8th Edition Rumours

[Lord Abaia]

So going off of the loyalist weapon prices listed in the BA leaks combined with the CSM leaks Raptors are 17ppm (17 base + bolt pistol 0pts + chainsword 0pts) and Warp Talons are 28ppm (15 base + pair of lightning claws 13pts). Combined with no more Champion tax a min sized Raptor squad dropped 10 points before upgrades, and Warp Talons dropped 20 points. That is assuming Warp Talons don't get some super-special rules for their claws, but who am I kidding only wolves get that kind of attention.

 

Lightning claws are S:user AP:-2 D:1 with rerolls to wound and +1 attack for being a pair. They are much cheaper now 9pts single 13pts paired. Combined with accurate deepstrike and warptime we might see some nasty turn 1 assaults. I guess I may build that jump sorcerer after all.

[Sception]

Hrm.  Lightning claws aren't quite as good as I'd hoped, but they're cheaper than I expected, and a lot more versatile than they used to be.  Maybe I'll have to throw together that warptalon squad I've still got on the sprues after using the raptor arms and heads in my chosen conversions.

[Lord Abaia]

Yeah I was hoping for either AP:-3 or D: D3, but a single claw feels about in line with a power axe, a little better in most cases actually. And the paired bonus is nice, since other power weapons won't get that anymore. I'm really hoping for a nice special rule on the Warp Talon datasheet to help them out though. Closer than 9" deepstrike or a (better) replacement for blind are where my mind keeps wandering. I guess I'll just have to wait a little longer.

[1000 Sons]

Interested to see what happens with chosen. Will they finally be the super elite guys we always wanted ? Hopefully the forge world book gets leaked soon.

[Sception]

There really look to be minimal changes for most things (oblits sadly excepted).  I expect chosen to look very much the same as they currently do.  That said, even without other changes, they're already a bit cheaper (16 points each instead of 18, while basic CSMs stay at 13 points per model), and melee builds in particular are likely to be a lot more attractive, given that power weapons on the squad are now more than 10 points cheaper, and delivery is a bit easier than before, since the transport changes mean the venerable rhino is potentially a functional assault vector.

 

Unless we see major changes to their stats, gear, or rules (which, again, probably shouldn't be expected), they'll be a very 'glass hammer' sort of squad, but 10 with 5 power weapons will clock in at 200 points, more than 50 points cheaper than the same squad would have been under the previous codex.

 

At the same time, terminators are getting more expensive, 37 points for the standard combi bolter & power sword kit, up to 70 points for a chaos terminator with a power fist and combi melta, so the comparison between chosen and terminators won't be nearly so lop-sided in the latter's favor.

 

On the other hand, Khorne berserkers are also only 16 points per model (before their khornate axes, which might cost extra), and have that sweet double attack rule, so it's possible melee chosen still won't be able to carve a niche for themselves, but zerkers probably can't mix in some meltaguns, and probably can't carry as many power weapons, so...  *shrug*.

 

..................

 

Ok, so guesswork at a 1000 point list:

 

1 Winged prince (just gonna assume this one works fine as is)

10 Chosen w/ 3x meltagun, 2x power axe, 1x power sword

10 CSMs, 2x plasmagun, 1x power sword;

1 Rhino w/ combi bolter

10 CSMs, ditto

1 Rhino w/ combi bolter

 

leaves 145 points to cover a dreadclaw for the chosen and maybe havok launchers for the rhinos, depending.

 

 

Not a *good* list, mind, just seeing what my mostly painted stuff comes out to, and it looks remarkably close to an even 1k points, though a lot rides on whether a naked winged prince works on its own, and just how much the dreadclaw comes out to.

[ChazSexington]

I'm a bit surprised most characters look like they'll clock in at more than many of the Special Characters.

[Plaguecaster]

I just hope Chosen, bikers and Havocs can still be taken in a deathguard force as those leaks seem to be missing a bit as I can't even see Plague marines since most of it looks to be missing

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Lightning claws are S:user AP:-2 D:1 with rerolls to wound and +1 attack for being a pair. They are much cheaper now 9pts single 13pts paired. Combined with accurate deepstrike and warptime we might see some nasty turn 1 assaults. I guess I may build that jump sorcerer after all. 

 

 

Well if lightning claws are to be add on a warptalon cost, they aren't mandatory anymore. 

 

So you could take a Warptalon with a cheaper option, axe and pistol maybee ? Try to get that 1rst or 2nd turn charge (or just jump from cover to cover as it seems you can't crush your unit from jumping on a difficult terrain it seems).

 

But I really want to know what will be the special rules for deepstricking Talon, as their isn't initiative anymore (maybee something more effective thant the V7 version). 

