Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 If you make two Hellflayers or, at a push, Seeker Chariots rather than the Exalted Chariot then yes it is. I have a 1750pt force that is three Start Collecting! boxes, three boxes of Daemonettes, three 105x70mm bases from a bitz site and a box of Seekers and it all cost less than $500 CAD. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5035359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeStinyFiSh Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 What are the opinions on Hellflayers? I ordered a Start Collecting recently to build 2 of these lawn mowers since I hope they add a little more high strength attacks to my army... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5035386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 They're good 'cause they're fast, relatively cheap and can put out 4 'Rending' S4 attacks (claws), 4 S4 attacks (tongues), d6 S4 attacks (Lash) and d6 S10 attacks (Bladed Axle), if you have a Herald nearby. Always have a Herald nearby. Potentially that's 20 attacks, six of which are S10 and four which are possibly AP-4. I bought three Start Collecting! boxes and made five Hellflayers and a Herald on a Seeker Chariot, who tends to be my Warlord and who gets The Forbidden Gem and Quicksilver Duellist. I've never regretted it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5035473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamIsCollapsing Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 You can make two hellflayers with one start collecting ? Thank you for this answer, i will make some mower too. Did GW answer on the Slaanesh herald problem ? The seeker and chariot version aren't in the codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5035590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Yep, you can. I have the .pdf build instructions if you want them. You only get one 105x75mm base, though. They're about three quid on bitz sites. You'll also have all the bitz (except bases) left over to build two foot Heralds per Start Collecting! box. You need the Index to use Heralds on Seekers or Chariots and unfortunately they only have D1 Piercing Claws, not the D2 Ravaging Claws that Codex Heralds have. I would argue that the increased mobility and being able to keep up with and therefore buff your other Seekers and Chariots outweighs this issue, but then my list has 20 Seekers and six Chariots at 1750pts, so mileage depends on list composition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5035607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamIsCollapsing Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 If i buy a start collecting box i should have the instruction no ? if not i would be pleased if you can give me that pdf. For the base this isnt a problem as i get third party base anyway. There isn't a passage in Chapter appouved who says you can play an Index entry with the codex gear ? Edit : Another question : what are the actual weakness of Slaanesh daemon ? Judging by the stat i would say they are great agains infantry but lack multiwounds weapons against vehicules/Monstruous creatures. So a great Slaanesh daemonkin would be for eg a batallion of daemon with Daemonettes, hellflayer, herald, Daemon prince and seeker with a spearhead of CSM with Slaanesh lascan havok, predator and a Chaos lord for the reroll. Am i correct ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5035627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 The box has instructions for the Exalted Chariot. Low strength and toughness are their most glaring flaws. Almost complete lack of shooting attacks. Yeah, you're basically on the money. I use R&H for ranged attacks and home objectives (a R&H Brigade can cost less than 900pts) but the theory is the same. I'd make the Daemon Prince your mandatory CSM HQ, personally, but that's mostly 'cause I'm sniffy about them not being real Daemons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5035674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 For bases I've found GW is often the best source, so always worth checking their store for the price to beat Slaanesh daemons are a bit squishy, but fast and choppy for it. Anti-tank is the other main concern hence the mentioned desire for higher strength attacks to help mitigate. Less of an issue with how 8th works perhaps, but you're still playing a numbers game even if you get S4 attacks. No shooting of note to speak of though, so I hope you like stabbing things :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5035675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchairarbiter Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Daemon Princes seem to be a good source of anti-tank and anti-flyer as well, if you give them wings. 2-3 dmg depending on what you outfit them with. Strength to back it up. And they can hide in the chaff. I'm starting to wonder if Soul Grinders wouldn't be a bad option for us either. I know they're overpriced but with the claws they fit the theme and they can advace/charge with our characters around them? That's 8"+D6"+2D6" for 10 strength 8+ attacks with the claws. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5036964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Personally, and it is just personally, I don't see the point of taking a melee faction and spending points on something designed and priced, even partly, on shooting. I just lean into it and field an incredibly fast, choppy, fragile army. It works for me and games don't take long because the only non-psychic ranged attacks I have are six Lashes and their 6" range and because Daemonettes die if you look at them funny. I forget the exact price of a Soul Grinder but IIRC you could comfortably take two Hellflayers instead and IMO you probably should because the numbers I posted above are wrong and if you have a Herald nearby you actually get (potentially, if you give them a Lash) D6 S4 A with the Lash, 4 S4 A with the Tongues, D6 S10 A with the Axle and 4 S5 (not S4) 'Rending' A with Piercing Claws from each one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5037113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamIsCollapsing Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Where does the S10 come from ? It's S9 no ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5037146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 No. S+1, x2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5037155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Yeah in 8th it works differently than it used to in 7th. Now you add to the base stat and then multiply that instead of multiplying the base stat and then adding to it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5037179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Or, you know, if you're facing a horde you can make all your non-Axle, non-Tongue attacks with the Lash and laugh as 5D6 Conscripts get their heads taken clean off before they get a chance to swing at you. And then of course you get D6 Axle A and four Tongue A. Potentially forty dead GEQ. Per phase. For under a hundred points. I'm a big fan of Hellflayers, is that coming across? Haha. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5037190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mileposter Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Yeah in 8th it works differently than it used to in 7th. Now you add to the base stat and then multiply that instead of multiplying the base stat and then adding to it. Minor correction and expansion on this - it's actually still that you add bonuses after the multiplication. The difference is in 8th you are required to figure the base stat bonuses before figuring attack bonuses. So, if a bonus gives an attack the +1 and the weapon was x2 then it would have been S9. Essentially, the best way is to follow the following order: Model Strength -> Model Strength Bonuses -> Weapon Strength -> Attack Strength Bonuses. