The Primaris Space Marines and the Space Wolves

[Filius]

But does it mean that those primaris marine have no scout stage? They are fully-fledged Astartes? Not like in case "normal" Astartes? In our case - new recruit is fully-fledged Astartes and Scouts are very experienced Astartes. Does it mean that this is derrogation from Codex? Yes, it would mean that one day GW will release new scouts. But it seem to be derrogation or exception because when primaris marine have arisen do they have enough time to be firstly scouts and then fully-fledged Astartes? Just thinking.

 

I wouldn't exclude the Option, that Roboute Guilliman just rewirtes the Codex. He made new Marines, why not make a new Edition of his own book to fit the new Marines? Acutally I would say it's highly likely that he publishes a Codex Astartes 8.0 2.0. Not only because of the Primaris Marines, but also because things changed … Tyrandis, Tau and Necron weren't even there, when he fell asleep. And everyone of them is a Foe unlike any other the Ultramarines have ever met. I mean … they nearly wiped out Ultramar (and nearly omnomnomed the Frozen Roboute, actually  … does anyone know what happend to him during the Tyranid Attack on Ultramar? Did the just let him ist there ins his Fridge?) …anyway:  that alone seems to me a proof that something in the Codex Astartes is not as perfect as the Calgar always wanted us and the whole Imperium to believe.

[mactire]

I think people should realise that this will inevitably see the end of SM's at some stage, I'm not being a doomsayer when I say this, it's just that the comparisons with AoS are too obvious to ignore. We have 5 man units and 3 man specialist units with larger hero units on the good guys side with, now it appears, bigger evil units as well. The gameplay itself is changing and I'm guessing all futher novels will feature the Primaris Marines with a few token Astates thrown in. My gut feeling is that in time we may see Chapter specific models released, but for now all we will get is upgrade kits like the Stormcast Eternals to represent the different Houses, or what ever they are called. This will be similar to the old GH, BC and LF sets which were marines with a Space Wolf sprue included. As a model company I can see why GW are going this route, it makes sense financially as players will inevitably begin to field new armies made entirely from the new range, whereas even if they released a new armour mark, due to the huge marine collections people already have, the purchases would probably be less. I know that I would struggle to justify getting more marines due to the amount of unpainted and unassembled minis I already have, regardless of the price or value they might be.

 

Personally I won't be buying any of these new releases, as I paint and collect way more than I game. I'm about 1/2 to 2/3 through my 2 Great Companies project and would find the size difference too ridiculous to contemplate adding any of the NuMarines to them. However, I do think that if I intend gaming again I would probably look at building a small force of the Primaris to be viable on the table but these would be a standalone collection from my GC's, and I think this is what GW are aiming for. People may continue to build their old collections, to finish off whatever vision they had in their head, but you will see more and more Primaris armies on the tabletop. I think it's a pity as I dont believe these new carbon copy forces will have the character or some of the fantastic armies that are around at the moment, but thats the way of the world. 

[Guest]

I just remembered that if primaris do take over then my favorite model and my Wolf Lords model, Gregor, would be obsolete. I wonder how hard ot would be to convert a model, or how much it would cost.

[Wintermane]

I see these new marines as an end to the old lines as well. And I too will most likely finish up my collection and start painting miniatures from another company that more fit my tastes. The thing that makes me sad is that this is obviously a ploy by GW to put their foot on the throats of companies that make bits and conversion pieces for marines by scaling the models up so they are no longer compatible with other companies bits.  Instead of being flattered that their game is so beloved that other people create companies to enhance the community of 40K, all they saw was that someone else was making a dollar or two.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Wintermane

[Guest]

I dont see them as trying to stop another company from making money but rather trying to juggle 2 types of people. Those who were demanding true scale marines for awhile, and those who were demanding they not change anything because they think their models would be obsolete. If they did one thing it would upset the other. They attempted to perform a half step with Primaris, its not going to be a easy for GW to appease both. Those demanding true scale have to realize that GW cant just replace all of their lines right away and will yake time. Those demanding everything stay the same have to realize for GW to survive they must change, and to make thay change the old must leave.

 

There is a third group that sits in the middle and says "i want true scale, but I have X concern ( x being: favorite models going away, chapter being not updated, fear GW will not do a good job)". This will be what I think is the majority of people sit, but are quiet as they are waiting to see how GW does before rioting or cheering.

