[HH1.0] Mechanicum Tactica

[Withershadow]

You get the same results with 3 irradiation cleansers. Even 3 volkite culverns produce very nice results, but that's the one weapon you usually do want to increase to at least 5 strong.

[em_en_oh_pee]

I skipped over him earlier, had a bit of rules overload ADD. 

 

Axiarch (HQ)

 

He runs a reasonable statline of 4 5 4 4 3 4 3 9 (3+)

 

Wargear:

• Refractor Field, Arc Maul, Radium Pistol, Kyropatris field generator
• Titanshard Armour (grants It Will Not Die and I guess it did something to his statline that's already included). It's literally made out of old Titans.
• Can exchange Radium Pistol for Arc pistol, Volkite Serpenta, Photon Gauntlet, or Archaeotech pistol
• Can exchange Arc Maul for Power Weapon, Corposant Stave, or Power Fist
• Can ditch both for Arc lance & Mag-inverter shield
• Option to master-craft a thing, whoopee
• Can buy Omnispex, Shattersphere grenades & Augury scanner

Special Rules:

• Hazard Protocols, Titan Guard, FnP(6+), Stubborn, Precision Shots
• Binaric Stratagems: all units in the Detachment with Hazard Protocols can gain one of the following for the game (and only one, regardless of how many Axiarchs you take) -> FnP boosted to 5+, gain Move Through Cover, +1 on Vehicle Damage Table results, or Preferred Enemy (Infantry)

He'll run you a little more than a basic Legion Centurion.

 

Too bad he isn't an IC. :(

[Kilofix]

I skipped over him earlier, had a bit of rules overload ADD. 

 

Axiarch (HQ)

 

He runs a reasonable statline of 4 5 4 4 3 4 3 9 (3+)

 

Wargear:

 

• Refractor Field, Arc Maul, Radium Pistol, Kyropatris field generator
• Titanshard Armour (grants It Will Not Die and I guess it did something to his statline that's already included). It's literally made out of old Titans.
• Can exchange Radium Pistol for Arc pistol, Volkite Serpenta, Photon Gauntlet, or Archaeotech pistol
• Can exchange Arc Maul for Power Weapon, Corposant Stave, or Power Fist
• Can ditch both for Arc lance & Mag-inverter shield
• Option to master-craft a thing, whoopee
• Can buy Omnispex, Shattersphere grenades & Augury scanner

Special Rules:

• Hazard Protocols, Titan Guard, FnP(6+), Stubborn, Precision Shots
• Binaric Stratagems: all units in the Detachment with Hazard Protocols can gain one of the following for the game (and only one, regardless of how many Axiarchs you take) -> FnP boosted to 5+, gain Move Through Cover, +1 on Vehicle Damage Table results, or Preferred Enemy (Infantry)

He'll run you a little more than a basic Legion Centurion.

I'm assuming he's a 30k only?

 

Also assuming they'll be updating the 40k Secutarii experimental rules to align with Inferno?

[1ncarnadine]

 

I'm assuming he's a 30k only?

 

Also assuming they'll be updating the 40k Secutarii experimental rules to align with Inferno?

 

 

Yeah, currently just 30k rules for that guy. I have no idea on 40k! I imagine there might be an update at Warhammer Fest at the earliest, if it's going to be in Fires of Cyraxus?

[Mango Polo]

Wonderful, FW...

 

1. The Axiarch is a Character, not an IC.

2. Arc Rifles are 12" instead of 24" in what very much looks like a copy/paste failure.

[Tiger9gamer]

It's not like we would have to wait long for an FAQ, right?

 

anyways, even with the lower range and stuff, I am quite excited. this may be the full Mechanicus list I was hoping and praying for after all, and it may quickly outpace my 40k army of skitarii all things considered. 

[LtDan]

Ok guys are the exploritors worth it?. I've got one as my transport for my reductor archmagos and some myrmidons, but thinking would they be better off in a triaros and save the heavy choice for artillery or venators?. Thanks

[Withershadow]

So him not being an independent character, I guess he cannot join any units and has to run on his own?  This can't be intentional, because they gave him a kyropatris field generator that only works if there are at least 5 models in the unit.

