++ The Brotherhood of Dust - A Thousand Sons Community ++

[Aasfresser]

Do I see this correctly: the Thousand Sons Grand Coven does not have ObSec? Or is this something formations or detachements get from the core rule book?

[Khornestar]

Are regular Sorcerers in Thousand Sons detachments able to roll on Divination now?

[Aasfresser]

Are regular Sorcerers in Thousand Sons detachments able to roll on Divination now?

Nope, unfortunately not.

[Khornestar]

Dang! There goes one idea. Oh well, can still give a terminator annihilation force a 3++ by casting force.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Do I see this correctly: the Thousand Sons Grand Coven does not have ObSec? Or is this something formations or detachements get from the core rule book?

Yup, no Ob Sec.

 

The BA have the same problem.

[Raven1]

Do I see this correctly: the Thousand Sons Grand Coven does not have ObSec? Or is this something formations or detachements get from the core rule book?

 

Yes, you would have to run a CAD to get ObjSec

 

Are regular Sorcerers in Thousand Sons detachments able to roll on Divination now?

 

I believe so yes.  My book is still in the mail.

[Dusktiger]

Sorcerer's are only referenced in the book and don't have their own datasheet in the Wrath of Magnus book.  So whatever powerset they had access to beforehand, hasn't changed.

 

That said, i don't have a copy of Traitor's Hate;  if they updated the list in there, then that's the list to use for what powers a sorcerer can use.

 

Exalted Sorcerers, on the other hand, get Biomancy, Daemonology (Malefic), Divination, Ectomancy, Geomortis, Heretech, Pyromancy, Sinistrum, Telekinesis, Telepathy, and the expanded Tzeentch disciplines.  Same list as Ahriman, btw.

 

I'll see if i can borrow someone's copy of Traiter's Hate and see what, if any, changes it made to the sorcerers.

[Malicious Manticore]

Traitor's Hate did not give Chaos Sorcerers (as in the HQ choice from Codex: Chaos Space Marines) access to Divination. It did give them access to the four new disciplines introduced in Traitor's Hate (and subsequently mirrored in Wrath of Magnus). As it stands, Chaos Sorcerers have access to Biomancy, Daemonology (note: it does not specify Malefic only), Pyromancy, Telepathy, Sinistrum, Heretech, Ectomancy, and Geomortis.

[Minsc]

(I made the same post at Dakka, so apologies if you've already read it before.)
 

So the Favoured of Tzeentch bonus in the War Cabal is cruel joke or tease from GW's part right?

 

You can fit it in at 2000 pts if you run everything almost completely naked (not advisable), and even at 2500 pts it just looks...meh. 

 

I made this list for "fun", but I only ended up depressed;

 

War Cabal;

 

Ahriman

 

Sorcerer /w MoT, +2 ML, Aura of Dark Glory.

Sorcerer /w MoT, +2 ML, Aura of Dark Glory.

Sorcerer /w MoT, +2 ML, Aura of Dark Glory.

 

5x Rubric Marines + Rhino.

5x Rubric Marines + Rhino.

5x Rubric Marines + Rhino.

 

5x Scarab Occult Terminators /w Soulreaper and Cannon Helfyre Missile Rack.

5x Scarab Occult Terminators /w Soulreaper and Cannon Helfyre Missile Rack.

5x Scarab Occult Terminators /w Soulreaper and Cannon Helfyre Missile Rack.

 

Auxilliaries;

 

1x Forgefiend /w Hades Autocannons.

1x Helbrute /w Multimelta.

1x Chaos Vindicator.

 

2500 pts on the nose.

34 infantry models  >_<

6 vehicles.

22 ML's (the only remotely impressive thing in the list.)

 

Now honestly, I'm not a competetive player, and this list can probably be tweaked abit, but even I enjoy winning once and awhile, and quite frankly, I cant see myself winning against any other (normal) 2500 pts list with this.

 

With that said, I'll probably field a War Cabal from time to time, but only for Oracular Guidance and so I can field a War Coven.

[Charlo]

It's a fluff rule - that is why it is up to 9 units. Slaanesh/ Nurgle/ Khorne have similar formations for 6/7/8... 

 

But hey - we need 45 Terminators so that they can be as blessed by Tzeench as a single Horror!

[Minsc]

Probably. I can't ever see myself going for a Full War Coven, Warherd, Sehkmet Conclave, Ahriman's Exiles or Rehati War Sect for that forumation bonus.

 

Astral Grimoire seems like a hidden gem though.