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5037271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Fair point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5037641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sume Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I am trying to find the answer to this. Can I take a herald of Slaanesh on a steed or seeker chariot, and still use the loci of swiftness if my army is battleforged? or would I need to take them in say like an auxiliary slot? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5037733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Yes. All Characters gets the Locus if every unit in the detachment is Slaanesh. Even Zarakynel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5037947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sume Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Cool. I was not sure the answer to that one. I am trying to decide what to take to a random 800 point doubles tournament. In one list I wanted to use 15 seekers but it made no sense without a herald to keep up with them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5037959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 The major downside to Index Heralds is that they have Piercing, not Ravaging, Claws, but other than that they function exactly the same way as Codex Heralds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5037969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchairarbiter Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Edit: I apologize for long, rambling, stream of conciousness ahead but I had a lot of fun this weekend gaming with my new Slaanesh army and wanted to discuss it! So I got two more games in this weekend and came away with some feelings about Slaanesh, even though I am only 3 games in. Mainly looking for how others deal with something like this... I am thinking, as Loquitur has said multiple times, to just add more hellflayers since they're so cheap. Again, I just had a ton of fun with the army. The descriptions for the psychic powers, their look, how they play. It's all very fun. I did very well against a Death Guard army that was poxwalker based. I played a second game, still had a ton of fun, but it reiterated my idea of having a single Soul Grinder in the army. It was against a Tzeentch army of mainly massed brimstones, one 30 horror unit and 1 LOC, Magnus and a couple other Tzeentch characters. It also had a flamer bomb with a herald drop in behind me. If we had continued I would likely have won by points... but basically he had killed all my big units or was going to, while I had killed all his chaff/infantry and the LOC and Magnus were alive while most of my daemonettes/etc lived. Not having my rends do anything against an army that has increased invulnerable saves made my army seem to hit a lot less hard. I had much less trouble with disgustingly resilient saves for some reason... but my Tzeentch buddy is always able to clutch saving throws. 2 main points... part of this was our mission. 1) Both our armies, because it was the resupply drop mission, kind of stood our ground in our deployment zones to see what objectives would be chosen by the D3's. Normally I would have rushed forward but he moved back since he got first turn just far enough for it to not be worth it to run forward but also not near any objectives... so I waited. However, he dropped 2 6 man flamer squads and a herald in my rear. These guys hurt! They took out a seeker chariot & both my hellflayers. I realized the mistakes I was making later on but man... flamers hurt for overwatch! 2) My main question revolves around this, as has been discussed in the thread, our lack of heavy hitters. I feel like even with the Soul Grinder hitting on 4s... I could have bombarded him for a couple turns, especially his heavy hitters like Magnus or the LOC and forced him to move toward me. I had a Keeper of Secrets (I know, not optimal, but I have the FW model and want to use it). Magnus killed the KOS in one round of combat ...though I did wound him with her! She just couldn't compete. I think that was partly my fault for giving her Soul Stealer instead of leaving her with the Wit stealer. He would have been hitting me on -2 with the mesmerizing aura. So my question is - how do you all deal with a unit like Magnus? My KOS and Daemon Prince just couldn't compete. Do you ignore that unit and kill everything else? The LOC felt very killable but Magnus was a whole other story. I just don't seem to have access to a similar unit. Still.... even with that handycap I felt my army did very well and was still a ton of fun and thematic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5040598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbianc Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 What about The forbidden gem? Did you use it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5040723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeStinyFiSh Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 How does Magnus do when charged by 20 Seekers supported by Herald for +1 and Prince for rerolls? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5040756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 How does Magnus do when charged by 20 Seekers supported by Herald for +1 and Prince for rerolls? If you really manage to make contact with 20 charging Seeker, Herald and a DP then that's: Seeker rider = 41 attacks = 31.89 hits = 10.63 wounds = 5.3 damage Seeker steed = 40 attacks = 31.11 hits = 10.38 wounds = 3.46 damage Seeker total damage = 8.76 damage (he still has 9-10 wounds left after that) DP with Talons = 7 attacks = 6.81 hits = 4.5 wounds = 4.5 damage Herald = 4 attacks = 3.89 hits = 1.3 wounds = 0.65 damage (so lets say with some luck 1 damage together with the steed). All in all that'd be ~15 damage with some luck. Not enough to kill Magnus. And that's IF you manage to charge with 20 Seeker, a DP and a Herald. And IF the Tzeentch player didn't cast any defensive powers on Magnus. Extremely unreliable and all in all a bad battle plan I'd say. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5040770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeStinyFiSh Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Thanks Pazer. I am at work and dont have the rules at hand, I just thought maybe a big unit with loads of attacks and buffs might work... but as it looks like it does not. Big units do not work. Grinders do not work. Princes do not work. KOS does not work. I would say ignore him or bog him down with 30 Daemonettes and the 4++ Stratagem, slay everything around Magnus and try to win the Objective game thanks to your numbers and speed. Forbidden Gem might help, but I assume Magnus has a pretty high Ld, so this is nothing to rely on. Maybe Zarakynel works for 666 points. But looking at the other gods I would say they have more or less the same problems when facing some high T and W LoW with good inv saves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334094-slaaneshi-daemons-in-8th/page/10/#findComment-5040800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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