Iron Father Ferrum Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 In all this excitement about the codex, I forgot to wonder how Arkos will fit into things! First off, his personal infiltration ability will work well with an assaulting squad being infiltrated: he can appear close enough to help them get a charge off with his +1 to charge rolls aura. Second, his -1 to be hit debuff will stack with the Legion Trait, making him hard to shoot down. Third, he provides an extra CP because I feel like we'll be relying a lot on stratagems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAlephNull Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 In all this excitement about the codex, I forgot to wonder how Arkos will fit into things! First off, his personal infiltration ability will work well with an assaulting squad being infiltrated: he can appear close enough to help them get a charge off with his +1 to charge rolls aura. Second, his -1 to be hit debuff will stack with the Legion Trait, making him hard to shoot down. Third, he provides an extra CP because I feel like we'll be relying a lot on stratagems. Will he though? The buff to charge only applies Faithless and we have not yet seen a rule that allows a Faithless squad to be taken. I hope we do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Faithless is just a warband keyword you can introduce to the army on your own... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 True, but if I'm right in assuming TheAlephNull meant Alpha Legion and Faithless are not the same keyword, and the buff only applies to Faithless, then the buff can't apply to Alpha Legion units, despite the fact that Arkos himself has both keywords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Now that is a fair point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Submarine Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Can Legion specific rules be applied to forgeworld dreadnoughts? I know it's infantry bikes and helbrutes, but isn't that because there are no dreadnoughts in the CSM codex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adreal Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 The forge world dreads have the helbrute keyword, but are not called hellbrutes, so yes they can make use of legion traits, but not fire frenzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Submarine Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Ah. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazSexington Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I'm a bit disappointed that they gave us a Raven Guard copypasta sans parmesan, but it's not unfluffy. The Warlord Trait I like, in keeping with one of my favourite things from the 7th edition Legion rules. The Raven Guard copypasta is fine - it's in keeping with our original guerrilla warfare tactics after the Horus Heresy. While we're not as flexible as we are in 30k, it's still fluffy and balanced. Edit: and GW didn't just give us some cheap-ass Chosen rules. Thank the Octed. Hello chaps, this seemed to be as good as time as any to emerge from deep cover to share some intel. (I always lurk, but never post) Our Legion specific relic is an exact copy of the Teeth of terra option from the loyalists: Blade of the Hydra (Melee) +1S -2AP 2D D3 additional attacks each time the user fights. looks like i need to get me some fancy new chainsword. Great for slaughtering termies and Primarises, actually! I like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civsmitty Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Hello chaps, this seemed to be as good as time as any to emerge from deep cover to share some intel. (I always lurk, but never post) Our Legion specific relic is an exact copy of the Teeth of terra option from the loyalists: Blade of the Hydra (Melee) +1S -2AP 2D D3 additional attacks each time the user fights. looks like i need to get me some fancy new chainsword. I'm actually putting this on my bike Lord (who happens to wear MkIV plate and ride an Outrider bike). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Submarine Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 The forge world dreads have the helbrute keyword, but are not called hellbrutes, so yes they can make use of legion traits, but not fire frenzy I have just looked at the datasheet and the hellforged contemptor and deredeo do not carry the helbrute keyword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 The forge world dreads have the helbrute keyword, but are not called hellbrutes, so yes they can make use of legion traits, but not fire frenzy I have just looked at the datasheet and the hellforged contemptor and deredeo do not carry the helbrute keyword. Which is why one must (perhaps frustratingly) keep up with FAQ/Errata. The Helbrute keyword addition is here: https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/40K_8th_ed_Update_Imperial_Armour_Index_Forces_of_Chaos_ver_1.1.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Submarine Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Ahhh, thank you! It is annoying keeping up with the FAQs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Yeah, if I spent more time actually playing the game instead of just reading about it, I would have no idea. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun03 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Nice that it applies to Leviathan as well. I think of trying a dreadnought heavy list. Leviathan and 3 contemptor giving the fact we can regain wounds and theirs no relic stupidity to deal with it may work out. Seeing how we foot slogging for most part that -1 to hit is even better. For the FO looking at taking 20man strong sq, sprinkle in few special weapons and some light gear on champ. Huge footprint that has to be dealt with, its more of mind :cuss than anything. Depending on terrain can lock them in base to base to block a choke point, or spread them out and slow down some fast movers. Shifting 20 PA isn't easy, and even the dice gods :cuss me, they should hold until some help arrives. I was looking at possessed but there attacks are too random, Mutilators are too slow and pricey. Cultist are going to be everyone first choice and thus meta will be looking at ways to wipe them out in one go. But moving 20 marines is going to take good amount of firepower and cc effort, and leaves the rest of army moving up unmolested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryptix Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 For a Dread list try Vanguard Detachment (Alpha Legion) Hellwright with all his gear - 178 15 Chaos Cultists with Flamer - 69 Contemptor with Dreadclaw, Meltagun, and Twin Autocannon - 198 Contemptor with Dreadclaw, Meltagun, and Twin Autocannon - 198 Contemptor with Dreadclaw, Meltagun, and Twin Autocannon - 198 Contemptor with 2 Butcher Cannons - 206 Contemptor with 2 Butcher Cannons - 206 Leviathan with Siege Drill and Grav Flux Bombard - 373 Leviathan with Siege Drill and Grav Flux Bombard - 373 1999 points and it's pretty damn scary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Nice that it applies to Leviathan as well. I think of trying a dreadnought heavy list. Leviathan and 3 contemptor giving the fact we can regain wounds and theirs no relic stupidity to deal with it may work out. Seeing how we foot slogging for most part that -1 to hit is even better. For the FO