[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[Ranwulf]

So lets assume that mostly running infantry is decent in Pale Hunter. What is a better bet for Anti-tank, Legion Dreads, Javs, or SA Leman Russ tank varients. 

I picked a Lightning with Missiles. Since we probably won't use that many Fast Attack vechiles, having maybe two of these flyers can compensate a lot for weakness in the "destroy tanks" department.

 

Ran

[Runefyre]

 

So lets assume that mostly running infantry is decent in Pale Hunter. What is a better bet for Anti-tank, Legion Dreads, Javs, or SA Leman Russ tank varients. 

I picked a Lightning with Missiles. Since we probably won't use that many Fast Attack vechiles, having maybe two of these flyers can compensate a lot for weakness in the "destroy tanks" department.

 

Ran

 

 

 

So lets assume that mostly running infantry is decent in Pale Hunter. What is a better bet for Anti-tank, Legion Dreads, Javs, or SA Leman Russ tank varients. 

I picked a Lightning with Missiles. Since we probably won't use that many Fast Attack vechiles, having maybe two of these flyers can compensate a lot for weakness in the "destroy tanks" department.

 

Ran

 

Personally I like the flexibility of javelins. They can start on the board and threaten vehicles or hordes with their CML's, or they can stay in reserves and outflank on a 2+. The same tactic holds true for Grey Slayers, stick them on the board if you feel safe, otherwise outflank them on a 2+ (provided you're taking Red-blade, and you ARE running Redblad e aren't you?

[TompiQ]

So the general sentiment is that Russ is the new king of primarch duels if you discount Biomancy Magnus (which you should, because he is straight up ridonk). I decided to put this to the test by mathhammering a duel between him and the previous king, mechanicus pseudo-primarch Anacharis Scoria. I'm too lazy to explain every step and reasoning behind it, but here's the math with each of Russ's weapon options included (hint, most effective in this duel was pouring all attacks into Helwinter or using 1 Helwinter attack and 5 Balenight. These actually gave an equal result due to how I handled Master-Crafted).

 

Here's the math:

 

WOUNDS PER TURN WITH BALENIGHT

6 * 2/3 * 3/4 * 1/3 * 2/3 + 2/3 * 21/36 * 2 * 1/3 * 2/3 = 0.8395

 

6 * 2/3 * 3/4 * 1/3 * 2/3 + 2/3 * 21/36 * 2 * 2/9 = 0.8395

 

6 * 2/3 * 3/4 * 1/3 * 2/3 + 2/3 * 21/36 * 4/9 = 0.8395

 

6 * 2/3 * 3/4 * 1/3 * 2/3 + 2/3 * 21/81 = 0.8395

 

6 * 2/3 * 3/4 * 1/3 * 2/3 + 14/81 = 0.8395

 

6 * 2/3 * 3/4 * 2/9 + 14/81 = 0.8395

 

6 * 2/3 * 6/36 + 14/81 = 0.8395

 

6 * 12/108 + 14/81 = 0.8395

 

72/108 + 14/81 = 0.8395

 

2/3 + 14/81 = 0.8395

 

54/81 + 14/81 = 0.8395

 

68/81 = 0.8395 (109/162=0.6728 after IWND)

 

WOUNDS PER TURN WITH HELWINTER

7 * 2/3 * 5/6 * 2/3 * 1/3 = 0.8642

 

7 * 2/3 * 5/6 * 2/9 = 0.8642

 

7 * 2/3 * 10/54 = 0.8642

 

7 * 20/162 = 0.8642

 

140/162 = 0.8642

 

70/81 = 0.8642 (113/162=0.6975 after IWND)

 

 

WOUNDS PER TURN WITH 1 HELWINTER AND 5 BALEFUL

5 * 2/3 * 3/4 * 1/3 * 2/3 + 5/9 * 21/36 * 2 * 1/3 * 2/3 + 8/9 * 5/6 * 2/3 * 1/3 = 0.8642

 

135/243 + 35/243 + 40/243 = 0.8642

 

210/243 = 0.8642

 

70/81 = 0.8642 (113/162=0.6975 after IWND)

 

RUSS KILLS SCORIA IN 7 ROUNDS (70/81 + 113/162 * 6 = 5.0493

 

SCORIA T1

4 * 1/3 * 2 * 1/2 + 2 * 1/3 * 1/2 * 1/2 = 1.5

 

4 * 1/3 * 2 * 1/2 + 2 * 1/3 * 1/4 = 1.5

 

4 * 1/3 * 2 * 1/2 + 2 * 1/12 = 1.5

 

4 * 1/3 * 2 * 1/2 + 1/6 = 1.5

 

4 * 1/3 + 1/6 = 1.5

 

4/3 + 1/6 = 1.5

 

9/6 = 1.5 (4/3=1.3333 after IWND)

 

SCORIA T2 ONWARD

Half the T1 results before IWND, so 3/4 = 0.75 (7/12=0.5833 after IWND)

 

SCORIA KILLS RUSS IN 9 ROUNDS (4/3 + 3/4 + 7/12 * 7 = 6,1667)

 

End result? Russ kills Scoria after 7 rounds of combat, while Scoria needs 9 to kill Russ. Had his armour been a permanent -1 to hit, Scoria would win after 6 rounds. He's the first Primarch to accomplish this without psychic powers.