 

And i want to emphase on a point : Now you can proudly mix Chaos Space Marine and Chaos Daemon in a single Detachment (using the faction Keyword Chaos or Slaanesh/Nurgle/Khorn/Tzeencht). 

I really wanna know what will be the buff a Daemon charac add to nearby units. It will be restricted to "Daemon" unit of course. Warp talon are daemon unit (Obliterators still are). 

 

So maybee this is it, the true difference between Raptor and Warp Talon : Warp Talon can pick up some nasty combo with a Flying or Deepstriking Daemonic charac buffing them with Daemono-warping power of the Dark glorious Gods

[Kierdale]

Do you think fistyclaw biker lords will still be useful?

I don't feel like pulling arms off models! :D

[Raven1]

Do you think fistyclaw biker lords will still be useful?

I don't feel like pulling arms off models! :D

No, not really we are looking at a brand new game a complete shift in the meta. You aren't gaining an extra attack anymore, unwieldy is no longer the same either. Plus pistols can be used in close combat in your shooting phase. You will probably want a pistol and your special weapon... well I dont think we've seen enough of the new rules to know which weapon is optimal for the points or the specific threat you need dead.

[WarriorFish]

The fist for when something has to die and the claw for when you want to hit better? A single claw isn't that expensive fortunately, but as a complement for a fist I think the -1 to hit isn't such a big deal for a Lord

I think I'm starting to get a hang of where things are going now. Vehicles are expensive, but more capable for it so with the relative low costs of infantry means we have options to instead focus on infantry - where we will have a lot! For example the cost of a Predator should be the same as a fully loaded out squad right? Land Raiders more like two squads... I'm feeling optimistic for infantry heavy lists

[Fangbanger]

If the noise marine rumours turn out to be true, they are looking pretty badass...!

[Midnightmare]

All exciting stuff - and I think once the codex comes out we we see more Legion specific things.

 

For me, my planned core at the moment is Abaddon, two squads of Terminators landing first turn Black Legion style spear tip with a Sorcerer and the Warp Speed power. One squad of Termies toting combi-plasma and likely unmarked the other my FW Khorne Termies toting combi-melta and an icon or wrath. Should be able to smoke a lot, charge a lot and all benefit from Abaddons to hit and Morale bubbles.

 

All backed up by my usual mix of bikes, CSM in Rhinos, Cultists and FW Hades Rapiers and Sicaran :)

 

Obviously I have not pointed it up, but you get the gist - "DIE LAPDOGS OF THE CORPSE EMPEROR, WE ARE RETURNED!!!!" Ahem.

[Beachymike123]

I'm interested to see how Daemon Princes will function and play out. I got a Dreadknight I'm going to convert into a DP but I'll hold off until I see options.

Interesting stuff going through to 8th. Just a waiting game now I guess.

[Midnightmare]

Hopefully flying about, charging and face wrecking with no standing about getting shot :D

[WarriorFish]

I hope so, still got plans to get one to tie in my CSM and Daemon forces...

[hopkins]

Do you think fistyclaw biker lords will still be useful?

I don't feel like pulling arms off models!

ha. i have one on foot too

[Panzer]

So uhm...sorry to ruin you TSons players day I guess.

http://i.imgur.com/PTsoCze.jpg

[Archaeinox]

Them's the breaks

[Dallas Drake]

Surely there is a chance that Thousand Sons could get a special rule allowing them to bypass this limitation?

[Panzer]

Surely there is a chance that Thousand Sons could get a special rule allowing them to bypass this limitation?

You realize that TSons are most likely one of the reasons why such a limitation exists in the first place, right?

[Morovir]

Well, they can all still use Smite...

[Sception]

everything can smite, and smite isn't a bad power.  Plus they'll have a handful of disciplines to choose from.  You won't be able to spam your best spells, but I think it will be a pretty big game before you run out of spells to cast, even for 1k sons.

[DominikB]

everything can smite, and smite isn't a bad power. Plus they'll have a handful of disciplines to choose from. You won't be able to spam your best spells, but I think it will be a pretty big game before you run out of spells to cast, even for 1k sons.

I'd say the expectation is that there will be more than one best spell tbh :) and I truly hope so

[Dallas Drake]

everything can smite, and smite isn't a bad power. Plus they'll have a handful of disciplines to choose from. You won't be able to spam your best spells, but I think it will be a pretty big game before you run out of spells to cast, even for 1k sons.

I'd say the expectation is that there will be more than one best spell tbh and I truly hope so

If they have multiple disciplines to pick spells from then that's fine. I don't know why, I just assumed they wouldn't & would just have a 3 spell tree like we've seen.