits from furious charge power fists.

 

I estimate that the J's and the Delly can hold out a turn in assault against a medium tier rated terminator unit until a reaver squad can hop in with rage and merciless fighters to drown them in attacks. A melta goes on each of the reaver squads to help destroy annoying things like Sicarans, dreads, or Deredeos that don't rock up with AC. In a pinch, their precision shot could also snipe out an AA sgt.

 

The 15 tactical marines hold down the fort with the MoS on a home objective. The MoS does his thing to drop a pie plate on an unfortunate unit and then lends BS5 to the tacticals.

 

The curveball I put in this list is the Predator annihilator squad. They can lay down the hate with 6 small blast plasma cannon shots...useful against rapier batteries and TEQ units that present themselves. Heavy bolters are for extra target saturation as well as a buffer for vehicle damage.

 

The Venator is there to snipe either Deredeos (that would present a problem to this list) or a Spartan if needs be.

 

This list is more oriented towards a Beta strike mindset, but is incredibly mobile and provides many threats that need to be dealt with accordingly or else it will lock up the enemy all game.

[Sanct]

@norngahl:  If you played that list against me at a 2250 points level the first thing i would do is pack up.  It's actual points level is about 2500.  I say about because half the units have incorrect totals.

I'd be surprised if you didn't have luck playtesting it at against lists who have a 300pt handicap

 

While it looks great from a pure brute slot/damage efficency level it lacks on the both the mobility and resilience aspects (especially against a multi raider list or a drop pod list.)

I like the quad mortar/augury scanner combo.  If your group is one of the ignore-the-FaQ-cataphracts-confer-SnP you could really abuse it.

 

To get back to the topic, has anyone toyed with ranged options for Reavers? I've proxied my Vets for Reavers with Banestrike, not bad at all, the only issue is the squad not having access to Meltabombs. 

 

 

i keep yoyoing between combi-weapons to make them take an alpha strike seeker role or volkites for shooting the rear of tanks and AP.  For jumppackers I's just stick to a numbers, combat and a couple of meltaguns.  I'm always a fan of meltaguns on a unit like reavers.

 

Points for points, what do you guys think about a 5 man plasma support squad in a dreadclaw versus a plasma deredeo?

 

 

Powergaming I'd go for the deredeo.  Lots of immunities, range and flexibility.  Plus it can avoid the gets hot rule.

 

guys how should i use maloghurst? i saw on last page hes good with terminators? so just him and terminators in a spartan? or should i use abaddon instead?

 

 

What sort of list are you using him for?  He's a meh combat character and is really best at unlocking reavers with a rite with a few other benefits.

 

...And why a Contemptor rather than the Hesh style normal Dread with 2x grav drop pod? Saves points and does essentially the same thing...

 

<ahem>hesh style?

Edited August 9, 2015 by Sanct

[dansupvi]

 

 

 

What sort of list are you using him for?  He's a meh combat character and is really best at unlocking reavers with a rite with a few other benefits.

 

i just saw on the last page that terminators with mal in them is a good fearless anvil, so was just wondering whether he was really good with them in a spartan or if there were less obvious ways of using him 

[norngahl]

Deptcharge12, I see your points, and some are interesting.  On the Justaerin- I think they are too expensive.. wouldn't 5 regular terminators be better? The plasma preds are a nice and rather cheap scource of AP2 plates, but I still feel there isn't enough ranged AT. The sicaran is awesome, but it is the only reliable AT source in the list beside the justaerin. The thing I do not like about 11+ marine blobs is that they can only sit in cover, hoping anything will get into their bolter range. A melta or two in the reavers should be something I consider, might fare better than to much quad mortars, especially against raider lists (never face one tbh, guess because all the other stuff is more shiny).

