++ Iron Within, Iron Without An Iron Warriors Community ++

[Galron]

After a crushing defeat of my Night Lords today in t2 by an Alpha legion MSU horde/havoc list, I flipping hate that undivided legions are allowed to have marks, I am going back to painting grungy silver again. Came up with a new 2250 list.

Daemon prince with our relic an axe and a warp bolter

Lord with power sword

 

Cultists x10

Cultists x10

Chaos Marines x9

Deredeo with Butcher array and greater Havoc

Havocs x4 missiles

Havocs x4 Heavy bolters

Havocs x4 lascannons

 

Spearhead

Malific lord

Marauders x2 snipers

Marauders x2 snipers

Collussus Bombard x2

Medusa x2

Wyvern x2

 

I can drop the wyverns for more marines I suppose and throw out a another squad.

[sebs_evo7]

Seems like you have a lot of dakka

I don't think you need to drop anything from that list

[sushi2001]

What is the marauder with sniper?

[Galron]

Renegades list. just 5 dudes with 2 sniper rifles for relatively cheap. Useful for pushing out the bubble and if ignored, the occasional sniper shot.

[sushi2001]

Hey guys I need some help figuring oit the Iron Warriors lore during the horus heresy, more specifically the breaking point and the slaughter on Olympia.

Why did the iron warriors become heretics for slaughtering just 5 million? I know it is a lot, but in Warhammer srandards it isn't.

 

So why did the 4th become heretic/ why did the loyalist name them heretics?

[Custodian Athiair]

Hey guys I need some help figuring oit the Iron Warriors lore during the horus heresy, more specifically the breaking point and the slaughter on Olympia.

Why did the iron warriors become heretics for slaughtering just 5 million? I know it is a lot, but in Warhammer srandards it isn't.

 

So why did the 4th become heretic/ why did the loyalist name them heretics?

 

My understanding - although probably more well versed people in this thread - was they mainly turned traitor because they were sick of being forgotten and disregarded. Imperial Fists got all the congratualtions and commendations, while the Iron Warriors were deemed clinical and cold. They felt like a tool rather than a wanted part of the great Crusade.

 

When Dorn was named Pretorian that really hurt, and then Horus was like "bro I see what you do, I admire what you do. Choose me over our useless father and I'll let you rebuild the Imperium"

[Warsmith Aznable]

The Iron Warriors turned traitor because Perturabo told them to. From the first minute Perturabo took control of his Legion he was reforming it to reflect his own flawed psyche, Olympia was just when Perturabo actually paused to feel guilty about his own actions.

 

Perturabo, I think, hates himself, and turns that hatred outward because he also feels superior to all those around him.

 

His Legion embodies the outward symptoms of that, because they are basically children of an abusive, demanding, self-loathing, perfectionist.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

Thought I'd post some photos taken by the Warhammer World event team, during the Throne of Skulls: Dark Imperium. You'll see some of the new models I was painting last week.

Art work by Igor Sid

This is what inspired my conversion for the Exalted Champion.

Then my Round 3 oppent. When explain a bit about my Iron Warriors, that ever trophy is base upon someone I've fought since starting my Iron Warriors back 2001, just to remember great games. After the game, they ended up donate a Space Marine, saying how much they enjoy the game & how much they like the narrative of my Iron Warriors.
​They also had a lot of narrative on there own force. Battle score on who they've fought against, what epic deed they'd done during this or that game. It was a pretty big book. As you can see from the base, they also added names to each Marine Battle Brother as well.

Got the Forge World Siege Dreadnought, who trophy will be base upon the armies I fought during this event. So I'm getting that tomorrow for my birthday, well pick it up from Forge World while I was that Warhammer World, but now family got the model.

[Marqol]

Sounds like a great event Psychopath, I wanted to go but couldn't get the time. 

 

Regarding Perturabo, spoilers incase people want to read the Perturabo novel still.

