TheWolfLord Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Couple of points for people: FW confirmed at the Open Day that Hvarl and Geigor count as a Praetor/Centurion with regards to the Legion requirements. Iron Priest box-out: 30 points for a Master of Signal or Praevian to take to Æther-rune armour, or 20 points for a Forge Lord (who has artificer armour already). Bit of a typo, but that's how it plays. Not convinced that Huscarls get great frost blades. It should specify them. It also seems that Space Wolves get to take as many HQs as their Legion requirements ask for, ie. 5 in a 5,000-point game. Can I ask were you at the open day? I wasn't but I asked someone who was going on the Sunday to ask about Geigor and Red-Blade. They supposedly asked during the Seminar and was told the opposite that Geigor and Red-Blade were not intended to be a Centurion or Praetor. Agree that we get 5 HQs in 5000 point list. Also agree that it's not clear that Huscarls can take Great Frost Blades either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I'm just kicking myself for not holding off building my tartaros terminators cause I want to make redblade so badly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robzilla Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Couple of points for people: FW confirmed at the Open Day that Hvarl and Geigor count as a Praetor/Centurion with regards to the Legion requirements. Iron Priest box-out: 30 points for a Master of Signal or Praevian to take to Æther-rune armour, or 20 points for a Forge Lord (who has artificer armour already). Bit of a typo, but that's how it plays. Not convinced that Huscarls get great frost blades. It should specify them. It also seems that Space Wolves get to take as many HQs as their Legion requirements ask for, ie. 5 in a 5,000-point game. Can I ask were you at the open day? I wasn't but I asked someone who was going on the Sunday to ask about Geigor and Red-Blade. They supposedly asked during the Seminar and was told the opposite that Geigor and Red-Blade were not intended to be a Centurion or Praetor. Agree that we get 5 HQs in 5000 point list. Also agree that it's not clear that Huscarls can take Great Frost Blades either. The only thing I'm in doubt of is the frost weapon. Considering the price of the upgrade, (three times that of a power weapon) and the fact that it costs more than a power fist, for literally zero gain due to specialist weapon rules if you were to pick stamdard blade or axe, I'm pretty certain it must be meant to allow the great frost blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranwulf Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Couple of points for people: FW confirmed at the Open Day that Hvarl and Geigor count as a Praetor/Centurion with regards to the Legion requirements. Iron Priest box-out: 30 points for a Master of Signal or Praevian to take to Æther-rune armour, or 20 points for a Forge Lord (who has artificer armour already). Bit of a typo, but that's how it plays. Not convinced that Huscarls get great frost blades. It should specify them. It also seems that Space Wolves get to take as many HQs as their Legion requirements ask for, ie. 5 in a 5,000-point game. Can I ask were you at the open day? I wasn't but I asked someone who was going on the Sunday to ask about Geigor and Red-Blade. They supposedly asked during the Seminar and was told the opposite that Geigor and Red-Blade were not intended to be a Centurion or Praetor. Agree that we get 5 HQs in 5000 point list. Also agree that it's not clear that Huscarls can take Great Frost Blades either. The only thing I'm in doubt of is the frost weapon. Considering the price of the upgrade, (three times that of a power weapon) and the fact that it costs more than a power fist, for literally zero gain due to specialist weapon rules if you were to pick stamdard blade or axe, I'm pretty certain it must be meant to allow the great frost blade. It is my understanding as well. You can get the Frost Weapon on IC with a Power Weapon, and then paying more for it. At this point, they cost the same price. Ran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWolfLord Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I agree it's the same price for Huscarls as IC but why make Swords, Axes and Claws so expensive if they cover all? It's quite common for the weapon choices for units, Sergeants and IC to all be different. There's currently nothing RAW that says they cannot take them, it just feels like we may be disappointed in the future if FW clarify it. They're a great option and only Paragon Blade wielding HQs will want to face them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 1500 list I've just thrown together: Orbital Assault Shenanigans Praetor 187 Tartaros Terminator Armour Iron Halo Digital Lasers Grenade Harness Combi-Melta Great Frost Blade Command Squad 174 Tartaros Terminator Armour 4 Chosen Grenade Harness Reaper Autocannon 2 Combi-Melta Lightning Claw Chain Fist Thunder Hammer Speaker of the Dead 132 Tartaros Terminator Armour Combi-Melta Grey Slayer Pack 238 (x2:476) 10 Slayers Drop Pod 9 Bolters Power Fist Vexilla Nunico Vox Artificer Armour Great Frost Blade Meltabombs Contemptor 300 Chain Fist w/Meltagun Multi-Melta Dreadnought Drop Pod Javelin Squadron 130 2 Javelin w/Cyclone Missile Launchers 2 Multi-Melta Javelin Squadron 75 Twin Linked Lascannon 