++ The Brotherhood of Dust - A Thousand Sons Community ++

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

 

QUESTION TIME!

As a lot of Thousand Sons players have indicated on these forums that a TS CAD may be the way to go I was wondering what CSM units with VotLW would you include in the CAD that could take advantage of the special rules in question(Fear and +1 INV when a blessing is cast on a VotLW squad)?

 

Terminators with an assortment of gear. With the TS relic they can become very very fast.

 

I was actually looking at posessed to protect our Sorcerors or maybe for a Sorceror CC madness build...3+/3++ anyone?

[Scammel]

Not sure where you're getting Fear from - are you thinking of the Sekhmet formation?

 

Bikers and Obliterators strike as standout units that go beyond the capabilities of the Grand Coven, and Cultists grant a significant saving over Tzaangors if you need to shave points badly.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

If you take a cad and make it a Thousand Sons formation, all units(or just the VotlW units) gain Fear and if they are affected by a blessing, say Force, they get +1 on there invulnerable save.

[Xenith]

, and Cultists grant a significant saving over Tzaangors if you need to shave points badly.

Not really, as you have to give all the cultists the MoT.

 

Obbies or muties with the jump relic seem good options for bodyguards,

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Keep it coming Xenith! I need to buy something to go with my new Rubrics!

[Lord Abaia]

If you take a cad and make it a Thousand Sons formation, all units(or just the VotlW units) gain Fear and if they are affected by a blessing, say Force, they get +1 on there invulnerable save.

I'm not sure where you are getting Fear from. I'm looking at the Forces of the Thousand Sons section in Traitor Legions and I see that any Thousand Sons detachment (a CAD) gains 1)"Blessings of Tzeentch" the +1 invuln for being the target of a blessing, 2)"Blood Feud" with Space Wolves, 3)Rubric Marines as troops, and 4)Thousand Sons warlord trait and relics.

 

From what I can see Thousand Sons only get Fear through the Sekhmet Conclave formation. Which whatever, Fear is a pretty negligible USR.

 

To answer your question I would be looking at units with built in invuln saves so that the +1 from MoT and the +1 from the blessings amounts to something decent. That will mostly be any of the units with the Daemon USR, which interestingly enough comes with built in Fear. Daemon Princes, Possessed, Terminators, Mutilators, Obliterators, Warp Talons, Heldrakes, Maulerfiends, Forgefiends, and Defilers all start with a 5++ and would get you the most out of the Thousand Sons special rules if they are accompanied by a psyker.

 

Terminators look like a really strong choice. A 3++ Warp Talons entourage for a jump sorcerer with Seers Bane is cool enough to offset the dubious utility of Warp Talons in general. I hear a lot about Forgefiends and divination sorcerers being a fun combo.

[Archaeinox]

Does the sorcerer count as a friendly model for powers he manifests *after* he gets Siphon off or is that grasping for straws?

[Scammel]

 

, and Cultists grant a significant saving over Tzaangors if you need to shave points badly.

Not really, as you have to give all the cultists the MoT.

I personally consider the Twistbray to be mandatory, so you're looking at 20pts a pop. Not huge, but it's the kind of thing that can help pay for a relic or piece of kit for some Scarabs.

[Xenith]

I thought MoT was 2ppm making 10 MoT cultists 70pts and 10 Tzaangors with twist 80pts?

[totgeboren]

Nah, MoT is just 1 ppm. So the minimum cost of 10 Tzaangors vs 10 Cultists is 10 pts lower for the cultists.

[Charlo]

Mutilators with a 3++ and Jump relic Sorcerer support is SCARY - especially as you could bring that warpsmith formation that lets them get extra rounds of combat in, which also opens up oblits for fun little deep striking shooty units.

 

Goodbye AV - my wall of T5 2W 3++ S10 Armourbane Psychic War Golems would like a word.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Mutilators with a 3++ and Jump relic Sorcerer support is SCARY - especially as you could bring that warpsmith formation that lets them get extra rounds of combat in, which also opens up oblits for fun little deep striking shooty units.

