++ The Brotherhood of Dust - A Thousand Sons Community ++

[Archaeinox]

Well, a bolter will wound a Predator on 5+ but against a Vindicator, it needs 6+. So if you want a tougher tank, go Vindicator.. 

 

Havoc Launchers are worth it on predators because of its 48" range. Save the 11pts on your Rhinos, though... They should be advancing.

[Zodd1888]

I love Havoc Launchers. They're a great answer to spam and are so inexpensive.

 

Regarding the Rhino, I actually like combi-melta if I've got the points. Advancing in gets me the half range for melta.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

So having tomorrow off from work so I can sort out paying the deposit for my new accommodation, I'm planning to go into GW after and then to the gaming club afterwards to try and get my first games of 8th in, thinking of running these:

Thousand sons battle forged army
Battalion 

Ahriman
Exalted sorcerer 

Aspiring sorcerer Belshazzar  with force sword, Inferno bolt pistol, 1 rubric with soulreaper cannon, 8 with inferno boltguns
Aspiring Sorcerer Curinir with force staff, Inferno bolt pistol, one rubric with soulreaper cannon, 8 with inferno boltguns
Aspiring sorcerer Ptolemy with force sword, Inferno pistol. one rubric with warpflamer, 3 with inferno boltguns
Tiamat Ra, Hellbrute with Twin lascannon and missile launcher
999pts
for 1500 I'd add a scarab occult squad, another 4 rubrics for Ptolemy and a 5 strong Scarab Occult squad with hellfyre missiles.
Here;s hoping Perils doesn;t destroy me utterly :P

[Archaeinox]

Let us know how it goes and don't forget that Prescience is 18" range! Give you lots of leeway with how you deploy. 

 

So you're at 6 CPs? Take the Warlord Trait that gives Ahriman the 6+ ignore wounds and save your CPs for psychic tests/perils

[Skerr]

So Arch, all the experts at Frontline and Mini wargaming say that the rules really start to make sense after about 10 games.  No make sense in learning how to play but makes sense in understanding the nuances of movement, cc positioning etc... and it all plays out.

 

Do you or anyone notice anything or have any epiphanies 9-12 games in?

[Archaeinox]

Hm. Yeah, I think I can agree with your statements there.

 

I think the biggest takeaways after having so many games in (not to brag, just a fact since I have the gaming store and got demo copies asap), is that we need to take every rule as literal as possible, use Suspension of Disbelief and freaking forget 7th ed...

 

For real, it's such a simple ruleset yet people in my store have been trying to hold fliers in reserve and telling people they have to charge what they shoot at...

 

I will walk away from a customer at the register and just plop the Core Rules down right in front of someone. ITS LIKE EIGHT PAGES, READ IT

 

lol.

 

I have been having a blast with 8th. I'd say 50% of my games were Power Levels only and I rarely experienced an issue. We were just trying to play the game and learn the rules so winning is not a big deal yet.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

So first game was against 4 5 man tactical squads, two librarians and a knight, one on objectives and killing the warlord, and mad managed to take the knight down to 6 wounds.
 

Second game I used the same list against Death guard, 20 zombies and typhus, 2 hellbrutes, drone, 2 ten strong plgue units with 3 plasma guns. 

I lost horribly, between the debuffs from Typhus (Ahriman just could;t dispell, even with command points) almost every other wound being saved by disgustingly resiliant (at one point the drone saved 8 out of 9 wounds in one go) and the sheer damage Typhus can do and him getting in combat turn two (he rolled 6's for all his turn one advancements and succeded every charge even when 10/11 incesh were needed). honestly debating refusing to play Death guard, as Nurgle players pretty much have always had it easy, but now they pretty much blow every other chaos legion out of the water and have an easy time, seriously that army plays itself and Typhus makes Ahriman look so bad.