2 Hunter Killer Missiles Comes to 1474 if my maths isn't horribly off. I think I'm little too light on bodies but not sure as been out of the game for years. Could drop the Nunico Vox on at least one of the Slayer packs as not running that many pods/Terminators. Possibly drop the hidden fists as well and look at generally shaving points to invest in another squad. What do you more experienced Brothers think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 One thing I just thought of did anyone confirm redblade is carrying a heavy bolter with the guys at FW? I want to be sure before I convert him up with one. Fenbain 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWolfLord Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 One thing I just thought of did anyone confirm redblade is carrying a heavy bolter with the guys at FW? I want to be sure before I convert him up with one. Why would it need confirming? It clearly says Heavy Bolter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Ehh cause I've seen it happen before like on Kyr'Valen relic blade was supposed to be paragon blade Fenbain 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 And no terminator unit in the history of the game has been equipped with a Heavy Bolter :) Fenbain 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) 1500 list I've just thrown together: Orbital Assault Shenanigans Praetor 187 Tartaros Terminator Armour Iron Halo Digital Lasers Grenade Harness Combi-Melta Great Frost Blade Command Squad 174 Tartaros Terminator Armour 4 Chosen Grenade Harness Reaper Autocannon 2 Combi-Melta Lightning Claw Chain Fist Thunder Hammer Speaker of the Dead 132 Tartaros Terminator Armour Combi-Melta Grey Slayer Pack 238 (x2:476) 10 Slayers Drop Pod 9 Bolters Power Fist Vexilla Nunico Vox Artificer Armour Great Frost Blade Meltabombs Contemptor 300 Chain Fist w/Meltagun Multi-Melta Dreadnought Drop Pod Javelin Squadron 130 2 Javelin w/Cyclone Missile Launchers 2 Multi-Melta Javelin Squadron 75 Twin Linked Lascannon 2 Hunter Killer Missiles Comes to 1474 if my maths isn't horribly off. I think I'm little too light on bodies but not sure as been out of the game for years. Could drop the Nunico Vox on at least one of the Slayer packs as not running that many pods/Terminators. Possibly drop the hidden fists as well and look at generally shaving points to invest in another squad. What do you more experienced Brothers think? Your army will suffer from having only two units on the board turn 1. If they get destroyed you autolose at the end of the first turn. Here's alternate list I've created in the same vein as your current one but with more pods. HQ Praetor (tartaros terminator armour, paragon blade, digital lasers, grenade harness, iron halo) legion command squad ( tartaros terminator armour, plasma blaster, 3 chainfists) Speaker of the Dead (combi-weapon) Troops Grey Slayer squad (9 bolters, power fist, vexilla, nuncio vox, Huscarl: great frost blade, mbs, aa, drop pod DT) Grey Slayer squad (9 bolters, power fist, vexilla, Huscarl: great frost blade, mbs, aa, drop pod DT) elites Contemptor cortus (DDP, graviton gun, multimelta) Fast Attack Seeker squad (aa, nuncio vox, drop pod DT) Dreadclaw drop pod Now everything is in a pod, with 3 coming in first turn. You can keep both Grey Slayer squads back to grab objectives turn 2 while the contemptor and termies get suck in. The seekers will benefit immensely from the speakers preferred enemy, they should be able to wipe a unit the turn they arrive. Plus they can score. Hope this helps Edited February 9, 2017 by Runefyre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWolfLord Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Ehh cause I've seen it happen before like on Kyr'Valen relic blade was supposed to be paragon blade Maybe at some point they will change it but for now it's clear. If I need to update the model after an Errata I will but until then it's a Heavy Bolter for me. gizur and Runefyre 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Awesome, thank you Runefyre, I hadn't even looked at Seekers as I know people typically prefer Veterans. I'll have a rejig of my list. It'll be much easier to play with when BS repositories update with Inferno stuff. Currently pen and papering it hah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 @TheWolfLord, unfortunately I wasn't at the Open Day (or even in the same country). However, I have seen a few people state that they asked and were told they count as a Wolf Lord (here and on Heresy30k). To be fair, that doesn't make it in any way official, but there has to be a degree of common sense with FW releases! Makes them a very average choice above 1000 points if you also need to grab an ordinary Praetor/Centurion to fill your Compulsory HQ, when you could take a Priest of Fenris or Consul instead! I'm not sold on the Huscarl's frost "weapon" meaning a great frost blade too. Sure, it could mean that, but why doesn't it say it explicitly? It's far and away the best choice - if one of the ordinary frost blades was unavailable, do you think anyone would question it? :P But yes, until we hear any more, Hvarl has a heavy bolter. And let's be real - it is so cool that he has one! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Ehh cause I've seen it happen before like on Kyr'Valen relic blade was supposed to be paragon bladeMaybe at some point they will change it but for now it's clear. If I need to update the model after an Errata I will but until then it's a Heavy Bolter for me. I agree and will likely do the same if it happens... now to find a suitable heavy bolter and a fresh tartaros body... although I do have that slaughter priest lying around from WD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Awesome, thank you Runefyre, I hadn't even looked at Seekers as I know people typically prefer Veterans. I'll have a rejig of my list. It'll be much easier to play with when BS repositories update with Inferno stuff. Currently pen and papering it hah you could certainly take vets instead of seekers. they're more killy in general, but seekers threaten both elite units (scorpius bolts) and hordes (tempest bolts, rapid fired small blasts ftw!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) @TheWolfLord, unfortunately I wasn't at the Open Day (or even in the same country). However, I have seen a few people state that they asked and were told they count as a Wolf Lord (here and on Heresy30k). To be fair, that doesn't make it in any way official, but there has to be a degree of common sense with FW releases! Makes them a very average choice above 1000 points if you also need to grab an ordinary Praetor/Centurion to fill your Compulsory HQ, when you could take a Priest of Fenris or Consul instead! I'm not sold on the Huscarl's frost "weapon" meaning a great frost blade too. Sure, it could mean that, but why doesn't it say it explicitly? It's far and away the best choice - if one of the ordinary frost blades was unavailable, do you think anyone would question it? But yes, until we hear any more, Hvarl has a heavy bolter. And let's be real - it is so cool that he has one! So you are ok with 1 vague not spelled out at all interpretation. But, not a second slightly more spelled out interpretation? The HQ situation is/was/will be super uncalled for. Has anyone managed to fit Russ in an army under 3K without have a tiny army? 2.5 seems like the best place to field a Primarch, once you get to 3k and start seeing Warhounds and such Primarch doesn't really produce the same awe/panic. But this minimum spend of 400 pts on Hqs is horrifying to build around, at 2.5. I'm starting to find ways to get an army that functions but its a) usually includes allies, and b ) usually requires spamming the cheapest and most effective support units. I don't have a single list with Deathsworn or Varagyr yet at 2.5. Haven't looked at Contemptors, or Dreads, my heavy support is usually empty. Edited February 9, 2017 by Baluc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 @TheWolfLord, unfortunately I wasn't at the Open Day (or even in the same country). However, I have seen a few people state that they asked and were told they count as a Wolf Lord (here and on Heresy30k). To be fair, that doesn't make it in any way official, but there has to be a degree of common sense with FW releases! Makes them a very average choice above 1000 points if you also need to grab an ordinary Praetor/Centurion to fill your Compulsory HQ, when you could take a Priest of Fenris or Consul instead! I'm not sold on the Huscarl's frost "weapon" meaning a great frost blade too. Sure, it could mean that, but why doesn't it say it explicitly? It's far and away the best choice - if one of the ordinary frost blades was unavailable, do you think anyone would question it? But yes, until we hear any more, Hvarl has a heavy bolter. And let's be real - it is so cool that he has one! So you are ok with 1 vague not spelled out at all interpretation. But, not a second slightly more spelled out interpretation? The HQ situation is/was/will be super uncalled for. Has anyone managed to fit Russ in an army under 3K without have a tiny army? 2.5 seems like the best place to field a Primarch, once you get to 3k and start seeing Warhounds and such Primarch doesn't really produce the same awe/panic. But this minimum spend of 400 pts on Hqs is horrifying to build around, at 2.5. I'm starting to find ways to get an army that functions but its a) usually includes allies, and b ) usually requires spamming the cheapest and most effective support units. I don't have a single list with Deathsworn or Varagyr yet at 2.5. Haven't looked at Contemptors, or Dreads, my heavy support is usually empty. I've pretty much relegated Deathsworn to zone mortalis. They suffer from the exact same problem 40k wulfen have, no easy way to get into combat and don't have the numbers to survive until they do. Varagyr are still useful, you just can't afford to upgrade them at all. 6 dudes in a spartan will still make a helluva retinue for Russ or Red-blade. WS6 on the charge at Str8 AP2 is not bad at all. Playing them with 2W makes them SOOO much more reliable for their points. And unfortunately Primarchs are incredibly underpowered when you reach 3000 points. If I could bring Russ in a thunderhawk or sokar that would be amazing. Especially with 2+ reserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I typically don't field spartans as I feel the points inflate too quickly. Which gives me only a few places to put and HQ in Pale Hunter, Command squad, vets, seekers. I've gone Terminator Command Squad for Red-blade, and 1 HQ choice, in a Phobos. Frater Cornelius 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) Could be off a Few Points my Math is not very good