 

Goodbye AV - my wall of T5 2W 3++ S10 Armourbane Psychic War Golems would like a word.

now were talking! I knew it would take a fellow BA player to unlock some of these shenanigans!

[Scammel]

I'm intrigued as to how the Mutilators are getting S and T5? Are you angling for a specific power?

[Prot]

I've discovered multi SIphon's in one squad is something very potent on ML 3 psykers and/or Ahriman.

 

I've had a situation where they keep feeding each other more warp charges, and until this point I thought actually having the bonus cast on the army with the Formation bonus was kind of useless on anything with more than one ML.

 

But these guys kept feeding each other warp charges. Typically I've been finding Thousand Sons actually require a very large dice pool compared to Grey Knights, or LibCon. They seem the most inneficient with the dice during the Psychic phase so having Siphon up and running has been much more welcome than I thought.

 

The problem I found is if you use 2 dice, that means you need 2 powers to go off elsewhere just to break even! Plus you've used a cast, so you might down to one or two left. It's a very strange power. 

 

I'm at a point where if I get it, I chuck a die at it. If it goes off great, if not I move on. 

[Charlo]

I'm intrigued as to how the Mutilators are getting S and T5? Are you angling for a specific power?

I forgot that they are only S/T4 base... Shut up :P

 

I'm a loyalist Damnit, not a doctor!

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Could we have a discussion on Psychic Powers and the Psychic Phase for those of us who have yet to field a Psychic Army?

 

Specifically what powers are you aiming for and what Psychic Builds should we as Thousand Sons be looking at?

[Charlo]

Could we have a discussion on Psychic Powers and the Psychic Phase for those of us who have yet to field a Psychic Army?

 

Specifically what powers are you aiming for and what Psychic Builds should we as Thousand Sons be looking at?

Yes please, especially with the sheer access of disciplines to Arhiman and the like it's crazy. Sure we all know pyro is never being taken but what about the rest? Though, Arhiman with Pyro against Genestealer cults might be what you need... Triple Sun Burst! BugsBeGone!

 

Some are saying Arhiman with Heretech is great and I can see why... Guaranteed to get at least one power that easily strips Hull points that you can shoot off up to 3 times. In a perfect world you'll roll all three HP removing powers in a 1KSons detachment and be able to cast one 3 times and then the other two.

 

Bye Knights.

 

Again, with Arhiman Telepathy is quite nice - letting off 3 Shrieks can KO even the broken Wraithknight and the shrouding and mental fortitude powers are rather nice - especially when you surround him with Tzangors that start to have marine defensive stats and become fearless. Plus the little spell that I abhor, invisibility.

 

Divination is obviously solid with Prescience making those Hellfire missiles and Soul Reapers hit home, as well as buffing Dinobots and Tanks. Scarab Occult Overwatching at full BS is mega scary, you can bless Tzangor to a 3++ instantly with forewarning. Perfect timing gives ignire cover to SO which is obviously pure money. Pre-cog means your psyker buffs himself to 3+ and gets to reroll all his stuff. Giving all your guns rending against a nasty tough unit of 2+ is good and Gaze gives you the meta advantage.

 

Biomancy gives us some usefulness in making sorcerers on disks into flying combat monsters, or giving SO FNP4+ to make them truly unkillable dust-men. Enfeeble helps AP3 bolters go further. I'd use this on squad leader sorcs mainly.

[Minsc]

I like Sinistrum as well.

 

Fury of the Gods (Primaris) is abit superfluous, but fits the AP3 theme of the army.

 

Warp Fate (reroll saves) is downright crazy and is the main reason why I roll for powers in this discipline. 

 

Empyhrageist is OK anti-horde.

 

Armour of Hatred is great for triggering multiple Tzeentch's Blessing if you have units in close proximity. Also great for Tzaangors.

 

Diabloic Strenght is a good self-buff for our (Exalted) Sorcerers and Daemon Princes.

 

Warp Lure means that enemy psykers will quickly be eliminated from the game, solidifying our psychic might.