As far as I know the events on Olympia weren't known by the Imperium, but the shame he felt after it convinced him that the Emperor would never forgive him, he couldn't forgive him.  The Olympian rebellion also opened his eyes though that the idea of the imperium could never work, words his sister said (in my opinion at least) influenced him as well.

They were only named heretics when the Raven Guard, Iron Hands and Salamanders on Istvaan found the nice fortress the 4th had built were suddenly shooting at them.

[sushi2001]

Wow, your army is as old as I am (give or take a few months)

 

Still i think Perturabo wasn't all bad as some sources describe him as a creative guy and not hateful or evil, but closer to the heresy he became more prone to outbursts of anger and rage.

 

Partially beacuse no one (except for the iron circle) appriciated his work or took intrest in his work. It is described that he had a whole collection of architectural designs and other works. In my opinion a hateful person can not make such things. And if the primarch was as bad as you say why would the iron warriors still vow alliegence to him. A good example of this is that very few World Eaters actually vow alliegence to their primarch since he is literrally chaotic evil.

[sushi2001]

I am sad that I yet (Maybe someday I will) am unnable to paint or convert as good as some people on this forum, thus posting any of my scions of the 4th.

[Warsmith Aznable]

In my opinion a hateful person can not make such things. And if the primarch was as bad as you say why would the iron warriors still vow alliegence to him.

Creativity, intelligence, and artistic impulse is by no means reserved for "good guys." Intelligent, creative types may even be more prone than average to unhappiness and antisocial tendencies, according to some studies I've read about.

 

The Legionnaires followed Perturabo because 1. They were genetically and psychologically conditioned to, and 2. The same complex reasons that IRL victims of systematic abuse often identify with and remain loyal to dangerous and unpredictable psychopaths. The very first thing Perturabo did when he got the IVth was to order a decimation. His Legion complied, and that set the tone going forward.

 

Perturabo is a kind of bipolar Primarch. He has admirable qualities, but is an emotional minefield. His genetically engineered super-children both fear him and want his approval. The old "Perturabo saved us" lore can easily be seen as an unhealthy rationalization myth of the kind that many IRL cult members subscribe to.

[sushi2001]

Ok tottaly agreed.

[Goreshed]

Sushi it wasn't just 5 million. The IW slaughtered somewhere in the region of 2/3rds of their home world and enslaved the rest. Given the time frame of it all we can say that it was many more times that number of millions.

 

But as it was said, the shame of the act made perty realize that he and his legion would be censored for that act and Horus forgave him for culling his own world when the Emperor was presumed to not.

[Azekai]

Fantastic looking army IP; I had to wipe the drool out of my beard. If you ever feel inclined to share some of the stories behind your IW's trophies, I'd be happy to read more!

I am sad that I yet (Maybe someday I will) am unnable to paint or convert as good as some people on this forum, thus posting any of my scions of the 4th.

Hey, I know the feeling. Guys like IP and Krautscientist are amazing painters and plastic cutters, and their skills outpace many of us. However, that isn't a reason to be discouraged! The truth is you just have to keep honing your skills, and know that painting and converting isn't about competing with others. Do the best you can, always keep learning and improving... and if you have any questions, most hobbyists are happy as a clam to share their 'trade secrets.'

 

Edited September 5, 2017 by Azekai

[Iron Skull Mask]

The thing with the IW was that while other primarchs sometimes complained and questioned orders from the emperor, Perturabo always did as told. And if he didn't like something, he would just sulk. From there grew great bitterness, anger and frustration. Then Perturabo was touched by Chaos from the start, as he could always see the Maelstrom, wherever he was. Third, Perturabo is often described as illtempered.

His sons have the same flaws (besides that they couldn't see the Maelstrom) and are slavishly loyal to their primarch.

 

I recommend the Perturabo novel. It's really one of the better BL novels. And it has the major reasons for the fall of the IW in it (see spoiler). Another book that has some hints about what's wrong with the IW is Angel Exterminatus.