It's main use is probably on Occult Terminators, but I can't wait to try it out on Possessed or Mutilators. :)

[Excessus]

The grand coven doesn't have that useful benefits in the TL supplement. I'm thinking grabbing Ahriman in a regular warband, having the Seer's Bane on a beefed up lord would be cool (he would need someone else to activate the force though).

 

What are the rules for the scarab occult termies? Can you exchange regular termies for them or do they only exist in the formations?

[Minsc]

The grand coven doesn't have that useful benefits in the TL supplement. I'm thinking grabbing Ahriman in a regular warband, having the Seer's Bane on a beefed up lord would be cool (he would need someone else to activate the force though).

 

What are the rules for the scarab occult termies? Can you exchange regular termies for them or do they only exist in the formations?

 

Agreed. I'll probably end up running a CAD more often than not when playing Thousand Sons. The Grand Coven bonuses aren't really worth all the hassle unless you're gonna use the units required in the first place anyway. Rerolling PotW results and being able to manifest one more power than normally allowed is hardly gamebreaking. Now if our sorcerers generated one more warpcharge than usuall....woah, then we'd almost be on par with some of the other legions.

 

I was thinking of putting the Seer's Bane on a Chaos Lord as well, but I'm not sure what's ideal;

Chaos Lord /w MoT, Seer's Bane, Sigil of Corruption - 145 pts

Exalted Sorcerer /w Seer's Bane - 200 pts

For 55 points more you loose one point of WS, but you gain Psyker (so he can activate force himself), a Mastery Level and Coruscating Beam.

I guess if you're short on points, go with the Lord, and if you got points to spare (rarely happens in this army), go with the Exalted Sorcerer and deck him out some more? (More ML's, Spell Familiar, etc.)

 

Scarab Occult Terminators can be taken as a elite choice outside of formations.

 

Nothing prevents you from taking regular MoT Terminators in a CAD though, but there are no formations for them.

 

 

 

[Excessus]

I'm gonna have Ahriman so I'll keep the lords invul at 5+ plus MoZ. I'm expecting ahriman to have divination and throw blessings around, and thew lord still benefits from the +1 to invul...and maybe on a disc together with some spawns...or maybe with a terminator squad and in termie armour (I've heard 2+/3++ is pretty decent, lol).

[Ethrion]

I might just redact all mention of 'Favoured of Tzeentch' from my Wrath of Magnus book just to pretend it never existed and so doesn't tempt me to attain it. We didn't have it before so we can live without it now.

 

I really want to fit in as many TS units as possible but still maintain a decent balance in the list. Having a few daemons running about would also be nice (not to abuse summoning spam/splitting horrors). Also, rule of cool dictates that I must use Ahriman and must have some rubricae. Oh and maybe get Magnus in there too...

[Excessus]

Lets see, Lord in termie armour and Seer's Bane, lvl 3 sorcerer in termie armour, familiar and Astral Grimoire. A squad of termies with assorted equipment to escort them and you have a nice little 2+/3++ blob that moves like jump infantry and absolutely annihilates anything it touches.

 

 

As another question, how would people roll for Ahriman nowadays? Fish in the Tzeentch-lake for the D-power and save one roll for the divination primaris? Maybe save another roll for scream?

[Scammel]

Telepathy primaris, Divination primaris, hope for a flukey Biomancy roll.

 

Edit: It's also occurred that you don't desperately need​ Force on Seer's Bane against many opponents. Unless I'm missing something, you're always S10 against non-vehicle opponents, even for ID purposes, so Warbosses et al are still toast. Obviously, you still want to make a beeline for Riptides and the like, but it gives you that bit more flexibility in terms of supporting a Lord.

[hivey]

Would geomortis be good? That power that gives ignore cover to a unit seems great for our ap3 bolters

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Lets see, Lord in termie armour and Seer's Bane, lvl 3 sorcerer in termie armour, familiar and Astral Grimoire. A squad of termies with assorted equipment to escort them and you have a nice little 2+/3++ blob that moves like jump infantry and absolutely annihilates anything it touches.

 

 

As another question, how would people roll for Ahriman nowadays? Fish in the Tzeentch-lake for the D-power and save one roll for the divination primaris? Maybe save another roll for scream?

 

I would suggest that you have a chainfist on one of your termie characters in case an Imperial Knight comes knocking and you don't have the right buff powers active to reliably crack Armor 13 with Force Staves and Power Swords. You may be moving at 12 in, but Knights can cut off the table surprisingly fast, and you can't always count on powers to take them out.

 

Also, there's no strength D power in the Tzeentch Discipline. That's in Change.

[Prot]

Sorry to ask this noobish question, but bear with me....