[Grimtooth]

So I asked the Warhammer 40k Facebook page for some details on upgrading for chapters like SW and BA and they just pointed me to the FAQ that says Primaris will be able to be included in all chapters.

 

My main concerns are that the upgrade they are talking about is just what they have explained so far; that the Primaris data sheet has a spot for keyword Faction <insert chapter> which basically gives you permission to paint your Intercessor, Hellblasters, etc, etc Fenris Grey and call them Space Wolves. However this doesn't mean that they will have whatever special rules that SW get in 8th like counter attack or acute senses if they exist in some new form or another.

 

So instead of what I hoped for;

 

Primaris Light Wolf Lord

 

Primaris Light GH pack

Primaris Light GH pack

 

But instead it look a like it will be;

 

Wolf Lord

Primaris Captain painted grey

 

GH pack

Intercessor Squad painted grey

 

Yea, not very happy with this direction unless we get some new Faction Focus on SW or even SM in general.

[Ragnarr]

So I asked the Warhammer 40k Facebook page for some details on upgrading for chapters like SW and BA and they just pointed me to the FAQ that says Primaris will be able to be included in all chapters.

 

My main concerns are that the upgrade they are talking about is just what they have explained so far; that the Primaris data sheet has a spot for keyword Faction <insert chapter> which basically gives you permission to paint your Intercessor, Hellblasters, etc, etc Fenris Grey and call them Space Wolves. However this doesn't mean that they will have whatever special rules that SW get in 8th like counter attack or acute senses if they exist in some new form or another.

 

So instead of what I hoped for;

 

Primaris Light Wolf Lord

 

Primaris Light GH pack

Primaris Light GH pack

 

But instead it look a like it will be;

 

Wolf Lord

Primaris Captain painted grey

 

GH pack

Intercessor Squad painted grey

 

Yea, not very happy with this direction unless we get some new Faction Focus on SW or even SM in general.

 

My plan for now is the same. Maybe small conversion of hellblasters - instead of plasma helfrost :). But firstly I want to see them in shop.

[Valerian]

So I asked the Warhammer 40k Facebook page for some details on upgrading for chapters like SW and BA and they just pointed me to the FAQ that says Primaris will be able to be included in all chapters.

 

My main concerns are that the upgrade they are talking about is just what they have explained so far; that the Primaris data sheet has a spot for keyword Faction <insert chapter> which basically gives you permission to paint your Intercessor, Hellblasters, etc, etc Fenris Grey and call them Space Wolves. However this doesn't mean that they will have whatever special rules that SW get in 8th like counter attack or acute senses if they exist in some new form or another.

 

So instead of what I hoped for;

 

Primaris Light Wolf Lord

 

Primaris Light GH pack

Primaris Light GH pack

 

But instead it look a like it will be;

 

Wolf Lord

Primaris Captain painted grey

 

GH pack

Intercessor Squad painted grey

 

Yea, not very happy with this direction unless we get some new Faction Focus on SW or even SM in general.

 

While I agree with your conclusion, I think the Primaris units will get the Space Wolves army-wide special rules (whatever those end up looking like), because they'll be given keyword Faction Space Wolves, just like your Grey Hunters, Wolf Lord, and everybody else.  Otherwise, yes, they'll still be Intercessors and Hellblasters, and not Grey Hunters with Primaris stats.

 

V

[Grimtooth]

One thing that I just notice is that the Primaris fly boys have the same armor as the Gravis Captain. This makes it wonder if those jet packs are then options for the captain as well as makes me wonder that if Gravis is the new artificer armor, those fly boys are packing a 2+ with 2 wounds and twin mini heavy bolters!!

 

Ouch!!

[Valerian]

One rumor going around (Ishagu original source) is that the Gravis doesn't give a 2+ Save, but instead increases Toughness.  Still pretty nice either way.

[Grimtooth]

Oh yea, nice either way.

 

i am on the edge of just leaving the Wolves pure and just going with a Primaris Chapter of my own fluff or if GW releases some unique Primaris chapters, see if any make me go hmmm

[Guest Triszin]

stormwolf with 12 sky claws and 3 inceptors?

