General Discussion Secundus

[bluntblade]

They're roles as well as titles. Actuall, scratch the lord commander bit. A First Captain is always an individual.

[simison]

They're roles as well as titles. Actuall, scratch the lord commander bit. A First Captain is always an individual.

 

So, we're now just capitalizing unique Legion titles? 

[bluntblade]

That's my suggestion. Or we just check how BL does it and go by that.

[simison]

That's my suggestion. Or we just check how BL does it and go by that.

 

I know I have two HH novels. I'll check them later.

 

Since we already know that I've been screwing up the Oxford commas, there will be a final editing run that will standardize the commas and the titles.

[bluntblade]

Mentions of techmarines may be tricky - Path of Heaven will tell though. As for praevians I fear I might be stumped.

[Slips]

So I heard y'all liked merch? http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/338116-merch-merch-merch/ Maybe?

[simison]

If I had money, I'd be tempted. Though, if I had that kind of income, I'd rather just send it directly to keep B&C running.

[simison]

If anyone was curious, yes. It is, in fact, possible to crash a B&C PM if you put in enough text.

[simison]

So, rivalries, they've been on my mind for a few days now. Actions and choices can and will reverberate for thousands of years in this setting. They range from hatred (IH and the EC) to the friendly (SW and DA) to the petty (WS and RG). 

 

What rivalries have the various Legions of BotL inflicted upon one another? 

 

I'll start. 

 

Halcyon Wardens & The Harbingers [Level: Personal Hatred] - What was once one of the strongest bonds between Legions has been irrevocably ripped. Only the Hammers of Malis enjoy any kind of positive relationship at the cost of becoming pariahs to the Wardens. This antagonism only increases as the millennia carry on with the Wardens solidifying their role as the Defenders of Terra, while the Harbingers become the eternal enemy with their Black Crusades.

 

Halcyon Wardens & Eagle Warriors [Level: Professional Hatred] - Chaos is the key driver of this rivalry. As the Eagle Warriors become the undisputed champions of Chaos Undivided led by Travier, the Halcyon Wardens develop an undying hatred for their corruption that is only incensed as the Halcyon Wardens embrace the Imperial Cult. It is a hatred of two diametrically opposed religions can have for one another.

 

Halcyon Wardens & Dune Serpents [Level: Petty] - While the threat of the Insurrection smoothed over differences in philosophies of war, post-Insurrection, this rivalry slowly develops as the Wardens become disgusted with the Serpents' use of chemical warfare and all-too-willing to target civilian targets. Likewise, the Serpents believe the Wardens are too naive. 

 

Halcyon Wardens & Crimson Lions [Level: Friendly] - Established when they were Storm Riders and Blood Wolves, an on-going competition went on for years between the two Legions, growing bitter until a fateful duel between their respective Masters. Since then, it has been transformed into a kind of brawling, bloody-grinned rivalry that has lasted into their new forms. 

 

[Out of time, will think more of it when I get back.]

[MikhalLeNoir]

Wardens of Light vs Eagle Warriors ( it is getting personal here): Before the day of revelation they had one of the strongest bonds between legions and a mutual understanding between the 2 britgers, the day of revelation changed everything. The Eagle Warriors backstabbed their brothers, sacrificed the whole 11th expedition fleet, tortured their primarch and laughed at the good will of the wardens. When they finally joined the ranks of the loyalists, the wardens lost all sense of mercy and became an even fiercer force when they met the Eagle Warriors on the battlefield. After Terra even Gwalchavad had to admit that his legion has been lost to the bloodshed and that his dream died on the day of revelation. Shortly afterwards the Wardens of Light were disbanded.and their primarch left on a quest to cure the Emperor

 

Wardens of Light - Successors vs Crimson Lions( friendly rivalry): Before Terra there was no friendship between the legion, not even respect. While the.Crimson Lions thought the Wardens were petty weaklings chosing always the peaceful path, the Wardens despised the wild rage.with.which the.Crimson Lions fell upon their enemies. Their Battlelust disgust.the Wardens. But you find your true friends on the battlefield.and this.counted.also for the Crimson Lions and the Wardens of Light. Fighting on the Walls of Terra togheter and coordinating most.of the defenses.around the Ultima Gate, the joint forces of the 2 legions drove the enemy away and togheter their primarchs were able to banish the servant of khorne, their former brother Raktra. Afterwards both legions saw the other.with different eyes and they came to a deep understaniding for each other.