[Nova_chron]

@the native you can take multiple javelin per squadron unless I miss read your post I am on the tail end of a 20hour day so it's possible but I do like the idea of speeders to fill anti tank in a pale hunters RoW now I just need to get a bloodied claw list thought up and start building towards it.

[The Native]

@the native you can take multiple javelin per squadron unless I miss read your post I am on the tail end of a 20hour day so it's possible but I do like the idea of speeders to fill anti tank in a pale hunters RoW now I just need to get a bloodied claw list thought up and start building towards it.

No, you're right. I'm an idiot. I always forget the option to add more in the options and only remember the unit composition of 1...

[Nova_chron]

All good brother we have all been there

[Frater Cornelius]

I am still not pleased with the high dependency on assault, but the more I look at the rules, the more I like them. There is a refreshing simplicity to be found here without compromising efficiency. You can make some truly excellent overload lists with Red-Blade scouting (for example) two blobs of Grey Slayers and himself with a unit of TDA (on foot or in a Spartan), while a Raider with the Morkai guys speeds alongside. Add some Outriders with Apothecaries scouting some Plasma goddness and, depending on points, some Contemptor Cortus fellas with Grav and you will be in the opponents face before he can make another joke about furries.

 

Well, you are screwed against an Acheron, Typhon or Chem Malcador, but what army isn't. Pack a Sicaran Venator for those cases.

[Nova_chron]

Immersturm you make a good point I feel that while we are a very assault oriented army with the right list building we can cover most of our own bases even in pale hunt I just have to invest in some speeders and outriders now I think

[Frater Cornelius]

Immersturm you make a good point I feel that while we are a very assault oriented army with the right list building we can cover most of our own bases even in pale hunt I just have to invest in some speeders and outriders now I think

 

Agreed. Maybe a Pale Hunter list with less heavy mech and more emphasis on infantry, Outriders and Speeders, with the option of outflanking and reserves on a 2+. There are plenty of options, though they all have one thing in common. High pressure and not much sitting back and firing yo laz0r.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Also, was I the only one hoping for shields of some kind other than the combat shields? Something that screams "Shield Wall"!

You do realise that we have the 'swiftest breachers in all the legions?

 

Our bonus run/ consolidation move cancels out the penalty for void hardened armour.

 

And my breachers will still be making an appearance in my wolf lists!

[Hfran Morkai]

I'm not going to lie, I'm currently working on my list but don't know what to do with my Slayer Huscarls, Artificer armour is a given but not sure what weapons to give him. If Great Frost Blade was listed I'd take it in a heartbeat for hitting before Power Fists/Thunder Hammersmith and then I'd hide a Power Fist or two in the unit.

 

How important is it that characters have AP2 in 30K games?

[Runefyre]

I'm not going to lie, I'm currently working on my list but don't know what to do with my Slayer Huscarls, Artificer armour is a given but not sure what weapons to give him. If Great Frost Blade was listed I'd take it in a heartbeat for hitting before Power Fists/Thunder Hammersmith and then I'd hide a Power Fist or two in the unit.

 

How important is it that characters have AP2 in 30K games?

Artificer armour sergeants are extremely common. 2+ saves are the norm in challenges. And Slayer Huscarls can take great frost swords, it's in the wording of the frost weapon section. Technically GFS's are a frost weapon, and the upgrade doesn't specify which one you get to take.

[Ishagu]

Absolutely love the SW rules.

 

Love that you can transport the Primarch alongside a support character and the 2 giant wolves in a Landraider. I would love this unit :-D

 

The regular troops are really cool, great value overall with a few cc weapons chucked it.

 

Great characters as well, I especially like the guy from the BoP set.

[Runefyre]

Here's another 2000 point Pale Hunter list I've come up with:

 

HQ

 

Red-blade

 

Praevian (castellax w/darkfire cannon)

 

Praevian (castellax w/darkfire cannon)

 

Troops

 

2x) GS squads (20 dudes, two power weapons, aa, power weapon huscarl)

 

Elites

 

Varagyr (6 dudes, spartan DT)

 

Fast attack

 

Javelin

 

Javelin

 

Outriders (3x meltaguns/plasmaguns)

 

What do you think?