I left myself some Wiggle Room until battle scribe gets upgraded but this is what Im thinking at 3000 2958/3000 Orbital Assault ------------------------------------- HQ Speaker of the Dead - 150 ( With Veteran Squad 1 ) Aether Rune Armor Great Frost Blade Wolfkin of Russ - 100 ( In Dreadclaw with Russ ) Preator - 150 ( In Dreadclaw with Russ) Iron Halo Great Frost Blade --------------------------- Elite Contemptor Cortus Dreadnought 260 TL Las Cannon Dreadnought Drop Pod ------------------------------------ Troop Varagyr - Stock With Axes 280 ( Gain Native Deep strike due to ROW ) < - First thing I would cut from the list honestly but I do have points to potentially get a vox or two on some of my infantry 2x Chainfist Veteran Tac Squad 1 203 [MARKSMAN] 8 Veterans + 1 Sargent Drop Pod Artificer Armor and Combi Weapon On Sargent Veteran Tac Squad 2 215 [ MARKSMAN ] 9 Veterans +1 Sargent Drop Pod Artificer Armor and Combi Weapon On Sargent Grey Slayer Pack 1 - 125+ 95 = 220 Drop Pod 35 2 Power Fists 20 AA On Huscarl 10 Frost Weapon on Huscarl 15 Power sword x2 Power Axe 15 Grey Slayer Pack 2 - 125+ 95 = 220 Drop Pod 35 2 Power Fists 20 AA On Huscarl 10 Frost Weapon on Huscarl 15 Power sword x2 Power Axe 15 ------------------------------------------------- Heavy Support Levithan Pattern Dreadnought 410 Dreadnought Drop Pod Claw Drill Phosphex Armored Ceramite -------------------------------------------------- Fast Attack Lightning Strike Fighter 185 Battle Servitors Kraken Pair x1 Dreadclaw Drop Pod 115 ------------------------------------------------- Leman Russ - 455 Edited February 9, 2017 by Bladewolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I just had a look through the Thousand Sons rules scans, and wow, varagyr are feeling very overcosted compared to sekhmet. Grey Slayers are definitely the best thing to happen to the Wolves special unit-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purge the Daemon Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) I just had a look through the Thousand Sons rules scans, and wow, varagyr are feeling very overcosted compared to sekhmet. Grey Slayers are definitely the best thing to happen to the Wolves special unit-wise. Varagyr don't even look like they should be the same points as Sekhmet nevermind substantially more. Nevermind Sekhmet benefiting fully from legion rules and right of wars. Where Varagyr don't get half the benefits of either. Edited February 9, 2017 by Purge the Daemon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) I do enjoy the feeling of vindication. Is there another legion with as many restrictions and compulsory choices as SW? I have been able to come up with a Pale Hunter archetype that I will probably build around. OA has been a little more rough, what kinds of shooting units have people been working with? There are a lot of small things that are disappointing. - Like Moritats not being able to join Deathsworn - the absurd naked centurian/Praetor tax - why they didn't just replace tactical squads with Grey Slayers and left the compulsory rule out of it, while giving us some sort of flesh over steel type rule, like every other legion - No Jump packs/bikes/jetbikes on Priests - no jump packs on Deathsworn - Deathsworn could have been interesting, 3+ 2 wound infantry unit, maybe 6+ FnP something to make them not the usual legion unit - The crazy Varagyr cost - Warrior Mettle should have been the LA:SW rule, and Hunter's Gait the Grey Slayer rule. Then we could actually have a choice to attach characters to them, and give up the +1, but at least the unit would still function. And, it still would encourage a most infantry army. Edited February 9, 2017 by Baluc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I will most likely find my shooting in the fast attack and heavy slots with support squads in troops if i run pale hunter but I've got a mind to find a way to make bloodied claws lethal and it allows me to keep my tank count high. I am a full on treadhead but I do have to admit I'm struggling with the lists currently mostly trying to find places for the compulsory HQs we have to take and what to take I really wish we could take consuls for the compulsory HQ instead of a praetor or stock centurion... IronDrake28 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purge the Daemon Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I will most likely find my shooting in the fast attack and heavy slots with support squads in troops if i run pale hunter but I've got a mind to find a way to make bloodied claws lethal and it allows me to keep my tank count high. I am a full on treadhead but I do have to admit I'm struggling with the lists currently mostly trying to find places for the compulsory HQs we have to take and what to take I really wish we could take consuls for the compulsory HQ instead of a praetor or stock centurion... This is the biggest struggle I find myself constantly needing Storm eagles/Spartans/Kharybidis to even slot my hq choices in since all of them can't join Grey Slayers or I risk losing warriors mettle. And then non priests can't join Deathsworn either what a pain. Like I get it restrictions are a thing sure but due to the restrictions units have on characters joining and then our need to take more characters is just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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