 

This attitude was also demanded and "taught" by Perturabo as he punished those who questioned orders or adapted them too much to the necessities (like Dantioch). When Olympia happened because Perturabo couldn't cope with the campain against the Hrud going bad and his homeworld rebelling, the Iron Warriors who didn't follow the orders to decimate the population were declared traitors and killed by their comerades for whom the word of the primarch was the gospel. Perturabo only learned about this when he began to regret his orders and tried to stop what was going on (too late). After he had found out, he knew his legion was doomed and believed that he couldn't be forgiven. That's what really condemned him in the end and made him side with Horus.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Iron Skull Mask

[sushi2001]

Ok thanks.

[Marqol]

@Iron Skull Mask Did you pick up on what Dantioch mentioned, early on in the book?

Along the lines of: The campaigns the 4th were sent on looked like a deliberate attempt to break the Legion

Again using spoiler tags as not particularly spoilery but want to give others chance to read it for them selves if they prefer. 

[Iron Skull Mask]

Ah no, I didn't. That quote is cool though, as it gives you ideas to speculate about.

[Goreshed]

That was a huge reason why he was banished from the Legion, because he questioned Perty. Even if it was because he saw where the legion was going it didn't matter in Perty's eyes.

[Khannis]

I don't know if anyone else feels like this, but I've been wanting to get myself a IV Legion army for quite some time, as both the old Storm of Iron and the new Perturabo novel are some of my favorite BL books.

 

However, the release of 8th's Chaos Codex was a great disappointment. Not that we don't have a fluffy trait or relic, but simply that I cannot envision how to field a fluffy, siege-oriented list as it was meant to be. We simply lack the heavy artillery, or a way to represent dug-in troops in prepared positions, booby traps and creeping barrages, all things the IW supposedly excel at. Furthermore, it seems to me that our tactics now favor the spam of cultists and cult troops from other legions, which is IMHO definetely not what we should be doing.

 

Thoughts?

[Goreshed]

It is no harder or easier than any other edition of 40k to play an IW, just as it is the same with any of the other legions. Do some aspects get easier? Sure. But with each edition something has to change to make it enthralling to continue that upward momentum to get more customers.

 

But compared to other editions we have an easier time integrating other aspects into our army than ever before. Want to field 3 basilisks with an HQ from the renegade side to give you the range with your IW force? Sure go right ahead, you can do that. Or if one were to try and make it a more forlorn hope situation we can field an army of terminators if we really want to. Or if you want to spam cultists with a few squads of marines to give them a backbone you can do that too.

 

I love B&C, I love our creativity, our passion and our drive but at the same time I truly hate how many take the easy route of 'so whats everyone doing' and then copies it exactly. Does it happen all the time? No, but far to many people say 'well so and so said...' when it should be 'hey I thought of this and tried it out and it worked!'. Or hell, 'tried this, didn't work but it was fluffy as all hell, back to the drawing board!'. 

 

4-7th editions were ruled by the power gamers, now we have 3 ways to play. Many of us, myself included (hey not perfect and I've played the game long enough to develop knee jerk reactions and bad habits), need to think outside of the box with this edition and see that there are many more ways to play than ever before. No longer is the game just about what units you bring to the table but instead how you utilize them on the battlefield. 

 

Have I tried the other cult units? Sure. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. But Chaos, from the start was never a siege army. It was a medium to short ranged assault army, which means the table top play is contradictory to how our fluff is. But unlike before, and as I stated above, you can compensate that now with taking renegade armour pieces of artillery to give us the long range punch. There are ways around it and honestly if you really want the storm of iron feel then you need to honestly play a game of a couple hundred points a side on a table set up for that scenario. Otherwise we have to make due with the size and scope that we have. 

 

I used Fate of Konor to try a number of different lists and with all of them I stuck to fluffy but I played on all aspects of the siege, from using cultists as the main block of troops to using terminators to get behind peoples lines and make life miserable for them. You have to think outside the box for this edition and chaos is the best army out there to do so with given the new ways we can now integrate units that we were never able to do before.