 

 

Wardens of Light vs Halcyon Wardens ( friendly rivary): always fought for the title of true wardens, however after the Wardens of light were.disbanded as.legion after.the.siege.of terra, the point goes to the sons of Alexandros. But you never know wha the future holds for you

Edited August 23, 2017 by MikhalLeNoir

[Demus Ragnok]

Fire Keepers and Bezerkers of Uran [Level:Hulk Smash] Punching of faces and faces being punched. Stabbing fire death buuuuuuurn.

 

Fire Keepers and Iron Bears [Level:Bro fist] Hey bear guy check this new flamer I built. It's master crafted. (Fires plume of flames 1000 feet)

Yo fire guy check these new claws I made. They're Legen-dary.(slashes tree to bits)

Hey bear guy wanna go break stuff.

Yeeeeesssss!

[bluntblade]

Scions, Warbringers and WoP.

 

Say, with Kelbor-Hal diminished after Mars, which Insurrectionist Forge Worlds would keep their fealty to him, and who's going on manoeuvres, politically speaking?

 

Canon candidates off the top of my head: Xana and Cyclorathe (Draykavac's shadowy masters)

Edited August 24, 2017 by bluntblade

[simison]

Last one.

 

Halcyon Wardens - Warbringers [Petty]: Although there was a professional dislike between the two before the Insurrection over tactics, it is only with the creation of the Suzerainty that it escalates into an outright rivalry. Both Legions strive to be the paragons of their respective empires and often try to prove the superiority of their faction to the other. 

 

To Mikhal, you know it occurs to me, there'd be an easy, fun scene where an Army sergeant is stuck on deployment with his squad assisting both Legions and grousing over their similar names. 

 

To Blunt, is that a rivalry of scientists? As to your actual question, I imagine Xana (with Scoria still locked away) still supports Hal. AO says the Cognis will respect his authority, though I'm pressing him on motivation so we'll see there. Any other Forge Worlds you have in mind, Blunt?

 

EDIT: Magos Xander Travier (adopted brother to the other one) is this kind of brilliant genius who prefers doing his personal projects but is willing to toe the line...so long as he isn't bothered to do too much. So, whether or not Magos Travier and his Forge World Xandria depends entirely on how much Hal shows respect and a deft touch toward Xander.

Edited August 24, 2017 by simison

[bluntblade]

More religious backstabbing and politicking. Differences in doctrine (which is both scientific and religious). Insurrectionist sects may see an opportunity to rise by offering their aid to Kelbor-Hal, or a chance to undermine and ultimately supplant him. Xana always tested the authority of Mars according to Retribution, hence their inclusion here.

[Demus Ragnok]

So I posted this in the HH section and got nada so here are some fluff questions about Talons of the Emperor.

 

First. The Ordo Sinister deployed at Prospero. Do Psy Titans have an advantage against psykers that other Titans do not?

 

Second. The Sisters of Silence command organization. I'm building background detail for a force of about five hundred. How does the cadre rule work at scale.

Would a Knight Centuria in command and then Extruciatus Cadres at a one per three combat unit ratio be correct.

 

I don't have the book and I have mined all I can from the wiki and such.

 

Thanks.

[simison]

I'm not sure if the weaponry is an advantage against psykers per se, but the psy-titans are actually piloted by pariahs. So, they have a natural defense against psyker attacks that normal titans wouldn't.