[Frater Cornelius]

What are the benefits of taking Castellax with Wolves? Counter Attack and WS5 and that it or am I missing something? Can you Scout them by giving the Praevian Scout with Red-Blade?

[Runefyre]

What are the benefits of taking Castellax with Wolves? Counter Attack and WS5 and that it or am I missing something? Can you Scout them by giving the Praevian Scout with Red-Blade?

I wasn't planning to give the castellax scout (that goes to the grey slayers and varagyr, scouting Spartan!). But with the wording of Hit and Run, the praevians actually confer it to their castellax. Combine that with +1WS on the charge, rage+ongoing combat charge bonus, and the versatility of darkfire cannons I think they create some nice support units for the grey slayers. Plus it adds to the unit saturation.

[Hfran Morkai]

Well damn Great Frost Blades are a fine take for Slayer Huscarls then. Just struck me as odd that they have an additional cost over other Frost Weapons for ICs.

[Frater Cornelius]

Ah yes, HnR. It should work. Infantry models have it and it is enough when one model has it. Technically, you could make Varagyr HnR if you have a non-TDA character there.

 

Speaking of Varagyr. I am still split. The Morkai guys and Grey Slayers are dope. But the TDA seem woefully overpriced.

[Runefyre]

Ah yes, HnR. It should work. Infantry models have it and it is enough when one model has it. Technically, you could make Varagyr HnR if you have a non-TDA character there.

 

Speaking of Varagyr. I am still split. The Morkai guys and Grey Slayers are dope. But the TDA seem woefully overpriced.

Varagyr are very expensive and feel very fragile thanks to only one wound. But I'm still gonna run them anyway

 

I want to make a list that centers around Deathsworn, I think they need to be spammed to be effective. Just taking 5 in an army feels ineffective to me.

[Baluc]

Ah yes, HnR. It should work. Infantry models have it and it is enough when one model has it. Technically, you could make Varagyr HnR if you have a non-TDA character there.

 

Speaking of Varagyr. I am still split. The Morkai guys and Grey Slayers are dope. But the TDA seem woefully overpriced.

 

It depends on your character load out. Since only Speakers of the Dead can join Deathsworn, Since you will always need at least a Praetor/centurian in your list you need a place to put him. 

 

Here's another 2000 point Pale Hunter list I've come up with:

 

HQ

 

Red-blade

 

Praevian (castellax w/darkfire cannon)

 

Praevian (castellax w/darkfire cannon)

 

Troops

 

2x) GS squads (20 dudes, two power weapons, aa, power weapon huscarl)

 

Elites

 

Varagyr (6 dudes, spartan DT)

 

Fast attack

 

Javelin

 

Javelin

 

Outriders (3x meltaguns/plasmaguns)

 

What do you think?

 

You actually can't take 2 Praevens and Redblade. Your detachment must include either a Praetor or a Centurian without a consul upgrade.

[1ncarnadine]

 

Here's another 2000 point Pale Hunter list I've come up with:

 

HQ

 

Red-blade

 

Praevian (castellax w/darkfire cannon)

 

Praevian (castellax w/darkfire cannon)

 

Troops

 

2x) GS squads (20 dudes, two power weapons, aa, power weapon huscarl)

 

Elites

 

Varagyr (6 dudes, spartan DT)

 

Fast attack

 

Javelin

 

Javelin

 

Outriders (3x meltaguns/plasmaguns)

 

What do you think?

 

You actually can't take 2 Praevens and Redblade. Your detachment must include either a Praetor or a Centurian without a consul upgrade.

 

 

 

^truth. 1 per 1000 points. You can make the Praevian unit bigger and put the Centurion in the Outriders or Varagyr, though. Maybe use spare points on upgrades like HKs on the Javelins if you don't have them already.

Edited February 8, 2017 by LetsYouDown

[Nova_chron]

Personally I would believe red blade covers that as he is jarl of 4th company but if that is not the case that would really suck... also I personally would love if it was a non support officer centurion at least so I could take a champion or the like as that is the consul that comes to mind when I think of a claw leader

[Runefyre]

My group has already house-ruled Red-blade and Fell-hand to count as a praetor for the purposes of that rule. It's like what FW intended but never clarified.

 

If I ever play against a rules-lawer I'll be sure to clean up the list.

[Frater Cornelius]

That limitation is somewhat strange. It means we can not take Wolf Priests or Rune Priests at 2001-3000pts at all, since we would need 3 Centurions and/or Praetors. Seems rather awkward.

[1ncarnadine]

Hmmm. It's 1 HQ per 1000 points (any, other than the barred Primus Medicae, Chaplain & Librarian) and the Compulsory HQ choice must be a Praetor or non-Consul Centurion. Red-blade should satisfy that by any common sense but it's an oversight to not list him as a Praetor because many will claim RAW against it...