General Discussion Secundus

[Sigismund229]

Ee-e-e-um-um-a-weh

Ee-e-e-um-um-a-weh

 

Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh

Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh

Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh

Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh

 

On the planet, the mighty planet

The lion fights tonight

On the planet, the dangerous planet

The lion fights tonight

 

Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh

Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh

Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh

Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh

 

 

Near the 'serker, the brutal 'serkers

The lion fights tonight

Close to Raktra, the evil Raktra

The lion fights tonight

 

Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh

Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh

Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh

Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh

 

Fear him traitors, yes fear him traitors

The lion fights tonight

Fear him traitors, yes fear him traitors

The lion Domes for you tonight

 

Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh

Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh

Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh

Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh

 

Ee-e-e-um-um-a-weh

Ee-e-e-um-um-a-weh

 

Crimson Lion Song oft Legend

 

I almost shed a tear at the beauty of it...and thay's just the song.

[simison]

Rules-crowd: Raktra, Talonair

 

In-between: Redd (no rules for vehicles yet)

 

Fluff-crowd: Kelborn, Mikhal, 

 

So far, it's fairly equal. What if we pushed the Legion rules back to Beta Phase? So, Alpha Phase is just the Legion fluff chapters? People who still want to work on the rules for their Legions can do so, but the primary focus of the project will be on getting the fluff done.

[Raktra]

I'm fine with sticking to fluff too, I just know I'm far weaker at it.

[Chief Captain Redd]

I'll second that Simi; After all going back to the core of what drives the HH is an absolutely epic mythos.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Hope you will still cry of joy when you see the next step^^ (the head)

[simison]

I'm waiting until 7 pm my time to make a final ruling to see if anyone else has an opinion.

 

In other news, there will be no D Weapons in 8th edition.

[Chief Captain Redd]

While I haven't actually played a game of 2nd in 18 years probably; the "new" mechanics so far seem like a strong call back to it in many ways, and balance feels far better so far; like Land Raiders will be mighty again.

[Grifftofer]

On the rules/fluff discussion, I'm in favour of us continuing to develop the rules, but as more of a side task for now. I think that the 8th Ed change may well be significant enough that we'll need to reconsider things fairly significantly in terms of rules, but I think that having a base from which to work (7th ed) will give us a better way of converting across to the new edition. We'll have the entirety of 40k, and hopefully 30k units to use for comparisons so that even if it isn't an easy process at least it will be quicker.

 

My concern is that if we get to the changeover without the starting points then those of us who have been providing feedback will be in a weaker position to do so with the major differences. That will slow down the whole thing even further on top of the potential delay of not starting until FW swaps the HH ruleset over.

[~Drakzilla~]

Knowing Forgeworld's pace, it could be years before they eventually port over to 8th. I'm in favor of continuing making rules until then, for all the reasons Grifft brought up. Plus, then we have the bonus of being compatible with both editions. 

[Kelborn]

Why not doing both?

Do we have to decide?

 

Let's continue with fluff and when the need arises, we can focus on rules.

Those, who want to work on their rules can do so.

We always had those working on rules and those writing fluff.

 

Wy change that just because of the 8th?

 

Let's move on then! :)

[simison]

Why not doing both?

Do we have to decide?

 

Well, I kinda have to. While everyone else is free to work on either crunch or fluff, I'm the one who reviews the material making it into the PDF. So, my efforts are more focused and my priorities are different based on what the project wants to focus on.

 

I would prefer to revamp our phases into...

 

Alpha Phase - Legion Fluff Chapter; Opening History Chapter

Beta Phase - Campaign Fluff

Delta Phase - Legion Rules

Omega Phase - Campaign Rules

[Kelborn]

Then go for it. :)

 

You got my support in this. :tu:

[Skalpynock]

I support this new phase organization.

[bluntblade]

Works for me

[bluntblade]

It occurs to me that one rule we could set ourselves for general battle-writing is to avoid something like the Flight of the Eisenstein opening battle, where basically four Lord Commanders (Grand Company Captain is a rank above Chapter Master) are fighting within sight of one another in a GC battle. Makes the Legion seem much smaller than it really is. I prefer the Horus Rising/Little Horus thing where the senior commanders are taking care of business on various parts of the battlefield.

[simison]

Fair point, Blunt.

 

Alright, if there are no objections, we'll switch to that format.

[RikuEru]

Fair point, Blunt.

 

Alright, if there are no objections, we'll switch to that format.

