[HH1.0] Sons of Horus Tactica

[Charlo]

No problem! Boys over toys my friend. Boots on the ground win battles. Plus when you're getting potentially 6 attacks per model (2+rage+merciless+extra ccw) you can hope for a few 1 rolls on the saves as opposed to tooling up your dudes.

[PastelAvenger]

You forgot the +1 attack on the charge ;-)

[Charlo]

I did, but that's because it's two with rage from the RoW :P

[PastelAvenger]

Ah yeah I realised that after I posted but got called into a meeting haha Edited November 20, 2015 by PastelAvenger

[Flint13]

Keep in mind too, that Merciless Fighters only gives them bonus attacks for weapons that aren't stuck at initiative step 1, so unfortunately Power Fists and Power Axes can't benefit from it. 

[depthcharge12]

Keep in mind too, that Merciless Fighters only gives them bonus attacks for weapons that aren't stuck at initiative step 1, so unfortunately Power Fists and Power Axes can't benefit from it.

See, this is why I want to see a SoH player field 2 or 3 full 20 man true grit squads...preferably in a Kharbydis :devil:

 

Can you say sexy time?

[Sheesh Mode]

Keep in mind too, that Merciless Fighters only gives them bonus attacks for weapons that aren't stuck at initiative step 1, so unfortunately Power Fists and Power Axes can't benefit from it. 

 

It is also worth note that despite this handicap Unwieldy weapons remain an asset for the Sons of Horus as they rely upon infantry-assault to accomplish their aims. Though we lose the benefit of an additional attack at initiative 1, we gain bodies and flexibility by relying on infantry-ported s8/9, and AP2. I much prefer terminators armed with chainfists, and power axes to a Diemos Patter Vindicator on the basis of army cohesion and maneuverability.

[GreyCrow]

 

Keep in mind too, that Merciless Fighters only gives them bonus attacks for weapons that aren't stuck at initiative step 1, so unfortunately Power Fists and Power Axes can't benefit from it. 

 

It is also worth note that despite this handicap Unwieldy weapons remain an asset for the Sons of Horus as they rely upon infantry-assault to accomplish their aims. Though we lose the benefit of an additional attack at initiative 1, we gain bodies and flexibility by relying on infantry-ported s8/9, and AP2. I much prefer terminators armed with chainfists, and power axes to a Diemos Patter Vindicator on the basis of army cohesion and maneuverability.

 

 

Agreed 100% on the Tactical utility of AP2 weapons in melee. People also often forget that they Ignore cover, which is quite a rarity in 30k compared to 40k.

 

I feel Merciless fighters benefit Terminators with Power Swords/Lightning Claws the most. As they already count as 2 models, have I4 weapons that strike at AP3 and 2+ save meaning more are likely to survive in melee.

They might not be able to overrun a squad but they're sure to make it flee for sure and spend a turn doing nothing :p

[PastelAvenger]

Merciless Fighter is nice and all but you can't tailor your list to it, it just doesn't give you the killing power. 10 extra attacks that's like 1 dead tactical. AP3 does help but you can only really go after Power Armour then, which any unit can do really.

[GreyCrow]

Merciless Fighter is nice and all but you can't tailor your list to it, it just doesn't give you the killing power. 10 extra attacks that's like 1 dead tactical. AP3 does help but you can only really go after Power Armour then, which any unit can do really.

 

Well, I'd rather have 10 Lightning Claw attacks over 10 extra bolter shots ^^ Overall, that's 3 extra dead MEQ which isn't too shabby when combat resolution matters. Definitely not the main source of damage.

 

I do agree that you can't build your list around specifically that rule though (much like you can't build around Interlocking Tactics actually). To me it's more meant as a : "Hey, so if you want to have an army that is Assault capable, don't forget that you have Merciless Fighters ! Just saying... Are you sure you don't want to have an assaulty army ?".

It just gives extra efficiency to units that you want to assault with.

[PastelAvenger]

Yeah suppose the point I was trying to make its that I read so many posts raving about it, yeah it's nice but it's not going to win you games.

 

Anyway only a week to my Tourney I will post up what happens. I am frantically trying to paint 20 Reavers, Fire Raptor and a Dreadclaw.

[norngahl]

The extra attacks are nice when you are going to wipe out whatever is leftover by the big guns. Even if you only fight 9 vs. 8 you get the little bonus here. It's a nice extra wound that can make an enemy break from combat or helps freeing up your units a bit faster. But building lists around it isn't really helpful.

 

What shines most ist the fact, that SoH reroll 1s on reserves. Getting your reserves in when you reserved nearly your whole army (going second by dice or going second by choice vs drop armys) is a tactical gift I prefer nowadays a lot mote than, for example, -1 strength at shooting like IH.

