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Excessus Venerable Brother

Excessus

Posted
Posted

I'm sorry to have to ask this, but in looking through the Detachment I'm a bit lost.

 

I'm still trying to keep these guys in mind in my playtesting of Legions but I don't understand the list building. I mean I understand the rules of the detachment, I just don't understand how to go about a cohesive list.

 

I have some things I'm trying to do so I'm wondering with some self imposed rules if you could give me an idea of what I would be looking at in an 1850 list if:

 

- I don't want to use Magnus

- No allies

- The only daemons allowed would be inherent to the Thousand Sons army list... IE: Tzaangors?

 

Can anyone do a very basic rundown of what a decent 1850 with those restrictions would look like?

 

Is there a way to empower the Scarab Termies in such a list without making the army 20 models?

 

Sorry I'm just stuck and not sure if it's plausible to make a decent list with such restrictions.

 

Just at the top of my head, since I don't like the TS decurion...

 

Warband, termie lord with Seers bane, cheap sorcerer (for blessing, force lol), termie deathstar (lord and sorcerer goes here, 2+/3++ terminator jump infantry lol), CSM MSU, Plasma/melta havocs, rhinos all around, bike meltasquad. Paying MoT tax all around.

 

Tzaangor Warherd, Exalted sorcerer, jump artefact (either here or on the warband sorcerer), lots and lots of spawns gear and some cheap upgrades where needed. 

 

Maybe renegade knight, maybe the mauler formation, maybe obliterator formation if points over...

 

 

Don't have the codex with me and I don't know the wrath of magnus point costs for the warherd so it might be too wierd... :sad.:

Minsc Battle-Brother

Minsc

Posted
Posted

I personally would stay away from the Chaos Warband when playing Thousand Sons, since I consider MoT to be nothing but a tax on "mortal" marines.

A War Cabal is pretty cheap if you don't aim for Favoured of Tzeentch. 2 Sorcerers, 5 rubrics and 5 occult termies is 550 pts before upgrades, so you'll have plenty of points left.

 

You can also go with the good 'ol CAD if you don't like the formations;

 

Sorcerers / Exalted Sorcerers / Chaos Lords / Daemon Princes as HQ.

Rubric Marines, Cultists and Tzaangors as Troops.

Occult Termies, regular Termies, Mutilators, Helbrutes and Possessed as Elites.

Spawns and Warp Talons as Fast Attack.

Obliterators, Maulefiends, Forgefiends, Vindicators, Predators and Defilers as Heavy Support.

Raven1 Venerable Brother

Raven1

Posted
Posted

The warband is cheap obsec though. Sure you pay tax for it but multiple rhinos and an abundance of plasmas/meltas that are all obsec...and fast! Bikes, rhinos, spawn.

I would say the TS are not really made for the warband because of thier inherent cost. If you have to have ObjSec I would go to another legion or a TS cad.

 

'Gors are beastman not demons, I'm just nit picking but still

Prot Venerable Brother

Prot

Posted
Posted

Okay, so nix the Warband. Which I'm fine with because to be honest they would do it so inefficiently compared to my other Chaos armies, I'd regret it.

 

I have to figure this out on paper I guess as I'm having trouble finding consensus on how to do this. Considering my restrictions, is a CAD my only realistic option?

Raven1 Venerable Brother

Raven1

Posted
Posted

Given your restrictions I would consider revising your restrictions outside of lack of models. Allied demons are great with the TS because of Warp charges and Magnus is beast mode.

 

I would consider given the restrictions a CAD with HQ with sorcerers one or two your pick Troops choice filled with Tzaangors or cultists and Ahriman's Exiles or War Coven, and fill as you please with everything else.

 

A war cabal or sekhmet enclave is for "FUN" games. That being said the Sekhmet enclave and get you a T8 Magnus.

Prot Venerable Brother

Prot

Posted
Posted
What I'm concerned about is it's starting to feel like Codex Magnus. Some if the groups I run with will say.... have an everything goes day. So for sure Magnus. But if that's the only way it can be competitive, maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree.
Charlo Venerable Brother

Charlo

Posted
Posted

Yeah, the warband is garbage for 1ksons. Also entirely unfluffy.

 

Conclave is fine and just build from there.

 

Get as many psykers In as you can and then cover anti tank /anti 2+ with your vehicles and Dino bots.