Third game was 1500pts against dark angels,I hadded a rhino with havok launcher, combi bolter and combi plasma, a dread with fist and plasma cannon and scarab occult squad with hellfyre missiles.
He had Azreal, belial, 2 5 strong deathwing squads, 4 ten strong squad which combat squaded (and were thus immune to moral effectively).
Never have I been more disappointed in a squad like I am with the Scarab occult, they killed a few mariens when they strunk in, failed there charge and proceeded to be wiped out in one turn by the deathwing as power fists are crazily powerful with striking first. the plasma dread only did one wound the whole game and that was to itself, need to get  twin heavy bolter or multie melta arm for him as the Plasma cannon option might as well not exist on the dread now.

The scarb occult... are worse then rubrics now, as they now have as good an invulnerable save as any other terminator but are far more expensive and the weapons people will use on them mean "All is dust" is "All is useless" and the weapons you have to pay for and whilst swords are good, don;t match up at all against the Thunder hammer/storm shield, power fist or lightning claw combos every other terminator type can take. As owning 15 of them due to WOM, I'm disappointed and tad pissed. I'm expecting to DG to get Cataphracti armour so I guess they will have invun saves and feel no pain whilst the Scarab occult have being the worst terminators in the game.

Decent Invulnerable saves were missed, as was a psychic phase beyond spamming smite once I got in range. Melta bombs on aspiring sorcerers was missed. Staves seem genuinely the worst power weapon now as against most things an axe will wound just as easily whilst actually being able to get through the armour.

I'm really trying to be positive, and I guess rubricea are now far better, but the rest of the army, especially the Scarab occult feel like they have been neutered with a Cheesegrater whilst other armies like Tau or Death Guard got the effort to actually work put it.
So we can deal with Toughness 4 power armour basic marines, but that;s it and we don;t even have the Psychic rules to make up for that.

[Archaeinox]

Yes I agree on Scarab Occult and I am not surprised at all that you feel that way. 

 

I went from using 3 units of Scarab Occult in every list since December to using 20 Rubric Marines and 1-2 Scarab Occult in the past few weeks.

 

What a change!

 

Now, there is a big reason to use them- Rubrics can't drop behind the enemy. There is nothing else in the Thousand Sons arsenal that can do that with the stuff SOTs have. Don't say Abbaddon or combat terminators, 'cause you can bet a "pure TS army" won't have access to that once they release them codex books.

 

good job playing those games, bud

[Prot]

Well personally I don't like "All is Dust" at all when put side by side with how we used to be able to manipulate invluns. What you're experiencing (in my opinion) is the difference between a 3++ invlun and a 5++ invuln. 

 

To me it's night and day, because as I've said in my meta, the issue is a ton of APX weapons rendering armour moot. Now if those fists hit all those termies of yours with 3++ instead could you have delivered some pain back? Fists are very strong, and are more common now. Now more than ever we really needed that 3++. Deathwing Knights are super strong too (How on earth did they retain 3++ and we lost it??). 

 

I'm not a huge fan of the Force Stave, and I do like the Axe, however the staves are good with Termies. I agree with Arch though as far as roles are concerned there is VERY (almost pathetically so) for us to do for deep range threat from Thousand Sons units.... I keep saying this but the Baledrake is one of the all stars in the codex... move 30, flame on, assault, repeat. Go after flyers, retreat, keep shooting... it's a fast unit that can help where Thousand Sons are super weak.

 

I don't know if I agree the termies are that bad though... maybe they are. I don't like them as much, but I'm not so sold on Rubrics either. 

 

Thanks for the batreps. I appreciate the insights!

[Sonoftherubric21]

Wow. So do I just COMPLETELY lack perspective here? Or does my meta suck? 

 

I personally don't use the Scarab Occult as melee, that is not what they are.  They are a SHOOTING terminator unit. plain and simple.

 

The amount of ranged threat they can put out is incredibly dangerous, even a 5 man puts out considerable ranged threat for a relatively well costed unit. Ill sacrifice the 3++ all day to make the unit actually FUNCTION PROPERLY.  