[Charlo]

Yeah the reserve thing is super strong. It works out to be like, 17% more reliable or something.

 

Is great if you mess around with opponents reserves with wargear so your army comes in and thiers doesn't :D

[Sanct]

Merciless Fighter is nice and all but you can't tailor your list to it, it just doesn't give you the killing power. 10 extra attacks that's like 1 dead tactical. AP3 does help but you can only really go after Power Armour then, which any unit can do really.

 

The point is not that it might kill 1 dead tactical (an expected result soft cap) it's that it can kill 10 extra models (a possible hard cap) 

 

Especially on those pesky mechanicum/militia units with 20+ models all over the place that Will.Not.Break (fearless^tm)

[norngahl]

Potential/RNG is nothing I can base an army around, see, a Sicaran with HBs CAN kill 15 marines per round, but to be honest, he won't. :)

 

Merciless fighter can be obtained easily, once your squad has some powerweapons. Veterans or reavers with some PWs or attachend character will do so much damage to rank and file, they will outnumber them more often than not. Just make sure you focus on the weak and soften up the strong ones with shooting.

 

Thats whats horus all about- finding weak points, abuse it and crush it with overkill. It's not shoving two tooled up units into another and hope you get a bonus attack.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Without wanting to be insukting, durh?

 

An additional I1 attack not on I1 weapons is of little tactical use. It doesn't give you another chance to snipe a hidden pfist.

 

It just lets you gank through a unit/roadblock.

 

It is allwell and good saying yay 20 man units is another 20 attacks, but if an opponent can bring 21 men to counter that, you are screwed. Go for a local superiority.

 

Build a list around getting the most possible models into an assault. Note that only infantry count, and depending on how FW understand the differences between infantry, this may not allow Jump Infantry. Things like Bikes or Jetbikes benefit from it, but can't count towards additional attacks.

 

That said, i read it as all infantry, so jump infantry are allowed, and a destroyer squad is pretty darn useful. Not only does it bring another count as 10 bodies to the fight, but there is a Rad nade bringing in enenies to T2 or 3, they are fast and have a hammer of wrath.

[Sheesh Mode]

A note as well about dreadclaws. I am uncertain whether it was discussed in this thread or another: but not all legions can deploy terminators in dedicated transport dreadclaws. That is an extremely useful unit allowance which enables us to benefit from all of our Legion rules, though is primarily related to reserves. I am looking forward to testing out minimum sized units of cataphractii to deploy in dreadclaws and send after lords of war. Implacable advance and strong anti-armor capabilities are good.

[Caillum]

NOW all legions can deploy terminators in dedicated transport dreadclaws.

Fixed it for you. ;)

[depthcharge12]

I honestly think FW will fix the old 4 legions in the next book from what I've heard.

[Marshal Loss]

Very much look forward to it, and to the new rite of war in book 6. Perhaps the dream of usable Justaerin is not an unrealistic one after all.

[Sheesh Mode]

I honestly think FW will fix the old 4 legions in the next book from what I've heard.

What's wrong with Sons of Horus right now? :U

[Charlo]

 

 

I honestly think FW will fix the old 4 legions in the next book from what I've heard.

What's wrong with Sons of Horus right now? :U

Mainly justaerian cost. That's about it. I suppose Abaddon is a bit crap too... But we'll see.

 

SoH seem pretty strong to me, they play a little on hard mode but you are rewarded for it.

[depthcharge12]

 

 

I honestly think FW will fix the old 4 legions in the next book from what I've heard.

What's wrong with Sons of Horus right now? :U

They need to fix the wording to any SoH model in reserve gets the bonus. Also, if they dropped the I1 restriction on the Merciless Fighters rule, I feel that the SoH would get a huge boost. Also, Abaddon needs buffing.

[Hesh Kadesh]

I'd keep the Edge of the Spear as Legiones Astartes (SoH) only. It's slightly annoying from a completely competitive perspective, but more boys over toys fits for Sons of Horus. If I was to reword their rules per se, it would be to ensure that the outnumbering counts with all non-vehicles, not just infantry. As it stands it's questionable if even Jump Infantry benefit from it.

 

Abaddon needs an extra attack and Eternal Warrior. Marked by Dark Fates seems to have been ignored largely, so might as well give him Eternal Warrior as well. Same for Khârn.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Hesh Kadesh

[Marshal Loss]

Agree with the above, I'd like to get it from Jetbikes etc too. And if Garro gets EW, it boggles the mind that Abaddon doesn't.