[Grimtooth]

If they are oribtial drop troops like has been rumored, than go with 14 BC and a Wolf Priest in the transport and the after disembark precision drop the Inceptors for covering fire.

[Filius]

I am convinced that GW hasn't decided which way to go yet. The Primaris Marines are a middle way …

 

• As Caldersson said, they are an answer to the requests for true Scale Marines
• They are bigger, easier to paint and you need to field of them, which makes them the optimal Starter Minis / Units
• Everything we know about the fluff by is so build that they still can phase out the old scale Astartes or just use them as an extension of the Space Marine Spectrum.

… aaand it is of course the enterprise way to do such a thing: Throw things against a wall and see what sticks. They obviously don't know, what direction of development will be the most successful for 40k. The Success of Warmachine and Hordes proved this. And GW is still under pressure from other Games. And listening to "the Community" is a difficult thing to do: The loudest are not always those that represent the most players, or even people that don't play the game yet. So … deciding to come up with a easier set of Rules aaand some newish Marines, that can be developed in several directions is the most reasonable thing to do. And then take your time to look at the Feedback and at the Sales … I would do it that way, if I were a Project-Manager there … and didn't care fpor 40k … okay, I wouldn't do it that way, but I worked with enough "professionals", that would act this way, if this were their job.

 

The "problem" I have with this: I still have 120 unbuild Space Marines lying around for roughly 1000 Euros, which I bought BECAUSE OF the interchangeability and the kit-bash-ability of the Space Marines. No other Faction and no other game (except Lego) has such an spectrum of options. And I can't help myself, but I am disapointed, that this seems to come to an end now, or to a new beginning, depends on how you see it. If I would have an already painted Army, I probably wouldn't care that much. Also, if I wouldn't have all those unbuild Marines. No one can and will make a promise that Minis and Stuff stays the same for more than 20 years, or even 5 years, or to quote one of my favourite Bands: "This ist social market economy: It never get's boring." But being exactly in the middle, right now is quite frustrating and I really thought about moving to a Xenos Faction during the last days …

 

… but on the other Hand: There's actually ony one Faction in the Game, that has the "Do you know that while you are shaving and polishing your Armour we fight …?"-Attitude. Even the highly pragmatic Orks and Tau lack the deeper truth in this quote, that pulls me back to the wolves everytime I think the grass maybe greener elsewhere. And by the way: That's one of the reasons, why I am totally fine with the new Primaris Minis: In order to be interchangeable among the Chapters, they have much fewer Amour-Decorations than those one-chapter-only Minis … every minute you spent with decorating your Armour, is a minute you didn't spend fighting …

[Guest Triszin]

GW has been quite incase they go the route of centurions, if people dislike them and the stand out to much you will see adjustments

[MaveriK]

Oh yea, nice either way.

 

i am on the edge of just leaving the Wolves pure and just going with a Primaris Chapter of my own fluff or if GW releases some unique Primaris chapters, see if any make me go hmmm

or just make a new great company full of frost giant marines

[Grimtooth]

Well GW has already said that Primaris are like the Legions of old with no dedicated assault or heavy units so will need Tactical Squads to support them. Which to me sounds idiotic because Tactica Squads are neither heavy or assault dedicated in even the least. So your unbuilt stuff still has a place, support for Primaris armies!

 

However when they annouced the possibility of upgrading existing Marines, I think many thought that we would suddenly have Primaris Grey Hunters or Primaris Wolf Guard. Sadly I personally think that was just wishful thinking.

 

There will be Primaris Space Wolves, but they will be 5 man Intercessor/Hellblaster "Packs". They will almost assuredly not have any ccw and none of the special rules that Wolves will get in the new addition either. They will just be Wolves in paint scheme only.

[Valerian]

They'll get the Wolves' special rules; I mentioned that above.  Otherwise, you're on target.

[Grimtooth]

 

Oh yea, nice either way.

 

i am on the edge of just leaving the Wolves pure and just going with a Primaris Chapter of my own fluff or if GW releases some unique Primaris chapters, see if any make me go hmmm

or just make a new great company full of frost giant marines

This is a choice, but only if we can find an actual source for ccw. If as GW says that Primaris have no assault units, then a converted Primaris SW army is going to be lacking on the ccw side. The helmets and shoulder pads crossover and pelts can be green stuffed and whatnot. But normal weapons will look tiny.