 

If they do make him an independent character, he will be a nice perk for Skitarii/Secutarii lists, since he can grant the Secutarii preferred enemy (infantry), and then join a Skitarii unit to give them the same.  The improved FNP is not as good since you really need full-sized 20-man squads to ensure you have that -1S to enemy shooting.

 

Beyond that, the Titan Guard have taken a big blow since the experimental rules. The Hoplites losing Doctrinas seriously impacts their ability in melee. Yeah they got a slew of haywire shots, but they cost as much as a Vanguard squad with 3 arc rifles. Peltasts also were brought down from their experimental OP levels by going up 3 points per model.  Still a very solid unit if you have an Axiarch for Preferred Enemy, and they can actually use the hazard protocols quite well being a shooty unit (and you can use the protocols every turn, so they can effectively always be BS5 with BS2 snap fire).

 

I went from wanting 20 of each, to just being content with a unit of Peltasts. And that's if they fix the Axiarch.

[N1SB]

Hi guys, just responding to the Min-Sized Units i.e. are 3 Myrmidons or Thallaxes per squad enough, etc.

 

I asked the same question when I started out, like should I have squads of 3 or 6 or whatever sized Thallaxes.

 

For those looking at this thread, 3 actually happens to work out fine, even as they're force-depleted over a course of the battle.  3 is enough, 2 is still effective, even 1 is still effective in the endgame.  I was afraid when going into 30k the standard baseline were squads of 20 Marines per squad (in my local meta), but it turns out those people were either biased or ignorant (again, just talking about my local meta at the time).

 

I've recently split my Thallaxes squad sizes from 6 to 3.  Much more efficient than before, due to agility and flexibility.  I think same with Myrmidons, they do so much damage each, they don't need larger squads as mentioned in the last page.

 

 

Ok guys are the exploritors worth it?. I've got one as my transport for my reductor archmagos and some myrmidons, but thinking would they be better off in a triaros and save the heavy choice for artillery or venators?. Thanks

 

 

To be totally honest, I think you're better off with a Triaros + Venators or Artillery, instead of an Explorator.  Here's why I think that, both from the user's perspective (i.e. ours), and the opponent's perspective.

 

From the user's perpsective, the Venators and Artillery, as the best value long-range anti-anything, take priority.  The Explorator is a nice-to-have toy.  So probably get your Venators 1st, then Ordo Reductor artillery, then you're taking Myrmidons I know...then maybe the Explorator if you got that spare 4th Heavy Support slot, is probably the best priortising IMHO.

 

From the opponent's perspective, you got this awesome Explorator that you probably put some cool guns on, maybe more Irrad Engines and a Grav Cannon?  AND you put your Myrmidons also with those weapons in there?  That's the Obvious Choice of what they want to kill right away.  You spread your eggs out a bit, like you got that 1 Triaros with the Myrmidons, then Venators, then Artillery...he has all those choices and they all suck because the other things will then kill him.

 

(Another example of how I would ideally do this, even if I were to take both a Triaros and an Explorator.  Myrmidons and maybe HQ in my Triaros.  Then an Explorator armed for bear with a Techpriest Auxilla to just repair it from within.  Now both are scary targets...but it's a tough choice which to focus fire on.)

 

Disclaimer - I do put my Myrmidons in my Explorator, which is a high risk option but is hilarious, and I drive into ruins for cover.  I am getting some other stuff to draw attention away from it, though, but it's so risky I don't recommend it to others.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I find Thallax extremely underwhelming. And given that everyone is gonna start gearing up to deal with Custodes (who share a lot of the same profile ie T5 multi-wound), their value is probably going to decrease further. Also small point but going MSU with Thallax actually makes it more expensive, because of their hidden squad tax (they should be 120 but they're 135 base). If lightning guns were changed to Assault 2 or Haywire they'd see a lot more play, as is they're resoundingly medicore. I say this as someone who owns 18 of them, loves their model and their lore. It's the rules that let them down. 

 

Regarding Myrmidons, yeah you rarely need more than 3 or 4 per  squad, and splitting them up lets you spread your firepower and dilute enemy shooting. Triaros are a perfectly good transport for them, its very cheap for its durability and flexibility (can kill infantry fine, can Ram tanks). 