 

Sanct, you are right, I broke it down from my last 3k list on my phone and it seems I made a typo, my bad. The List I posted is actually 2528, but not 2253. The Contemptor is just 205 instead of 215 as well, got rid of his drop pod and stuffed him into a dreadclaw :D Good catch! But you can break it down to 2500 with no efford. I think RoW works rather bad on points below as you are paying about at least 250 points taxes for the rite (MoS, 1 extra troop), rather about 300 points upward.

 

Marshal, I won't tailor a list around a free S4 attack. That's a bonus you get from SoH, but I don't see it worth to invest an ungodly amount of points into a unit just to get 15 or less s4 attacks.. even if it is 15 free attacks, that's one dead marine per round unless you buy a bunch of powerweapons and bump this unit up in terms of point costs, where they get so expensive they have to fight stuff they actually should not  face for their own sake. But as you seem to have a better understanding (no offense) I am happy to see your armylist suggestions.

 

 

Why not post some armylists and try to build a solid generic core most people are pleased with? Just give it a try. I feel here are more complainments in this threat what to make better or which armylist is bad and why, but therefore no armylist postet in return. Do it better.

[Marshal Loss]

...And why a Contemptor rather than the Hesh style normal Dread with 2x grav drop pod? Saves points and does essentially the same thing...

 

<ahem>hesh style?

 

It is he who made the suggestion to me!

 

@Norngahl: You do not need to invest an 'ungodly' amount of points to get the most out of the SoH rules. But when you have so few bodies on the board with no bulky/very bulky, and your most important reserves don't even get the Legion bonus, you are getting literally nothing out of the Sons of Horus rules. That is a Black Reaving list that won't be getting rage, barely uses Reavers etc...what is the point in running the Rite? That's what I am trying to say here.

 

I am not the person saying that I will not buy units because they 'have bad rules', nor am I the one constantly shooting down ideas - Maloghurst is bad etc.

 

With all respect, playing the Sons of Horus should either be about pursuing a theme or making the most out of their rules. Otherwise, such tactics are not those of the Sons of Horus specifically, but a normal Legion.  If you didn't notice, many of us already have things we've agreed on over the last few pages.

 

Anyway, I don't want to single you out any longer (or cause offence), nor do I want to derail the thread. If you want a better explanation, private message me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What sort of list are you using him for?  He's a meh combat character and is really best at unlocking reavers with a rite with a few other benefits.

 

i just saw on the last page that terminators with mal in them is a good fearless anvil, so was just wondering whether he was really good with them in a spartan or if there were less obvious ways of using him 

 

 

Ideally you want him somewhere where his fearless bubble will do something, but not a place where he will be in risk of dying himself. I think Terminators were suggested because that way his disabilities won't impair the unit he is with (Sweeping Advance)

Edited August 9, 2015 by Marshal Loss

[Slips]

Tried my hand at something.

 

Has enough anti-tank and anti-infantry (imo) and, while it does use JP Reavers, the JP Primus with VSH is there to increase their durability with an Av12 Bubble and FNP. Meaning if they want to absolutely murderlate the unit before it does its job, they'll need to invest higher-grade firepower that isnt going into the rest of the lists Heavy Hitters.

 

For anti-tank, you've got 2 Venators, 1 Sicaran and AT Capable Storm Eagles as well as a sprinkling of Melta Guns, Melta Bombs, Krakk Missiles and a power fist or two. Should be sufficient, I feel.

 

The two Tac vets squads also both have some very defined roles:

• The Sniper & ML squad will be joined my Maloghurst and, should they opt to deploy from a Storm Eagle, provide close fire support. Yay Suspensor Webs making Heavy Weapons Assault! Meaning you can still shoot it on the way out.
• The FC, Power Weapon and Heavy Flamer Loaded Squad is there to deal some CC Damage. Its your choice of Power Swords, Axes and Mauls and how thats spread around the unit. Heavy Flamers are there as Charge Deterrent or to soften something up on the way in. They have a Vexilla in the event that they stray too far from Malgo's Fearless banner and Melta Bombs. They also still all have their Bolters at hand so can go pew pew if needed. With 2A base +1 for BP&CCW and +1 if they charge, thats 40 Power Weapon attacks right then and there with +1S from FC and the additional attack at I1 should they overwhelm the enemy unit. Even loaded up with Mauls and Swords to hit at Initiative, the stand a good chance of murderlating even TEQ squads through sheer weight of attacks.
• 
  