 

Starting from the top, the Knight-Commander is the head. Then you have the Mistress of the Black Ships and the Nemesis Praxia, who oversaw training. The Sisters typically deploy as a Company-Cadre led by a single officer. As you suggested, this is typically the Oblivion Knight-Centura, though a Silent Judge can also fulfill the role. So, that should cover the basics of your command questions.

 

As to a detachment, this gets a little interesting because they typically deploy in small forces for very specific purposes. At 500 Sisters, you have an unusually large force but not beyond the bounds of fluff. The one HQ-to-three combat units ratio comes straight from the Company-Cadre rule but not the fluff itself which just suggests that they're a small, elite organization. As such, it's not a hard rule but fits well enough for your purposes. 

 

So, all that's to say that you're on target. 

[bluntblade]

Of our own Forge Worlds who rebel, Lasaris strike me as one faction that'd support Kelbor-Hal for more concessions, at least early on. I'm not sure who supplies the Godslayers, Berserkers, Drowned or future Suzerains though, and all those could be important.

[Talonair]

Generally speaking, further-flung Forge Worlds, especially those far away from Loyalist power bases, would be more unorthadox due to distance from Mars. Those close to warp phenomena and ancient alien technology would also be more tempted to stray due to the promise of discovery these would present

[simison]

Generally speaking, further-flung Forge Worlds, especially those far away from Loyalist power bases, would be more unorthadox due to distance from Mars. Those close to warp phenomena and ancient alien technology would also be more tempted to stray due to the promise of discovery these would present

 

Can you think of any specific ones that would apply?

 

So far, Xandria and Lasaris are willing to support Hal after his Martian defeat, if only temporarily. Xana is subtly trying to overthrow him. Whatever happened to the Forge World attached to the Thousand Sons?

[Talonair]

 

Whatever happened to the Forge World attached to the Thousand Sons?

 

 

From Lexicanum:

 

 

During the Horus Heresy, Zhao-Arkkad was pledged to the Thousand Sons and fought alongside them in the Burning of Prospero. They were declared heretics by the Imperium for the act, but no retaliation could come due to the Isstvan incidents. Some Forges on Zhao-Arkkad allied with the traitorous Warmaster, while others simply wished to be left alone by the galaxy at large.^[3]

During the Great Scouring Zhao-Arkkad was again returned to the Imperium's fold.

[Talonair]

With regards to traitor forge worlds, list incoming:

 

Anvilus Nine: Notable for vast production of Land Raiders. Captured by Dark Mechanicum during the Heresy, stopping the supply of Land Raiders to the Loyalists

 

Crucible-Omega: Founded during the Age of Strife, believed to have never been incorporated into the Imperium. Came to worship an STC system that gained a level of sentience, eventually fell in with the Ruinous Powers

 

Cyclothrathe: Forge World of the traitor Archmagos Draykavac. Sided with Horus

 

Retlaxi: Secondary home world of Legio Mortis. Unknown if traitor, possibly Heretek controlled

 

This is just after a cursory sweep, mind, and there's ultimately nothing preventing us from creating new Forge Worlds

[bluntblade]

Looking at the timeline, I'm thinking a lot of the Knights Errant I'd set up won't have much reason to become that with the longer duration. Particularly Odyssalas, who's looking at a tortuous route back to his Legion, but perhaps also the Shepherds. Really depends how many survive Aureus and when the stalemate occurs.

[simison]

Thanks for the list, Talonair. Do you think you could find general locations as well? And I am aware that we could just invent new Forge Worlds. I'm actually playing around with an idea on how to deal with that possibility.

 

Can Knight Errants retire? Or does Malcador not reach them in time?

[bluntblade]

They might find other things to keep them busy. 

[Talonair]

Thanks for the list, Talonair. Do you think you could find general locations as well? And I am aware that we could just invent new Forge Worlds. I'm actually playing around with an idea on how to deal with that possibility.

 

Anvilus Nine is unknown

 

Crucible-Omega is somewhere in the Segmentum Solar

 

Cyclothrathe is in the Coronid Deeps sector of the Segmentum Obscurus

 

Retlaxi is unknown