 

Explorator is fine, I'd say its better than irad-engine Myrmidons because its mobile and can probably survive to get into range with them as sponsons. As you say though, its cost and competition with squadrons of other things in Heavy (probably Mechanicum's most contested Force Org slot after Fast Attack) does make it a bit less attractive. On the plus side, AV14 on all sides with Ceramite and Flare Shield puts it into Spartan levels of durable (provided you shell out for it, but Spartans have gone up in price too). If you want a sweet ride for your Destructors or Arch-Reductor/Taghmata Arch-Magos, its perfectly fine though. 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

FYI the new Castellax-Achea is interesting. I dunno if they are auto-include as Allies, but they are pretty good. 

 

So basically you get IWND, Fearless (no Cortex so you can't buff them with Cybertheurgy) and re-rolls to wound on the claw bolters and mauler (due to their anti-psychneuein ammo) for 10pts more than a darkfire Castellax. Instead of Atomantic Shielding they get refractor field (so slightly more survivable in melee).

Their psi-matrix lets 1k Sons psykers channel Witchfire and Maledictions through them if within 12" of each other (the robot becomes the point of origin basically). If they end up not within 24" of a 1k Son psyker, they can't charge/run/sweeping advance, but still fight normally otherwise. If a psyker Perils within 12" of them, they take D6 wounds with no save and if they die, they auto-Reactor blast. For same price as Enhanced Targeters, you can swap the mauler with re-rolls to wound for a plasma cannon with Soul Blaze. 

 

Personally I like them as Thanatar replacements. They're almost as durable and you get twice as many wounds for similar investment (two aetherfire cannon Achea are only 50pts more than a Thanatar). The downside is you can't buff them with Cybertheurgy, as FW cleverly avoided that (makes sense from a lore perspective, just annoying). Also they can't take any other upgrades. No Enhanced Targeters is a bit of an annoyance, no frags either. They are I4 natively so same as Castellax in a Legio Cybernetica detachment. 

 

I'm gonna pick up some just because the models look amazing, but I'll need to do further playtesting before I decide to take them as Allies. Interestingly they're freely available as 1k Son Heavy choices, no need for cortex controllers (I think Iron Circle for IW are the same). 

[chaos45]

ya felt the skitarii add based on the rules were rushed or not well thought out at the very least.  Was really looking forward to adding them to my 30k mechanicum and now its more like golly gee FW. 

 

The point increase on the Peltasts means their unique weapon IMO is worthless unless you want the cover bonus and then you only ever want 5 in the squad period.  So went from a I want to buy 20 of them to 10 at most as they suck now and the radium carbines are better IMO.

 

The hoplites are still decent though so will prolly get 20-30 of them....also the character is neat and a good add but ya needs IC rule...otherwise again pointless as the other side will just mow him down all on his own. 

[Withershadow]

It's worth noting Darius is the only one I've ever heard express such disdain towards Thallax, they are not our best unit but still among the best compulsory troop options available in the game

[Kilofix]

Hi guys, just responding to the Min-Sized Units i.e. are 3 Myrmidons or Thallaxes per squad enough, etc.

 

I asked the same question when I started out, like should I have squads of 3 or 6 or whatever sized Thallaxes.

 

For those looking at this thread, 3 actually happens to work out fine, even as they're force-depleted over a course of the battle.  3 is enough, 2 is still effective, even 1 is still effective in the endgame.  I was afraid when going into 30k the standard baseline were squads of 20 Marines per squad (in my local meta), but it turns out those people were either biased or ignorant (again, just talking about my local meta at the time).

 

I've recently split my Thallaxes squad sizes from 6 to 3.  Much more efficient than before, due to agility and flexibility.  I think same with Myrmidons, they do so much damage each, they don't need larger squads as mentioned in the last page.

 

 

 

Ok guys are the exploritors worth it?. I've got one as my transport for my reductor archmagos and some myrmidons, but thinking would they be better off in a triaros and save the heavy choice for artillery or venators?. Thanks

 

 

 

To be totally honest, I think you're better off with a Triaros + Venators or Artillery, instead of an Explorator.  Here's why I think that, both from the user's perspective (i.e. ours), and the opponent's perspective.