 

If you don't like playing with Daemons, nor Magnus, and you want to use the detachment, what are your options for 'filler'?

 

Is there anything aside from Tzaangors? Or are you looking at a super duper small model count otherwise?

 

Also silly question.... I originally bought BoP hoping to use those MK3 marines for something. What could these guys be used for? ( I actually bought the conversion kit and doors and decals from forgeworld in anticipation of this... is it realistically usable?)

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

So i know we have talked about a lot pf cants...but what can these formations do? What are you looking forward to doing on the field of battle with them?

 

Im loving the improved invulnerable saves and still struggling with how to play exalted sorcerors. Anyone think these could be a mini harrasment unit a la hive tyrants for nids?

[Lord Abaia]

I came up with a "rule of cool" list today to try and shoehorn in a whole bunch of cool stuff into a list.

 

I'd run a small Grand Coven with a small CAD on the side.

 

War Cabal:1130 pts

Ahriman on disc: 260

10 man Rubric Marines with Soul Reaper:290

Scarab Occult Termies with warpflamer: 265

ML2 Jump Sorcerer with Aura and Seer's Bane: 170 (goes with warptalons)

ML2 Sorcerer with Aura and Astral Grimoire: 145 (goes with termies)

 

CAD:465 points

ML2 Sorcerer with Aura and Helm of the Third Eye: 135 (goes with rubrics)

10x Tzaangors: 70

10x Tzaangors: 70

5x Warptalons with MoT: 190

 

That leaves me with 255 points for chaos predators or something as an Auxiliary choice to fit in an 1850 list. It's not competitive but it has all the cool stuff I want in it and might be fun.

[Raven1]

I had this idea today. Raptor Talon and heldrake terror pack, and the equip the Lord with the Seer's Bane. I think it could work combine the leadership debuffs with the weapon that compares leadership for its to-wound roll.

[Excessus]

 

Lets see, Lord in termie armour and Seer's Bane, lvl 3 sorcerer in termie armour, familiar and Astral Grimoire. A squad of termies with assorted equipment to escort them and you have a nice little 2+/3++ blob that moves like jump infantry and absolutely annihilates anything it touches.

 

 

As another question, how would people roll for Ahriman nowadays? Fish in the Tzeentch-lake for the D-power and save one roll for the divination primaris? Maybe save another roll for scream?

 

I would suggest that you have a chainfist on one of your termie characters in case an Imperial Knight comes knocking and you don't have the right buff powers active to reliably crack Armor 13 with Force Staves and Power Swords. You may be moving at 12 in, but Knights can cut off the table surprisingly fast, and you can't always count on powers to take them out.

 

Also, there's no strength D power in the Tzeentch Discipline. That's in Change.

 

 

Well yeah, CFs are in the assorted equipment departement for the termies. Now that I think about it though, the sorcerer can just cast force for the unit to receive the +1 invul save (which would activate the lords force as well to instakill those MCs, haha).

 

Aww, I can't keep track of the new powers. So is there nothing fun in the new tzeentch powers then? Is it still a tax?

[Ethrion]

 

 

Lets see, Lord in termie armour and Seer's Bane, lvl 3 sorcerer in termie armour, familiar and Astral Grimoire. A squad of termies with assorted equipment to escort them and you have a nice little 2+/3++ blob that moves like jump infantry and absolutely annihilates anything it touches.

 

 

As another question, how would people roll for Ahriman nowadays? Fish in the Tzeentch-lake for the D-power and save one roll for the divination primaris? Maybe save another roll for scream?

 

I would suggest that you have a chainfist on one of your termie characters in case an Imperial Knight comes knocking and you don't have the right buff powers active to reliably crack Armor 13 with Force Staves and Power Swords. You may be moving at 12 in, but Knights can cut off the table surprisingly fast, and you can't always count on powers to take them out.

 

Also, there's no strength D power in the Tzeentch Discipline. That's in Change.

 

 

Well yeah, CFs are in the assorted equipment departement for the termies. Now that I think about it though, the sorcerer can just cast force for the unit to receive the +1 invul save (which would activate the lords force as well to instakill those MCs, haha).

 

Aww, I can't keep track of the new powers. So is there nothing fun in the new tzeentch powers then? Is it still a tax?

 

I really like that idea of a terminator unit, will have to give it a go.

 

As for the Tzeentch discipline, breath of chaos is still nice to have, baleful devolution is a S6 AP2 Assault D6 (which is nice), and there's always doombolt. The Treason of Tzeentch is interesting - take control of a unit and fire with its weapons. So in all, it's not a bad table to roll on but I reckon biomancy, divination, and telepathy are still better.