Reavers are there to play a "Hyena" role. Zipping around the board, shooting up stuff and only ever getting into fights that they have the advantage in. They can even screen for the CC Tac Vet Squad if needed to really bring the beatdown. Also, due to the nature of the squad, all the Power Weapons could be hidden in the squad instead so that they dont get challenged out on the Sarge. Melta Guns have the added benefit of denying FNP to non-T5 Marines and providing Ap2 Shooting that isnt liable to blow up in your face and kill you in addition to just being Melta Guns.

 

All in all, the 3 Infantry units are meant to work in concert and work together to clear up the board. They also all have Apothecaries glues to them for FNP Galore, so, yay!

 

Use the Venators + Sicaran to 100% absolutely murderlate any Anti-Air they might have in the list or even pop a Spartan Early on if you deploy right.

 

 

+++ SoH - Generic (2500pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2500pts) ++

 

+ HQ (330pts) +

 

Legion Centurion (190pts) [Artificer Armour, Boarding Shield, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs, Single Lightning Claw, Void Shield Harness]

··Consul [Primus Medicae]

 

Maloghurst the Twisted (140pts)

 

+ Troops (985pts) +

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (270pts) [9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, 2x Missile Launcher and Suspensor Web, Sniper]

··Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Weapon]

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (375pts) [Furious Charge, 2x Heavy Flamer, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Melta Bombs, 9x Power Weapon]

··Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Power Weapon]

 

Reaver Attack Squad (340pts) [Artificer Armour, Jump Packs, Melta Bombs, 2x Meltagun, Power Fist, 2x Power Weapon, 9x Reavers]

 

+ Elites (140pts) +

 

Apothecarion Detachment (140pts)

··Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner, Power Sword]

··Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner, Power Sword]

 

+ Fast Attack (510pts) +

 

Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship (255pts) [single Missile Launcher, Two Twin-linked Lascannons]

 

Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship (255pts) [single Missile Launcher, Two Twin-linked Lascannons]

 

+ Heavy Support (535pts) +

 

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (155pts) [Heavy Bolters]

 

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer (190pts)

 

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer (190pts)

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [XVI: Sons of Horus]

 

Only thing stopping this from being Black Reaving legal is an MoS it wouldnt be too hard to shave ~75pts to fit in a naked MoS. You Could Easily make this an Angels Wrath list by shuffling things around, namely the Tanks.

 

./Shrug 

Edited August 9, 2015 by Slipstreams

[norngahl]

@marshal

Oh, don't worry boy, no offense taken. In Germany we say: Viel Feind, viel Ehr. Seems like the meta around here is a completly different one to the meta you face. Some here brought up units (Plasmaderedeos and Meltapreds?!) I never faced on the battlefield. Maybe because they would not work around here.

 

Yes, you are right, this is a Sons of Horus tactica rather than a legion tactica. Nontheless I seem to understand SoH specific rules different than many people around here. I would much rather mob up damaged units of, say 7 or less guys, with the 10 men squads than running a tooled up 15 men unit with jumppacks, 4x powerweapons and all the stuff to go up toe on toe with other hard hitters.

 

The trend seems to tend to ram units down the enemies throat. Something like point and click.

 

Reavers afford a lot to make them work. Especially with Jump Packs. When they outflank, they stand in the open for a whole turn at least, if not they even pop up on the wrong side of the table. Dreadclaws are easier to control in this case, but the unit inside chances tactics as well. They just aren't the beatstick anymore.  I like the Models, but tbh, regular veterans do the same job euqally well if not better. At least the job which fits my playstyle. Yes, you can say- why are you here gfor SoH when you don't use their units? Simple. I'm here for the f*cking betrayl and the colours.