No objection here! I'm just a bystander anyway... just an idea:

 

If someone feels reeeaaally bored, he can collect current stat profiles and points costs for all units and their upgrades that are done by now in Excel.

(Because your special rules probably only get re-phrased a little later on, with all weapon choices staying the same)

 

Post them, let everyone look over them to see if the current (7th Ed. related) status-quo is correctly represented.

 

Once 8. Edition is out and FW has caught up, you can easily go through the sheets and add Movement Values and adjust stats & points costs looking at the FW 30k rules profiles.

 

If someone feels like he wants to put that burden and math torture onto his back...

[Grifftofer]

Well I've sort of been pulling the rules together as I can over the last few months into a single document, but I've only been able to update it periodically and there are gaps (either from me missing things or from the rule not being written yet). So with some luck we'll have what is finished ready to conversion when 8th hits the 30K universe.

 

I'll try and find a chance to update it all in the next week so I can put it up for people to look at and tell me what's wrong :)

[bluntblade]

Decided to start typing about the Insurgos. Needless to say, there's a lot to add, pending Sim, Skal, Squig and Demus' ideas on where to take their Legions' respective turncoats.

 

In the Insurrection, the gene-seed of the space marines became more important than ever, and one important consequence of the Day of Revelation was the bounty taken by the traitors. Some was taken with little fanfare, as the Drowned harvested that of fallen Scions on Terra for their own use. That of slain Iron Bears, Wardens of Light, Predators and Crimson Lions was gifted to Kozja and the Jade General for study.

 

With the Halcyon Wardens, Dune Serpents, Fire Keepers and Void Eagles, however things were different. Parts of each Legion, though they varied in size and cohesiveness, had broken away and declared for the Stormborn. All had undoubtable military value, but the renegades from the IV, V and X also offered political advantage. Insurrectionist propaganda hailed them as heroes, driven to rebellion by their consciences, and each force was granted tithes and a fief world. These efforts at expansion were bolstered by Kelbor-Hal who, in fleeing Mars, brought with him all the gene-seed supplies his forces had been able to acquire.

 

The Morning Stars were by some way the largest, and their previous conduct unimpeachable. As such they benefited most, taking the ___ as their fief. The Halcyon Wardens who had turned their cloaks at the bidding of Malis, now dubbed the ___, gained ___. Both worlds were deep within Imperium Nova, blessed with large populations, strong martial traditions and close proximity to major Forge Worlds.

[Talonair]

Well I've sort of been pulling the rules together as I can over the last few months into a single document, but I've only been able to update it periodically and there are gaps (either from me missing things or from the rule not being written yet). So with some luck we'll have what is finished ready to conversion when 8th hits the 30K universe.

 

I'll try and find a chance to update it all in the next week so I can put it up for people to look at and tell me what's wrong

Just as a heads up for your efforts, the rules for Mortera are going to be changed and the Myrmidon Custos are more than likely going to get another wargear option (a replacement for the axes, something to deal with larger units but lacking AP2).

 

Also r/e rules what Dark Mechanicum units do we have currently?

[simison]

None that I'm aware of.

 

You know, it occurs to me that we've shifted the 'dreaded' a bit in our 40k. I'm sure most of us have heard the phrase, at one point or another, "Beware the alien, the heretic, and the mutant." And one could easily add 'the witch' to that line. *glances at Black Templar*

 

But in BotL, the phrase is technically true but the alien and witch takes on more nuance with Il-Kaithe and the Kinebrach joinin for the former. In the latter, the lack of Nikaea reduces the strength of the warning. All the while, the heretic remains as dangerous in canon as in BotL.

 

It is the mutant takes on special meaning and strength in BotL, thanks to the Prosecution. As if that wasn't enough, the Genesis Legion and the False Primarch hammer in that warning. 

 

I wonder if perhaps this results in abhumans being viewed with more suspicion and distrust in BotL 40k compared to canon.

[Raktra]

Could do a Tau and mass sterilise and/or lobotomise them. Just keep enough around to breed more if our Imperium needs them.

[MikhalLeNoir]

I am for a total Tauozid^^

[Skalpynock]

Frenzon exists for a reason...

[Chief Captain Redd]

It could be an interesting division to build upon later, since the prosecutor of Vizenko himself, Daer'dd; built such strong ties to Abhumans in the Demiurg(Squats) and Ogryns, and they have such strong communities in the Three Fires.