 

Renegade knight with Thermal and D makes a good companion.

Raven1 Venerable Brother

Raven1

Posted
Posted

What I'm concerned about is it's starting to feel like Codex Magnus. Some if the groups I run with will say.... have an everything goes day. So for sure Magnus. But if that's the only way it can be competitive, maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree.

I don't think your barking up the wrong tree but I also don't feel you should unnecessarily hamstring your self. I came in during 3rd edition. So special characters sometimes had army point perquisites and always required opponent permission, now with flyers, riptides, stormsurges, wraithknights, Str D in general not just those stupid flamers, and hundreds of free points. I think while staying away from saying a requirement Magnus or splitting horrors certainly have thier place in the new TS theme and army.

Minsc Battle-Brother

Minsc

Posted
Posted

What I'm concerned about is it's starting to feel like Codex Magnus. Some if the groups I run with will say.... have an everything goes day. So for sure Magnus. But if that's the only way it can be competitive, maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree.

 

Thousand Sons are inherently weak from a competetive standpoint.

It's a expensive (pts-wise) low model-count army that's not very resilient (good IV's count for nothing against massed fire) and pretty weak in close combat (generally speaking.)

It's strenghts lie in a decent shooting phase and the strongest psychic phase avaliable to any (non tzeentch-daemon) army. Edit; And having the finest god damn model's GW has ever produced. I'm looking at my newly assembled Occult Termies and Exalted Sorcerers now and ... :wub.:

The psyhic-phase in itself however, is quite random (random powergeneration / perils of the warp / rolling 4+ is pain), which is never good if you aim at winning competetive games.

 

While Magnus is most likely the only way to make TS somewhat competetive, regular TS-lists will most likely do alright in gamingenvironments that aren't super-competetive.

 

If it makes you feel any better, I will rarely field Magnus outside of campaings and/or special occasions, and I will probably roll with a CAD or (non-maxed) War Cabal backed up by Auxilliaries most of the time. This gives me plenty of choices on what to field in my army, as I'm not restricted by the formations. I also consider the Grand Coven formation bonus to be so extremely "meh", that I don't feel compelled to go for it (unlike my World Eaters, who really need theirs.)

 

I'm very tempted to order 40 more Tzaangors though. Their formation is not half-bad, and it counters one of the biggest drawbacks of Thousand Sons; low modelcount.

Speaking about the Warherd; Does anyone have any good ideas on what model's to use as Spawns of Tzeentch? (And don't say the regular Spawn-models!)

Mister Feral Veteran

Mister Feral

Posted
Posted

Splice spare Tzaangor or Tzeentchii bits into the standard Spawn kit?

 

You could replace the arms with assymetrical clusters of Pink / Blue Horror arms.

 

Brimstone Horrors could be used as warpfire coming out their backs if you cut them up and blended them into the Spawn's flesh.

 

On a different topic, where does it in Traitor Legions directly say that the Rubric Marines entry replaces the Thousand Sons one in the Chaos 'dex? There's a generic line about the new data sheets replacing the one equivalent ones, but from a RAW perspective, "Rubric Marines" are a different unit from "Thousands Sons".

 

Pedantic oversight perhaps or have I not read the TL book fully yet? (Only picked it up in the way to work this morning, still in the office...)

Raven1 Venerable Brother

Raven1

Posted
Posted

So food for thought with blessing of Tzeentch you think it might be a good idea to ditch the power armor as you can get a good invuln save from psychic powers and could odly enough protect you from grav?

 

Other than that, that is my exact plan for demon princes.

Prot Venerable Brother

Prot

Posted
Posted

Wings, Power Armour, +3 Mastery Levels, Spell Familiar and Staff of Arcane Compulsion.

 

If you're short on points you can always roll with a "cheap" Prince and ditch the Mastery Levels and the Spell Familiar.

 

I'm trying to pair up a Daemon Prince (to summon? or I dunno... Tzeentch table maybe?) within a Sekhment. Staff of Arcane Compulsion is interesting and anti - CC but still getting a heck of a punch in CC. I was going to put Anathaean Scrolls, but I like that, plus saves 10pts.

 

I doubt I'll be short on points to start! I'll be short on models in this test game. I know the Occult Termies are a given, just not sure about anything else for now.

