[HH1.0] Thousand Sons tactica

[Ahzek451]

Been reading the last few pages, occasionally seeing worries about possibly being the most powerful legion(especially with Magnus), undercosted units, etc. but has anyone had any experience against sisters? Granted it's still new, but the right combo of allies and custodes could see sisters be not so crunchy and more of a pain than anticipated. Especially if legions start taking them as allies and take those nasty sister hq's.

 

its early still, but it could be a shift that balances it all out.

[Jarkaira]

Been reading the last few pages, occasionally seeing worries about possibly being the most powerful legion(especially with Magnus), undercosted units, etc. but has anyone had any experience against sisters? Granted it's still new, but the right combo of allies and custodes could see sisters be not so crunchy and more of a pain than anticipated. Especially if legions start taking them as allies and take those nasty sister hq's.

its early still, but it could be a shift that balances it all out.

I don't think that it is a bright idea of game balance to force players to take allies which are very situational (SoS) and also allies which are even more undercosted(Custodes) to achieve a balance when adding undercosted faction (1ksons).

[Runefyre]

 

Been reading the last few pages, occasionally seeing worries about possibly being the most powerful legion(especially with Magnus), undercosted units, etc. but has anyone had any experience against sisters? Granted it's still new, but the right combo of allies and custodes could see sisters be not so crunchy and more of a pain than anticipated. Especially if legions start taking them as allies and take those nasty sister hq's.

its early still, but it could be a shift that balances it all out.

I don't think that it is a bright idea of game balance to force players to take allies which are very situational (SoS) and also allies which are even more undercosted(Custodes) to achieve a balance when adding undercosted faction (1ksons).

 

Especially for traitor faction legions who can't even take SoS even if they wanted to. Personally I think that Legion Librarians and Casters of Runes could use a minor boost so as to make them not completely useless.

 

Anyway, what do you guys think is the best way to utilize Ammitara? Just stock with nuncio vox seems like the only way to run them effeciently. I feel like they really need implacable advance to be truly useful though.

[Ahzek451]

 

Been reading the last few pages, occasionally seeing worries about possibly being the most powerful legion(especially with Magnus), undercosted units, etc. but has anyone had any experience against sisters? Granted it's still new, but the right combo of allies and custodes could see sisters be not so crunchy and more of a pain than anticipated. Especially if legions start taking them as allies and take those nasty sister hq's.

its early still, but it could be a shift that balances it all out.

I don't think that it is a bright idea of game balance to force players to take allies which are very situational (SoS) and also allies which are even more undercosted(Custodes) to achieve a balance when adding undercosted faction (1ksons).

Well no one is actually forced to, and it would be a terrible way to balance things but a move like that from gw/fw could hardly be a surprise. I would just expect to see the occasional list up its anti-psyker ability and running into a full custode/sister list could be something we see and potentially problematic. When Magnus in 40k showed up, events like the lvo saw an increase in culuxes assassins. It would probably be a good idea for 30k son players to see what the sisters can dish out and find good counters. Especially if loyalist are worried about mega magnus nova's. Edited March 4, 2017 by Ahzek451

[Nusquam]

I tried out TS at 1k in two games of Zone Mortalis. I took Sekhmet, two asphyx sniper vets with ML1, and a rotor asphyx squad each time. The first time I got endurance on my delegatus, then I rolled on bio and got iron arm on the sekhmet. They held down the center 3 point objective and won it. That game the rotors got murdered by tyrants. The second game the rotors did much better and held down a hallway. I got enfeeble on the sekhmet and haemorhage on the delegatus. Both games I did choose molten beam and it was great. The vets did pretty well each time too. Sekhmet are quality. Outside zone I'd just stick with molten beam and levitate.

 

As for SoS, they are the literal rock to the TS scissors. They all come with psyk-out grenades and can constantly force army-wide pinning tests. Even their transport has psyk-out missiles. Yes, you have to ally them if you aren't taking an army of them. But they are the hard counter to TS mechanics. Anyone can ally them, even if you don't take a RoW you are still bringing the literal kryptonite to face the TS. A more than fair trade. Just like how you take AT to fight tanks you take the premiere anti-psykers to fight psykers. Plus the SoS units themselves are just good to begin with.

[Robzilla]

I tried out TS at 1k in two games of Zone Mortalis. I took Sekhmet, two asphyx sniper vets with ML1, and a rotor asphyx squad each time. The first time I got endurance on my delegatus, then I rolled on bio and got iron arm on the sekhmet. They held down the center 3 point objective and won it. That game the rotors got murdered by tyrants. The second game the rotors did much better and held down a hallway. I got enfeeble on the sekhmet and haemorhage on the delegatus. Both games I did choose molten beam and it was great. The vets did pretty well each time too. Sekhmet are quality. Outside zone I'd just stick with molten beam and levitate.