 

From the user's perpsective, the Venators and Artillery, as the best value long-range anti-anything, take priority.  The Explorator is a nice-to-have toy.  So probably get your Venators 1st, then Ordo Reductor artillery, then you're taking Myrmidons I know...then maybe the Explorator if you got that spare 4th Heavy Support slot, is probably the best priortising IMHO.

 

From the opponent's perspective, you got this awesome Explorator that you probably put some cool guns on, maybe more Irrad Engines and a Grav Cannon?  AND you put your Myrmidons also with those weapons in there?  That's the Obvious Choice of what they want to kill right away.  You spread your eggs out a bit, like you got that 1 Triaros with the Myrmidons, then Venators, then Artillery...he has all those choices and they all suck because the other things will then kill him.

 

(Another example of how I would ideally do this, even if I were to take both a Triaros and an Explorator.  Myrmidons and maybe HQ in my Triaros.  Then an Explorator armed for bear with a Techpriest Auxilla to just repair it from within.  Now both are scary targets...but it's a tough choice which to focus fire on.)

 

Disclaimer - I do put my Myrmidons in my Explorator, which is a high risk option but is hilarious, and I drive into ruins for cover.  I am getting some other stuff to draw attention away from it, though, but it's so risky I don't recommend it to others.

Explorator can be a Dedicated Transport of Decima, in case you need the 4th Heavy Slot

[LtDan]

 

Hi guys, just responding to the Min-Sized Units i.e. are 3 Myrmidons or Thallaxes per squad enough, etc.

 

I asked the same question when I started out, like should I have squads of 3 or 6 or whatever sized Thallaxes.

 

For those looking at this thread, 3 actually happens to work out fine, even as they're force-depleted over a course of the battle. 3 is enough, 2 is still effective, even 1 is still effective in the endgame. I was afraid when going into 30k the standard baseline were squads of 20 Marines per squad (in my local meta), but it turns out those people were either biased or ignorant (again, just talking about my local meta at the time).

 

I've recently split my Thallaxes squad sizes from 6 to 3. Much more efficient than before, due to agility and flexibility. I think same with Myrmidons, they do so much damage each, they don't need larger squads as mentioned in the last page.

 

 

 

Ok guys are the exploritors worth it?. I've got one as my transport for my reductor archmagos and some myrmidons, but thinking would they be better off in a triaros and save the heavy choice for artillery or venators?. Thanks

 

 

To be totally honest, I think you're better off with a Triaros + Venators or Artillery, instead of an Explorator. Here's why I think that, both from the user's perspective (i.e. ours), and the opponent's perspective.

 

From the user's perpsective, the Venators and Artillery, as the best value long-range anti-anything, take priority. The Explorator is a nice-to-have toy. So probably get your Venators 1st, then Ordo Reductor artillery, then you're taking Myrmidons I know...then maybe the Explorator if you got that spare 4th Heavy Support slot, is probably the best priortising IMHO.

 

From the opponent's perspective, you got this awesome Explorator that you probably put some cool guns on, maybe more Irrad Engines and a Grav Cannon? AND you put your Myrmidons also with those weapons in there? That's the Obvious Choice of what they want to kill right away. You spread your eggs out a bit, like you got that 1 Triaros with the Myrmidons, then Venators, then Artillery...he has all those choices and they all suck because the other things will then kill him.

 

(Another example of how I would ideally do this, even if I were to take both a Triaros and an Explorator. Myrmidons and maybe HQ in my Triaros. Then an Explorator armed for bear with a Techpriest Auxilla to just repair it from within. Now both are scary targets...but it's a tough choice which to focus fire on.)

 

Disclaimer - I do put my Myrmidons in my Explorator, which is a high risk option but is hilarious, and I drive into ruins for cover. I am getting some other stuff to draw attention away from it, though, but it's so risky I don't recommend it to others.

Explorator can be a Dedicated Transport of Decima, in case you need the 4th Heavy Slot

[LtDan]

Oops that didn't work. I love the disclaimer at the end. I would do this but actually go against your own advise lol.

I plan on thallax as all my troops as got 18 so far.