looking at taking 20man strong sq, sprinkle in few special weapons and some light gear on champ. Huge footprint that has to be dealt with, its more of mind than anything. Depending on terrain can lock them in base to base to block a choke point, or spread them out and slow down some fast movers. Shifting 20 PA isn't easy, and even the dice gods me, they should hold until some help arrives. I was looking at possessed but there attacks are too random, Mutilators are too slow and pricey. Cultist are going to be everyone first choice and thus meta will be looking at ways to wipe them out in one go. But moving 20 marines is going to take good amount of firepower and cc effort, and leaves the rest of army moving up unmolested. I had considered this, but I feel like it will only be effective if you don't place the blob squad where it is immediately threatening to the enemy. I know that sounds odd, but models -- even Space Marines -- die very, very fast in 8th Edition. Our Legion Trait improves our Marines on the durability scale, but only at over 12", so to take advantage of that you need to put them in such a place where the enemy is firing at them with a penalty. Rather than place them front and center to sponge up the bullets, instead stick them on a flank, or in terrain on an objective. If playing one of the wedge-shaped deployment types (or the table quarters one), place them outside the deployment zone but in a strategically advantageous spot where they can present a flanking maneuver without actually providing a "must die NOW" impulse to the enemy. If you do place them as close as humanly possible to the enemy and in a position where they present an immediate and lethal threat, that also means that they are going to be outside of support range for at least one turn -- possibly two or three -- and while they will absorb a lot of shooting, without support they will die messily very quickly. The only way I personally would do that is if it's a squad that absolutely wants to be there, like Possessed or Berzerkers. Otherwise, I think that infiltrating for the tactical benefit is more important than doing it for the Distraction Carnifex benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adreal Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 I'm hesitant about the infiltrate stratagem, it's cool that we can get units nice and close, but it costs a command point each time, so looseing the in game support of the other stratagems to get close. Against tau and guard first turn charges are nice I suppose, but unless you are killing what you need to your infiltrating units will probably die very easily. Granted I am looking at it with my current list, which has long and close range shooting, very little combat troops, which makes it less appealing to me, but I just see it as a kill this unit invitation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemisor Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 just to take a break from the codex discussion, i have an important question ive started a new AL force using the Primaris marines that some of you may have seen ( imperial iconography removed of course ). the question i have is, considering how huge Primaris marines look next to rhinos.....and...well everything else, do you think i should use them as actual primaris marines with RG rules or use them as counts as with the new chaos dex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 just to take a break from the codex discussion, i have an important question ive started a new AL force using the Primaris marines that some of you may have seen ( imperial iconography removed of course ). the question i have is, considering how huge Primaris marines look next to rhinos.....and...well everything else, do you think i should use them as actual primaris marines with RG rules or use them as counts as with the new chaos dex? Short answer - yes that is ok to use them as Primaris Marines using the Raven Guard rules BUT only if your opponent is okay with this Better answer - yes as Primaris Raven Guard but maybe they are a successor chapter with hints of using Alpha Legion Geneseed...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun03 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Good point on the 20man sq, it does need to be more like a distraction carnflex than a hammer. Obviously it's going to come down to mission lay out and the type of list you facing. Havocs would be another contender but than you forced to take more than 5 to offset casualties. I am lending towards making a list were each of my infantry units could be used in FO role depending on what i am up against. This way I'm not forcing my self in to disadvantage by bring unit that wont maximize the FO rule. That dread list looks potent, one thing i tried out the other day and had good results with was contemptor with duel soulburners, losing a CC weapon is big drawback i know, auto wounds stack up quickly and as long as it supported and doesn't get force in to fight it can hold its own. You can run Primaris marines as XX, they where already said to be the tallest legion and more genetically fit than the other legions. In some 30k circles people bitch that off scale, but than do you really want to play against people who nit picking about plastic army men? It's not like you're modeling for advantage or using a loop hole to win/play. You can build a force up pretty quickly and on the cheaper side if you don't mind snap fit as eBay will be flooded with them over the coming months. One thing about the XX is you can build to two armies at once, one for useing chaos codex and the other normal space codex, and fits the backstory just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Submarine Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 The infiltrating strategem is a strange one because it doesn't synergise well with the legion rules which rewards staying back, but i guess could be used on a unit that wouldn't normally benefit from the legion rule. But in the end legion rules tend to direct you towards a stand back sort of army dont they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 The infiltrating strategem is a strange one because it doesn't synergise well with the legion rules which rewards staying back, but i guess could be used on a unit that wouldn't normally benefit from the legion rule. But in the end legion rules tend to direct you towards a stand back sort of army dont they? Errrrm, look at what I wrote about five or six posts up? Infiltrating doesn't have to be right on the 9" line from the enemy, you know. Think outside the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Plus chaos space marines in general aren't really a stay back and shoot army. I mean sure you can make a gunline of havocs/predators but they doesn't sound terribly interesting and it's also not really taking advantage of the full strength of csm. I think the AL trait is best seen as a way to keep your units safe until they get into assault range, not as a trait that forces you to play a gunline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mika_angelus Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 I played first game with the new codex today, and the trait bonus was great for my havoc fire base, and for my forward element of the army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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