 

As for SoS, they are the literal rock to the TS scissors. They all come with psyk-out grenades and can constantly force army-wide pinning tests. Even their transport has psyk-out missiles. Yes, you have to ally them if you aren't taking an army of them. But they are the hard counter to TS mechanics. Anyone can ally them, even if you don't take a RoW you are still bringing the literal kryptonite to face the TS. A more than fair trade. Just like how you take AT to fight tanks you take the premiere anti-psykers to fight psykers. Plus the SoS units themselves are just good to begin with.

How are you rolling biomancy on the sekhmet?

 

Are you interpreting it as the unit "may chose" from these two disciplines, as an optional choice, and the legion rules as an alternative? (generate as normal from BRB)

 

I was about to object until I went back and reread it, and the wording between the various units and legion rules about psychic powers... And I can kind of see your point actually.

 

I mean, if that's the legit ruling, the unit is bonkers! Pants-on-head bonkers.

[pompeyladbfp]

im playing it as you can choose from those two decks, and thats it. I think if a unit gets it own rules and then allows you chosoe rather than generate pychic powers you cant choose to ignore that and just roll for normal ones.

 

thoughts?

 

(also has anyone seen adepticons FAQs, someone must have word bearers lol)

[Mango Polo]

We've gone in circles about this since day 1. It's best to assume that every local area will interpret the Sekhmet power generation differently. All the arguments are on the table until FW steps in, so play as you believe (or are allowed :P).

[Nusquam]

We were just trying things out. We like to do things as close to RAW as possible when first trying things. May vs must, so you're not limited and choose vs generate. If, and I stress the word 'if', FW ever does an FAQ for a black book we'll see what changes it may bring. Until then we were testing out strict RAW, no interpretation, no adding words that aren't there etc.

 

Sekhmet are beastly, but one of my friends is starting a SoS allied force and is going to have stake crossbows and psyk-out everything out the wazoo, especially those 48" psyk-out missiles on their crazy good transport(Seriously, have you seen that thing?). So I'll be taking anywhere between 5 and 10 perils a turn. So I don't feel bad in the least.

 

Speaking of SoS, asphyx rotor squads would be pretty great at laying down the wounds. First you have to crack their transport. It's not the toughest nut, but it's a cheap DT and therefore spammable and loaded for bear. With two twinlinked missile launchers with frag, krak, and psyk-out missiles it can reach out and perils at 48". As well as having a 24" heavy 4 autocannon. The more I read the SoS army list the more I see that they are just a plain quality army by themselves that also without effort happens to be absolutely brutal against psykers. They are definitely not pigeon-holed to be anti-psyker. Facing them requires multiple sources of ranged mid AV AT and ablative transports to protect against psyk-out missiles. With the Infiltrate cadre ability their transports can infiltrate up close, because theyre also assault transports, and unload for a turn 2 charge. Or just pop out with 5 stake crossbows, which are S5 and a free upgrade for the HQ unit, and rack up the perils.

[pompeyladbfp]

i agree, a complete sisters army is a horror to face with any army. but damn those transports are good, however cost over points will limit them somewhat i feel

[Robzilla]

Still, sanctions or biomancy sekhmet could be pretty bananas.

I know sanctic is pretty risky, but the benefits... Fast redeploy for objective grabbing, strength 7 force axes (or strength 10 power fists), 2+ inv saves.

 

Some of the other powers are a bit more lacklustre or situational, but still.

 

Thinking about it, probably just better to take it On a praetor, as all the buffs affect the whole unit, and you have some perils protection with characters.

 

Biomancy on the other hand...

Edited March 5, 2017 by Robzilla

[Withershadow]

I thought the Prosperine Lore was not contradictory with their goose ability, but then the Blade Cabal would not have an asterisk saying they can take anything as it would be redundant, so I treat the asterisk rules as binding since otherwise the Sekhmet would be the only exception.

 

So Sekhmet with full access = omg golly gee broken

Sekhmet with choosing ability for those two disciplines = very solid

Sekhmet with randomized TK/Pyro = I rather take cheaper Legion terminators with ML1.

 

Your mileage may vary.

[Nusquam]

Trying to infer between other rules and draw conclusions is just that. You can try to play detective, which I do try to do within my group, but at the end of the day it's RAW to form the basis of a neutral, even playing field in public discussion. Everyone is free to discuss with their groups how they want to play, but that's personal choice and is subjective. But when testing out new things my group tries RAW first. That means no personal interpretations, no cross-examining, just what the exact rules as written are. Then should we feel any house-ruling enhances our fun we discuss them. But if a rule is functionally broken because FW uses the wrong word, term, etc(e:furious assault) we obviously rule it to function.

 

I'm waiting for they day when 5 stake crossbows and two twinlinked psykout missile launchers from an infiltrated, scouted SoS silence transport full of excruciatas force about 10 perils and army-wide pinning tests on me. 225 points to pin my whole army up 12 times seems pretty good.

[Withershadow]

And that's basically what we did. First was picking one TK/Pyro power of choice and then rolling on Biomancy, which had my 2x9 sekhmet just plowing through crap.