I've got

9 secutors (plan was 4grav 4 plasma 1 spare)

9 destructors'(plan 4 irad 4 grav 1 spare)

3 triaros

1 exploritor

And a couple magos to build. One Ordinator and one arch magos.

 

I'm set on using 2 heavies just for the myrmidons as there cool it's just how to use the other 2 slots. The exploritor is cool and do love the crashing through ruins idea but is alot of points in a unit if throw the myrms and magos in.

[Tiger9gamer]

not knowing the full rules and points right this moment is slowly killing me right now. I really wanna build my new skitarii list for 30k, and I am having a hard time trying to think of a way to fit all this into my current 30k army. I'm excited but I need. More. Hard. DATA.

 

does anyone know if the onagers are in 30k too?

Edited February 7, 2017 by Tiger9gamer

[Withershadow]

double post

Edited February 7, 2017 by Withershadow

[Withershadow]

ya felt the skitarii add based on the rules were rushed or not well thought out at the very least.  Was really looking forward to adding them to my 30k mechanicum and now its more like FW. 

 

The point increase on the Peltasts means their unique weapon IMO is worthless unless you want the cover bonus and then you only ever want 5 in the squad period.  So went from a I want to buy 20 of them to 10 at most as they suck now and the radium carbines are better IMO.

 

The hoplites are still decent though so will prolly get 20-30 of them....also the character is neat and a good add but ya needs IC rule...otherwise again pointless as the other side will just mow him down all on his own. 

I don't know if I agree with this assessment. Yes, a 30 point increase for the unit was harsh on the Peltasts, but before they were ludicrously good and spammable. Now they are probably about right, and in my opinion significantly better than Hoplites.  They will always be BS5 now effectively, with 30" S4 AP3 rending rounds, and preferred enemy (infantry) from the Axiarch.  Using the lower strength shredding rounds, that's 39 hits on average from a 10-man unit! Yes, it's only S2, but with shred that's still a 33% chance to wound T4-5 models. T3 stuff like militia will evaporate at a rate to make volkite squads jealous.  The kinetic rounds you can expect to pretty much hit with all 10, with a ~58.5% chance to wound T4 (and a third of those wounds will be rending AP2 ones). Blind Barrage can be a cute little buff BS2 on overwatch, as well.

 

They are basically super Seekers while being significantly cheaper.  Are you missing perhaps that their minimum unit size is a full 10, rather than the 5 per squad you seem to suggest?

 

It's the hoplites with their WS3 and A1 that never impressed me in the first place, and impress me even less now that they don't have Doctrinas for improved WS.

 

not knowing the full rules and points right this moment is slowly killing me right now. I really wanna build my new skitarii list for 30k, and I am having a hard time trying to think of a way to fit all this into my current 30k army. I'm excited but I need. More. Hard. DATA.

 

does anyone know if the onagers are in 30k too?

We have zero Skitarii rules for 30K so far. We only got rules for the Titanguard.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Withershadow

[Tiger9gamer]

 

not knowing the full rules and points right this moment is slowly killing me right now. I really wanna build my new skitarii list for 30k, and I am having a hard time trying to think of a way to fit all this into my current 30k army. I'm excited but I need. More. Hard. DATA.

 

does anyone know if the onagers are in 30k too?

We have zero Skitarii rules for 30K so far. We only got rules for the Titanguard.

 

That is what I ment. will the titan guard have onagers too or am I hoping for too much?

[Caillum]

not knowing the full rules and points right this moment is slowly killing me right now. I really wanna build my new skitarii list for 30k, and I am having a hard time trying to think of a way to fit all this into my current 30k army. I'm excited but I need. More. Hard. DATA.

 

does anyone know if the onagers are in 30k too?

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/327217-legio-custodes-tactica-in-their-fists-they-carry-death/page-8

 

First post in this page has the Titan Guard rules. Very limited at this stage, as mentioned.

[Brofist]

Speaking of the Castellax-Achea, anybody know what the 'power claws' are? No entry in the book for those.

[Withershadow]

They are power fists.

[Brofist]

Where are their rules from?

[Brofist]

Found my own answer to this. It's from the Arlatax- S+2, AP2, and shred. This makes the TKsons castellax better than the stock ones by a margin.