Edited August 9, 2015 by norngahl

[Slips]

The Thing is, with Jump Pack Reavers, you only ever need 10 since they'd count as a unit of 20 for the purposes of outnumbering; Jetbikes counting as 3. Use an 11 man unit of Reavers and they'll count as 22 Models meaning they'll always outnumber 20man Tac Blobs with Apothecaries and no other character attached.

 

You're also not obliged to Outflank them. If you're going 2nd and playing on the long table edge, you can potentially get a T1 Charge off if you're lucky :p

[WolfOfHorus]

The Thing is, with Jump Pack Reavers, you only ever need 10 since they'd count as a unit of 20 for the purposes of outnumbering; Jetbikes counting as 3. Use an 11 man unit of Reavers and they'll count as 22 Models meaning they'll always outnumber 20man Tac Blobs with Apothecaries and no other character attached.

 

You're also not obliged to Outflank them. If you're going 2nd and playing on the long table edge, you can potentially get a T1 Charge off if you're lucky :p

That's just Mathhammer man. Rarely works on the table like that. Edited August 9, 2015 by WolfOfHorus

[depthcharge12]

My experience with jump packs is that they always get shot off the table quickly and cost way too much.

 

The only time I've found them useful is to deep strike destroyers.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Jetbikes don't count as anything. They aren't infantry.

 

Jump Packs use cover. If you don't have enough cover stop playing on a snooker table and use the recommended amounts in the 7th ed rules.

 

Biggest threats come from barrage weapons, which is why if you are facing Quad mortars or Scorpius youcan opt to Deep Strike or Outflank, while your Deep Strike Meltas or Melta/Plasma Preds hunt those threats first turn.135pts to kill a BRapier battery is good investment. Thst they eat TEQ's/MEQ's and Apothecary Blobs for breakfast is a plus.

 

Ta da. Magic.

 

Use their threat to shield other units, hide in plain sight.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Hesh Kadesh

[Sanct]

Maloghurst - 140

 

Mortis - 155

-TL-LC x2

Mortis - 155

-TL-LC x2

 

Terminators x6 - 265

Combi- x5, Plasma Blaster, PF x2

Spartan - 340

-Flare shield, AC

 

Reavers x10 - 300

-Volkites x7, Hand flamer, MG x2, chainaxes x6

LR - 270

-AC

Reavers x10 - 300

-Volkites x7, Hand flamer, MG x2, chainaxes x6

LR - 270

-AC

 

Predator x2 - 190

-HB Sponsons

 

Whirlwind Scorpius - 115

 

Total - 2500

 

A sleepless night led me to writing this up.  What do you think?  The preds could be traded for a sicaran leaving points to trade the mortis to contemptor variants but the contemptor is harder to hide behind a raider and the greater damage potential/hp of the preds.  Some decent long range shooting to grind the key targets beyond much of their range (grav and quad mortars)

[Sheesh Mode]

 

Maloghurst - 140

 

Mortis - 155

-TL-LC x2

Mortis - 155

-TL-LC x2

 

Terminators x6 - 265

Combi- x5, Plasma Blaster, PF x2

Spartan - 340

-Flare shield, AC

 

Reavers x10 - 300

-Volkites x7, Hand flamer, MG x2, chainaxes x6

LR - 270

-AC

Reavers x10 - 300

-Volkites x7, Hand flamer, MG x2, chainaxes x6

LR - 270

-AC

 

Predator x2 - 190

-HB Sponsons

 

Whirlwind Scorpius - 115

 

Total - 2500

 

A sleepless night led me to writing this up.  What do you think?  The preds could be traded for a sicaran leaving points to trade the mortis to contemptor variants but the contemptor is harder to hide behind a raider and the greater damage potential/hp of the preds.  Some decent long range shooting to grind the key targets beyond much of their range (grav and quad mortars)

 

It'll hit hard, but the Reavers will disappear as soon as the enemy targets them. They should be great against most non-marine armies from guardsmen to Eldar, but the issue remains that they are still expensive marines. They face the same issues chaos Chosen face: being an elite unit as durable as a tactical marine. Still they work great in conjunction with the hard terminator core. 