 

I'm okay with going with the middle interpretation because it feels like a compromise and in general draws less whining.

[pompeyladbfp]

And that's basically what we did. First was picking one TK/Pyro power of choice and then rolling on Biomancy, which had my 2x9 sekhmet just plowing through crap.

 

I'm okay with going with the middle interpretation because it feels like a compromise and in general draws less whining.

 the middle is clearly what was intended and is currently RAW on the sekhmet entry, so I would personally always go with just choosing two powers from those 2 decks

[Learn2Eel]

Choosing from Pyromancy and Telekinesis is actually really snazzy, randomly generating powers from other disciplines can so often leave you with a selection of useless powers so even having guaranteed rolls on two of the weaker disciplines gives you assured flexibility and lets you plan out some strategies. Levitating your nasty characters around with the deadly Sekhmet lets you get by without unloading your points into transports, though obviously you do sacrifice a bit when it comes to survival. Still, I'd rather have two Levitating Sekhmet units than one unit waiting patiently in a Land Raider/Spartan for the same points. Pyromancy is also fairly useful depending on what you play against; the Nova will decimate light infantry, the Beam handles most everything else. Or you could just stick to Maelstrom to lob Vindicator shells around. 

Basically, I don't mind being forced to pick powers from Pyromancy and Telekinesis while being limited to just those two disciplines. I think it's a fair trade-off for all the other awesome bonuses the Sekhmet get, and picking powers - as discussed prior - is great with pretty much any psychic discipline. Just as an aside, even if they were forced to roll their powers rather than pick and were still restricted to Pyromancy and Telekinesis, they'd still be a really nice unit; two-wounds each, able to choose between the various armour types, discounted combi-weapons, free Asphyx Shells, Mastery Level 2, Stubborn, Force weapons, etc. 

Edited March 7, 2017 by Learn2Eel

[Nusquam]

Minus their psychic stuff Sekhmet are still a steal for what they do when you tally all their gear, rules, and stats up. They can definitely choose as-is. Even if they FAQ it to "must choose from TK and PM" they would still be hugely discounted. In normal games passing up guaranteed levitation and beam/maelstrom is a huge risk, even rolling on biomancy. The only reason I rolled on bio was because we were doing zone mortalis and I didn't need levitate. The second game they got enfeeble and I never even used it. In normal games deepstriking them with levi and beam/maelstrom is too good not to use. There's ML3 praetors to fish on biomancy anyway.

[Angmarred]

I really like the idea of s combat shield Raptora Assault Squad as a bodyguard for a Jump a Pack Biomancy Praetor. Does that unit have a place in a "competitive" list?

[Charlo]

It ain't bad that's for sure.

 

Having that 5++ in the open with an attached apothecary too is pretty neat.

 

The Preator will also more than likely need to be Raptora though, as your compulsory troops must match the arcana of the HQ. So he won't be able to harness Bio on a 3+ with Pavoni.

 

Maybe a command squad instead, as they don't need to match the arcana and can take better weapons and combat Shields, AND still have an apothecary. Plus thy have a 2+ base.

[Angmarred]

It ain't bad that's for sure.

 

Having that 5++ in the open with an attached apothecary too is pretty neat.

 

The Preator will also more than likely need to be Raptora though, as your compulsory troops must match the arcana of the HQ. So he won't be able to harness Bio on a 3+ with Pavoni.

 

Maybe a command squad instead, as they don't need to match the arcana and can take better weapons and combat Shields, AND still have an apothecary. Plus thy have a 2+ base.

I think I'd go Raptora for the Praetor regardless. I think 3++ and harness on 4+ is better than the opposite. Plus this is likely a Crimson King list, so compulsory is Sehkmet and they are almost mandatory Raptora.

 

I hadn't even considered a command squad. That's a really good idea. I'll look into that. Thanks.

 

Edit: looked into it. 30 points base? No thank you. You can get 2.5 Assault marines for that.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Angmarred

[Runefyre]

But the +1WS and artificer armour can make a huge difference in survivability. Being able to tank battle cannon rounds with impunity is pretty handy and hitting on 3's can save your bacon versus really tough units like terminators.

[Angmarred]

I don't know. Maybe I'm under rating them.

 

240 gets you a full 5 squad (6 wounds), 2+/5++ (4++ in Assault), Jump packs, 3 power weapons, fearless

 

For Assault marines, 240 gets you 10 guys, 3+/same invul, Jump packs, 3 power weapons and scoring

 

It's actually closer than I maybe thought.

[Withershadow]

Command squad is not worth it with Jump packs, you pay too much for not enough bodies. On foot they are cheap and the jump pack savings buy you an apothecary.

[Angmarred]

Command squad is not worth it with Jump packs, you pay too much for not enough bodies. On foot they are cheap and the jump pack savings buy you an apothecary.

So if you wanted to run a Jump Praetor (and I really do) you'd have him roll with an assault squad?

[Nusquam]

Up to 20 ablative 3+/5++(4++) wounds sounds pretty good.