Rubricae I do agree are "better" then scarab occult for a few reasons, but you aren't meant to "spam" scarab occult, you are meant to have a few.  5-10 at most, perhaps 20 in a 2500+ level game. (I own 25, i feel your pain lol)

 

All is Dust to me has proved incredibly valuable, On the RUBRICAE. it forces your opponent to fire anti-tank weapons at your BASIC infantry to stand any kind of good chance of making damage stick; most of the time our invuls are a 5++ re-rolling 1's, giving you (roughly) a 40% chance at saving any single Rubric/Scarab from dieing to an AP shot. Which is STILL a good save.  

 

As you all know; most AP heavy shots are also multi-damage shots, as such its only logical that Rubricae are better, as....go ahead...fire your las cannons and missile launchers at my 1 wound 5++ models.....  If a scarab occult fails that 40% chance to save....it hurts far far more. 

To me "all is dust" is probably one of the best rules in 8th....If you are firing AT weaponry at my BASIC INFANTRY I have already won.  

 

I also don't quite get the "scarab occult are so bad" right now, given the ranged threat they output and now they can drop anywhere on the table turn 1/2/3 against opportune targets, many of which Rubricae would have issues with.  

 

However a minor disclaimer; I have played Scarab Occult in exactly ONE game.  I have played played Rubricae in well over a dozen, so perhaps thats where my misconceptions come in, maybe "all is dust" is just more useful on models that are more plentiful?  Perhaps. 

[Sonoftherubric21]

Added bonus; Confirmed by Forgeworld....we have full access to Thousand Sons stuff in the FW index; anything legion based is added to our list of takeable units.......Hello thousand sons Sicaran/Dreads/Leviathans/Deredeos!!!!!! Yes please.....

 

Also; Some people on Facebook started bombarding Forgeworld with "Why cant we take the Osirion?" and supposedly they passed it on to the Rules team from FW, so they have been notified there are people who will gladly buy it....assuming we can use it. 

Happy day, and a tiny chance at a Psyker Contemptor someday making it into our list! 

[Prot]

That's great news, but as soon as those amazing forgeworld Thousand Son walkers came out, I was holding off on using any forgeworld until we got rules for those.

[Skerr]

Hmmm interesting to hear thought on SOTS. I see both perspectives and see their best use as sonofrubric said as ranged threat and then if needed close combat harassing and mop up though like the rest of the army should not go up against dedicated cc units. I see they lost icon of flame. Not a big deal but I have 3 on 3 termies.

I am still finishing up my Sekomet Conclave though that formation is moot I can't bring myself to shelf the final 5 even though I plan on only 2 units of 5 or a large single unit.

 

Anyone used a Land Raiden yet? Just because we may not utilize assault does not mean they are not awesome support.

[Heliomanes]

I like the Scarab Occult much better than the Rubricae. I think people forget how much of a boon the teleportation is now that transports are quite expensive. I'll also add that they have great synergy with warp time - and you don't have to use it to get _closer_ to the enemy all the time. Do what suits you best at that particuar moment.

[ChaosReigns]

Hey guys,

 

What's the opinion around here on Warpflamers and Warpflame Pistols on Rubric Marines? How many, if any, would it be best to take in a unit of ten Rubric Marines?

 

The Warpflame Pistols in particular are quite inexpensive, and seem pretty worthwhile.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Hey guys,

 

What's the opinion around here on Warpflamers and Warpflame Pistols on Rubric Marines? How many, if any, would it be best to take in a unit of ten Rubric Marines?

 

The Warpflame Pistols in particular are quite inexpensive, and seem pretty worthwhile.

 

I have truly fallen in love with the Warpflame pistols, It brings a standard 10 man unit up by 6 points, to a hefty 249 if you are taking 10 + reaper + Stave using Aspiring, but really when your getting THIS close to the enemy (our sweetspot is 12 inchs where possible) it allows us to actually get D6 hits that can really help in a protracted combat. 

 

You lose what? maybe 3-4 bolt pistol shots? in exchange for D6 roll per applicable turn where in melee/very close. So its pretty great. 