 

I mentioned the other source for ccw for converted Primaris SW army could be the oversized weapons from Wulfen. But that might get beyond pricey.

[Filius]

Snap fit just makes this too much of a Mary Sue release to me. Will have to see what is possible with individual kits.

 

I am also now less optimistic of SW being Primarisized as I wonder how GW will justify the pack mentality voluntarily breaking up into smaller units to just be like every other chapter with Primaris Marines.

 

As with all other starter sets, we haven't seen all the units. But I question if Primaris will have any assault elements at all or is that being relegated to the older Marine units/armies.

 

Thanks for the optimistic Words! I – personally – would be happy with this. Very happy. Buuut when looking at this image …

 

http://dark-and.grim.rocks/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2017/05/size-comparison.png

 

… it's hard for me to believe it. The old scale Marine is pretty much dwarfed, compared with the Gravis Captain (and I fear the Moment, I see a Terminator next to him). I'm really not all to confident, that GW won't extend the Primaris Line in Order to replace the current Backbone Infantry Units, especially as I expect the Primaris to be a economical success: Bigger Minis, fewer Minis needed to play, easier to paint – as far as I can tell from my local Meta, Age of Sigmar has proven, that this is currently a successful way to go.

 

Anyways: I picked up painting yesterday and really love my Space Wolves Colour Scheme, so I'll pretty surely will build all those to Space Wolves, and if it's only for the joy of looking at them from time to time, and coming up with Stories of their Lost Companies Adventures …

 

Thanks again!

[Valerian]

I expect we'll see Primaris assault units in the near future.  When they said no assault or heavy weapon options, they were specifically talking about within the Intercessor squad.  Here's the quote:

 

"That said, like the Legions of the Great Crusade, they don’t have options for heavy or assault weapons within the squad, so there are still situations where a Tactical Squad will be better suited – bringing lascannons, flamers or other specialist weapons with them for greater tactical flexibility.

 

Though not melee specialists, the Intercessor’s two attacks makes them pretty handy in a fight. In close combat, they can also use their bolt pistols to fire point-blank into enemy units in the shooting phase. The enemy will need dedicated assault troops or lots of bodies to overwhelm a Primaris Space Marine up close."

[Filius]

I expect we'll see Primaris assault units in the near future.  When they said no assault or heavy weapon options, they were specifically talking about within the Intercessor squad.  Here's the quote:

 

"That said, like the Legions of the Great Crusade, they don’t have options for heavy or assault weapons within the squad, so there are still situations where a Tactical Squad will be better suited – bringing lascannons, flamers or other specialist weapons with them for greater tactical flexibility.

 

Though not melee specialists, the Intercessor’s two attacks makes them pretty handy in a fight. In close combat, they can also use their bolt pistols to fire point-blank into enemy units in the shooting phase. The enemy will need dedicated assault troops or lots of bodies to overwhelm a Primaris Space Marine up close."

 

Actually that's kinda sad. It would have a very  … uhm … special charm, when the Primaris Jötunn would need to send tiny Terminators equipped for CC  into Battle before them … maybe Terminators would even be "upgraded" to Troop Choices!

[Grimtooth]

I see it now more clearly Val.

 

If that is the case and we have a Primaris assault unit with chain swords, power weapons, etc then a fully converted Primaris SW army is very possible and likely the route I will go down.

 

Gonna have to figure out what to do about TWC since the Primaris model makes them look like mini Shetland ponies now.

[Filius]

I see it now more clearly Val.

 

If that is the case and we have a Primaris assault unit with chain swords, power weapons, etc then a fully converted Primaris SW army is very possible and likely the route I will go down.

 

Gonna have to figure out what to do about TWC since the Primaris model makes them look like mini Shetland ponies now.

 

 

Buy Canis Wolfborn six times and put every one of them on Fangir a Clone of Fangir …

 

P.S.: Or GW argues that only the smallest and lightest Astartes get to ride Thunderwolves … like Jockeys in Horse Racing.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Filius

[RikuEru]

What I really want for Primaris - no matter if MkX Armor or their new TDA Armor - is a unit with Shield + CCW or Shield + Bolter

 

So basically Breachers. ...or rather Long Shield carrying hulks to march at the front. Hehehe...