 

I'm of the opinion that if you are going to invest in a specific kind of strategy you should go all the way. Or at least nearly all the way. So replacing the predators with a Sicaran would compliment your speed the general 'push' of this list while maintaining the firepower. The Mortis's work for what they do, but I would rather have another Sicaran for redundancy. Either you dominate the air game or you do not. Two mortis dreadnoughts will make little difference against concentrated air power. 

 

Conversely, the Whirlwind Scorpius brings that key range element this list really needs: hard hitting, long ranged, barrage. There will be things this list may encounter which make it extremely impractical to attempt to eliminate via assault, such as commanders in blob squads of heavy weapons teams at the back of the army and so-forth. A Whirlwind Scorpius gives you the power to almost point and click certain infantry models away thanks to S8 AP3 Barrage. 

 

Still. That's a hell of a lot of points with very little hit to it. You have a ton of durability in your landraiders, but not enough to really intimidate enemy armies at 2500 points.

 

Consider the following list I intend to run.

 

+++ Descent of the Warmaster (2000pts) +++

 

+ HQ +

 

Legion Centurion [Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon]

Consul [Primus Medicae]

Legion Centurion [Terminator Armor with Twin Lightning claws]

 

+ Troops +

Justaerin Terminator Squad [3x Chainfist, 10x Justaerin Terminators, 2x Multi-melta]

Legion Tactical Squad [14x(Including Sergeant) Legion Tactical Space Marines, Vexilla]

 

+ Elites +

Apothecarion Detachment [Legion Apothecary]

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')]

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')]

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')]

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')]

 

+ Heavy Support +

Legion Vindicator

Legion Vindicator

 

+ Legion +

Legion Astartes [XVI: Sons of Horus]

 

+ Lord of War +

Horus the Warmaster

 

My list hits much harder than yours and is 500 points less. Granted I am relying on the best Primarch in the game to make my Vindicators and Terminators awesome, but the point remains. You are not as lethal as your list ought to be given its heavy armored focus and fast moving firepower. It lacks the ability to control the board and thereby make up for its inability to really maneuver and control objectives as other armies are wont to do. Meanwhile, this list has board control via the turn 2 unscatterable Justaerin Death Star, outflanking vindicators, and the infantry destroying firepower of the Quad Morters. I have more than half of the list invested in Horus and Friends, but the price is worth it for a unit that can kill almost anything it assaults and appears where it wants to. Further, much less of the list is liable to be hurt by enemy fire before turn 2 thanks to the wonders of reserve manipulation. 

 

I think you are on the right track using Maloghurst as the center of an armored spearhead. But feel you should be investing more in your spear head. Maloghurst is a great force multiplier with his 12" fearless bubble, and can still take a chosen command squad for an additional 12" fearless bubble. You can potentially create a really nasty Pride of the Legion force revolving around multiple fearless terminator squads while the banner bearers sit around the back making them brave. Perhaps stick Maloghurst in a unit of Cataphractii to make a hard terminator brick without impeding another unit with Old man Malo's broken back. 

 

No one likes to deal with a bunch of fearless terminators. 

Edited August 27, 2015 by Sheesh Mode

[Sanct]

You intend to take Horus, attach him (so he has majority toughness 4) to a unit that cannot run and deepstrike him?  They'll be base to base.  I think Kit talked about how insanely risky that is it earlier in the thread.

You would be better off using regular terminators as they are acting as a meat shield to the others.