 

So I'm trying to compliment the Sekhment with something to fullfill the detachment rules. I am thinking of just throwing in Heldrake, and 2 Maulerfiends to start. (I have those models ready to go.) I think a Sorc would help, but with this few models on the table, I'm thinking Maulers might be good protection. I can see getting stuck in is going to be a big problem.

So food for thought with blessing of Tzeentch you think it might be a good idea to ditch the power armor as you can get a good invuln save from psychic powers and could odly enough protect you from grav?

 

Other than that, that is my exact plan for demon princes.

 

Actually , I meant to mention that too. I took armour off because of Grav. :)

Minsc Battle-Brother

Minsc

Posted
Posted

I'd say yay or nay for Armour depends on how grav-heavy your local meta is.

 

Mine isn't very Grav-heavy at all, so I'll always go with Armour, since a 3+/5++(4++) rerolling 1's is so much better than just a 5++(4++) rerolling 1's.

 

If you're in a gravy heavy meta however, I can understand why you'd rather spend those points on something else.

Shinespider Veteran

Shinespider

Posted
Posted
So today on the stream they interviewed Phil Kelly about Wrath of Magnus. 

 


 

For those who just want quick answers, I took the liberty of summarizing the bulk of the interview portion: 

 

Q: Are the Thousand Sons able to replace Rubric Marine losses? If so, how?

A: Yes. With the right rituals and spells, a fallen Rubric Marine can be reconstituted into either a new suit of armor or the old armor after it's repaired. The Black Legion can use a mini-Rubric to make entirely new "ersatz Rubricae," and the Thousand Sons could use such spells as well. 

 

Q: Now that Magnus has given the Wolves a "piece of their own medicine," do you think Magnus might be willing to return to the Imperium's fold?

A: No. The Burning of Prospero pushed him so far into damnation that he's not coming back. He is totally anti-Imperium.

 

Q: Are there any fleshy, non-Psyker Thousand Sons... maybe recruited into the Legion after the Rubric? 

A: Yes and no. Renegade Librarians and Psykers who join the Thousand Sons might wear their colors, and appear to be Thousand Sons Sorcerers from the Imperium's perspective, but the old guard Thousand Sons would always consider them upstarts. (Note: He didn't actually answer this question. The question was specifically about non-psykers, but his answer was explicitly about Librarians and Psykers.) 

 

Q: When writing Wrath of Magnus, were you rooting for the Thousand Sons or the Wolves?

A: Because Magnus is the "Hero" of this book, he was kinda rooting for them, and the book is clearly designed to be his "day in the Sun." He does have a Wolves army, though. 

 

Q: Does Magnus have any further plans for Fenris, or the Space Wolves?

A: Magnus is a mastermind who'se playing several moves ahead. He also likes to think he's above petty notions of vengeance. He's... not (above vengeance,) though, and will continue to work against them. (Note: He can't actually answer this without spoiling future content, so he kinda danced around the question.)

 

Q: How does a giant project like this develop?

A: Miniatures guys tend to come first, story guys weave a story around the minis, then they work with the rules guys to best represent the models and the story in rule form.

Prot Venerable Brother

Prot

Posted
Posted

 

regular TS-lists will most likely do alright in gaming environments that aren't super-competetive.

Truth.. and im having to hold back vs some players.

So when you say this are you playing 'pure' Thousand Sons?

 

I have heard people claim there isn't a lot of compete in the codex without summoning. Would you guys agree with this? How many of you lean on the Tzeentch Daemons for support?

Minsc Battle-Brother

Minsc

Posted
Posted

Anyone had any luck fielding the Tzaangor Warherd? 

 

I only own 20 Tzaangors at the moment, but I'm very tempted to buy another 40 and run this formation with 3x20 Tzaangors, 5 Spawns and a Exalted Sorcerer on Disc. 

Should be fun to play a "low-model-count-army-which-is-bad-at-closecombat", and then plonk out 60 models for only 420* pts and have them, the Spawns, the Exalted and probably 3 Mutilators or 10 Possessed with an attached Chaos Lord with the Grimoire running screaming at the enemy. :tongue.:

 

(*I would never bother with the autopistols, paying 1 ppm for a range 12" S3 shot at BS3 on a unit who can run and charge is a baaad deal in my opinion.)

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