(Swap for Primaris if your opponent doesn't have any psykers.)

 

Death Hex has great synergy with our AP3-spamm.

[Prot]

I have always liked Sinistrum with my Grey Knights. (Librarius)

 

I started off my Thousand Sons always using that power somewhere but I found I really only liked it with Warp Fate. (although I admit the buff is is nice for triggering the +1 invuln). The problem I found is Sinistrum really didn't have a heck of a lot that I used against non-psyker armies.

 

For right now I only pull out Sinistrum against psyker armies. Otherwise I seem to get along better with Bioamancy for having better overall synergy. But again I'm still experimenting.

 

 

 

++++++

 

Just had another game against Astra. The opening turns looked very bad... as usual. Heretch saved my butt. The reality is we were both annihilated. He had many chances at blowing Ahriman's head off with an Assassin. I just took giant risks because without Ahriman being aggressive I was going to probably get tabled because nothing says....

 

"Tzaangor Chicken Wings for supper!" like Pask in a punisher with a plasma-cutioner in the squadron. 

 

Forgefiend update: 

Lasted one turn. Put him in a corned. Hit on 50% of his shots... didn't kill anything. Was one shotted next turn by an Assassin. 

 

This game I did get away from my addiction to Scarab Occult and went with the War Cabal. Not hot on those Rubrics, but at least they are bodies? (dust bodies?)

 

My Highlight of the game: Using Heretch to take control of a single gun on one of his Wyvern squadron. I used it to wack a squad of deep striking dudes that came out of a flyer and was preventing me from scoring 2 Maelstrom points (I had no ObSec).

[Charlo]

Okay yeah - thinking about it Sinestrum is pretty baller too for an all around - sure you could roll Warp Lure - but in that case you just use that casting slot for force or something.

 

AS for one question I'm sure has been answered... But generating powers on Arhiman and Exalted, or anything ML2+

 

One Roll on Tzeench Minimum (can be all), can swap for Primaris

Up to X rolls on X tables for each lore you want to try

If X is one, you get focus and gain the Primaris

 

So Arhiman rolling on Sinestrum could for example could know:

 

Breath of Chaos

Warp Fate

Death Hex

Diablois Strength

(Fury of the Gods)

[Minsc]

 

One Roll on Tzeench Minimum (can be all), can swap for Primaris

Up to X rolls on X tables for each lore you want to try

If X is one, you get focus and gain the Primaris

 

 

?

 

Don't we get the Tzeentch-primaris for free since we're forced to roll at least once on Discipline of Tzeentch, but it's also the only primaris we can get for "free"?

[Charlo]

I have no idea, that's why I'm asking....!

[Emicus]

Surely you only get the primaris for 'free' when all spells are drawn from the same discipline?

[Aasfresser]

Chaos Space Marines get only their alligned gods primaris for free if they habe a mark, see the rule 'Chaos Focus'. Because they are always forced to roll on the god powers and van then switch, they would never get a primaris, only when they stick with Thier gods. So since 7th (I think) there is now the Chaos Focus rule which allies them to always get the primaris of their alligned gods powers.

 

For Ahriman it would be:

Tzeentch Primaris ("free")

1 roll on Tzeentch (minimum)

3 rolls in whatever you like

[Scammel]

I think Sinistrum should be reserved for focused Terminator lists in larger games where you can take a punt on multiple Sorcerers. With such a list, Warp Fate becomes absolutely psychotic, resulting in a save that's literally on the verge of being the best mechanically feasible save in the entire game. Beyond this though, a large portion of the discipline is somewhat situational and PML aren't that cheap to come by, especially when we're forced into rolling on Tzeentch.

 

In a typical all-comers, mixed-unit list, I'd be looking for good Primaris powers or more well-rounded disciplines rather than taking a punt on a high-level power. Presicence, Psychic Shriek, potentially Summoning and the entirety of Biomancy spring to mind.

 

Ahriman can happily slot into either style of list. He's obviously the best shot we have at said punt on Warp Fate, Invisibility et al, but he can also make very good use of multiple Primaris himself.