 

As for warp flamers...in a unit of 10 that is foot slogging? 1 is usually my maximum, but if you are sticking them in a rhino? 2-3 is a good idea. Its dangerous and very scary, I didn't realize how much so till this past tournament.  And they make the already difficult to shift Rubricae a real BEAR to charge. you get mauled before you even make contact (assuming 8 inch charge) 

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

The issue with Teleport is that if you use it to jump across the board they will be isolated unless you have multiple units, and if you wait for gaps to be created then you will be however many points you spent on them down as you wait.
Not going to lie, the way terminators can now teleport in and charge first turn and just fist tanks/bigmonsters/heros to death almost instantly makes me hesitant aout daemon princes or tanks.
That 20 strong goat herd looks more and more appealing, even if it does have a £50 price tag.

[MoGuy]

So with the Forgeworld mail confirming that the Sons can take FW units, what are your thoughts on the units?

 

Personally, I have a Contemptor (TSons model) and a Hellforged Pred w/ Plasmadestroyer and Lascannons. The first one should be pretty good against hordes. I armed him with a Butchercannon, Deathclaw and Heavy Flamer, so he will melt infantry and can threaten vehicles alike. 

 

I think the Sicaran Battle Tank also looks like the nightmare of any horde army. 

[Archaeinox]

I regret getting rid of my Sicaran. Thinking about picking up a TS contemptor

[Heliomanes]

Ridcully: You could say that about fast units too. If you let them charge ahead without support they are going to get killed. I use scarab occult in conjunction with Magnus, flyers, dreadclaws and other swift units to attack misdeployed units and pounce - but I don't have to. If no opportunity represents itself early on then I can do different things with them. Teleportation just gives you a lot of tactical flexibility - don't just charge them in.

I think most armies need to bubble wrap their characters due to deep striking heavy units - not just chargers either, tau commanders and so on can easily blast expensive units off the table. Thankfully we have some of the best units for this. Brimstone horrors are extremely inexpensive, and the tzaangors are just great.

Achaeinox: Oh, I'm so looking forward to running my Osiron contemptors.

[Balthamal]

TS Leviathan all day long - Drill and Bombard and a re-roll of 1s on Invulns are far too good to pass up

[Prot]

Can't wait to see a Thousand Sons leviathan!

 

I still have my Sicaran and a fire raptor, but I really like the Baledrake.

[Skerr]

I need to get caught up some FW Tyranids before I can think about 1k Sons FW, lol but that contemptor looks sweet!

 

In the meantime I will need to focus my 1000 Sons heavies on what I have, Preds, Vins, Drakes and Brutes.  Though I am looking to see what bits I can use to Tzeentch up my brutes.  I have a couple left over from DV still on the sprue.  I was thinking of Tzangor head, Rubric head or maybe the armored beak exalted sorcerer head.  Otherwise the Helbrute while able to fill some gaps we need filled seems to not really fit the 1k Sons aesthetic.  But that just my opinion.  The Helbrutes and even dreads I have seen in 1k Son schemes just seem to fall short.

[Furryblueelf]

I think my Fire Raptor is going to get more play than it did in 7th.  They truly have a wealth of shots coming out.  Should be quite tactically flexible and can help vs hordes or medium armour easily.

[Prot]

Well due to popular demand I'm trying to make a 2 k list with 20 Rubrics in it. I do clench my teeth at that point cost for 10 dudes 3 flamers, a Soulreaper and a hand flamer but I gotta try it again. (Basically I'm dropping my second squad of Scarabs and second squad of Tzaangors. This allows me the extra rubes and a landraider!)

 

Still using the Helbrute too ;)

I think my Fire Raptor is going to get more play than it did in 7th.  They truly have a wealth of shots coming out.  Should be quite tactically flexible and can help vs hordes or medium armour easily.

I don't have the rules yet so that's good news. I probably won't buy the hard copy since it's pretty brutal conversion and shipping to Canada.