[Khannis]

It is no harder or easier than any other edition of 40k to play an IW, just as it is the same with any of the other legions. Do some aspects get easier? Sure. But with each edition something has to change to make it enthralling to continue that upward momentum to get more customers.

 

But compared to other editions we have an easier time integrating other aspects into our army than ever before. Want to field 3 basilisks with an HQ from the renegade side to give you the range with your IW force? Sure go right ahead, you can do that. Or if one were to try and make it a more forlorn hope situation we can field an army of terminators if we really want to. Or if you want to spam cultists with a few squads of marines to give them a backbone you can do that too.

 

I love B&C, I love our creativity, our passion and our drive but at the same time I truly hate how many take the easy route of 'so whats everyone doing' and then copies it exactly. Does it happen all the time? No, but far to many people say 'well so and so said...' when it should be 'hey I thought of this and tried it out and it worked!'. Or hell, 'tried this, didn't work but it was fluffy as all hell, back to the drawing board!'.

 

4-7th editions were ruled by the power gamers, now we have 3 ways to play. Many of us, myself included (hey not perfect and I've played the game long enough to develop knee jerk reactions and bad habits), need to think outside of the box with this edition and see that there are many more ways to play than ever before. No longer is the game just about what units you bring to the table but instead how you utilize them on the battlefield.

 

Have I tried the other cult units? Sure. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. But Chaos, from the start was never a siege army. It was a medium to short ranged assault army, which means the table top play is contradictory to how our fluff is. But unlike before, and as I stated above, you can compensate that now with taking renegade armour pieces of artillery to give us the long range punch. There are ways around it and honestly if you really want the storm of iron feel then you need to honestly play a game of a couple hundred points a side on a table set up for that scenario. Otherwise we have to make due with the size and scope that we have.

 

I used Fate of Konor to try a number of different lists and with all of them I stuck to fluffy but I played on all aspects of the siege, from using cultists as the main block of troops to using terminators to get behind peoples lines and make life miserable for them. You have to think outside the box for this edition and chaos is the best army out there to do so with given the new ways we can now integrate units that we were never able to do before.

I get where you're coming from. Despite not having played until 6th edition, I followed the game for quite a while before that, and my intention was not to say that 8th edition was particularly awful for the representation of Iron Warriors. Rather, it was to say that 8th edition seems an edition quite focused on sub-factions, and I felt disappointed because it seems the IV Legion was excluded from that. It's not really that it got less than others - other than DG and TS - but that most if not all other legions can already effectively implement their signature combat style, fluff-wise. Night Lords got their descending raptors, World Eaters their berserker onslaught, Word Bearers their demagogue-led cultist hordes, etc.

 

I get that we can accomodate the rules now more in the past, and thus circumvent some of the limitations to try and approach a fluffier list, and that chaos marines are essentially made for medium range assault. My problem isn't with that exactly, is that Iron Warriors seem to have drawn the short stick, stuck with building a list that doesn't represent them well. Of course we can represent certain aspects; But 40k lists have been traditionally a combined "microcosm" of the real scale - see the (old) Death Korps Siege List, for a "close-to-home" example - rather than specific actions (such as the elite forlorn hope you mentioned) during a larger battle that is essentially being fought in another manner entirely.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Khannis

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

Just a quick question

 

So I've gotten the Leviathan Siege Dreadnought while I was that Warhammer World during the weekend.  I've went with the Leviathan Storm Cannon as it just look cool, but what the name for this in the Index Chaos, as we seen to have few different names for wargear or what are people count this as?

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Leviathan-Pattern-Siege-Dreadnought-Storm-Cannon

 

Hopeful start building it this Sunday.

[Commander Dawnstar]

The equivalent in the Index would be the Butcher Cannon Array. It's a nasty piece of kit.