The Black Legion

[HeritorA]

 

I'm dying to pick up Bkack Legion. I know I wasn't the biggest fan of Talon, but it's a very rare occasion when I don't love something of ADB's. I'm personally trying to find motivation to dive deep into BL as a project (as some of my recent batrep may show). This will hopefully come out just in time.

At the very least i'm going to enjoy Khayon, as I had a similar concept for an EC Warlord back in the day but the number of non-imperial sources on Psykers Assassins/Warriors rather then seers and backline casters is relatively limited. Likewise all my Forgotten Realms Deja Vu is bad, I get the impression i'm going to enjoy the Lord of Hosts as an antagonist in the same way I enjoyed Artemis Entreri if we see much more of him throughout the book, always a fan of long back and forths between enemies who are almost a mental and physical equal.

 

Drama by 4 actors - Abaddon, Khayon, Daravek, Sigi :)

[Loesh]

 

 

I'm dying to pick up Bkack Legion. I know I wasn't the biggest fan of Talon, but it's a very rare occasion when I don't love something of ADB's. I'm personally trying to find motivation to dive deep into BL as a project (as some of my recent batrep may show). This will hopefully come out just in time.

At the very least i'm going to enjoy Khayon, as I had a similar concept for an EC Warlord back in the day but the number of non-imperial sources on Psykers Assassins/Warriors rather then seers and backline casters is relatively limited. Likewise all my Forgotten Realms Deja Vu is bad, I get the impression i'm going to enjoy the Lord of Hosts as an antagonist in the same way I enjoyed Artemis Entreri if we see much more of him throughout the book, always a fan of long back and forths between enemies who are almost a mental and physical equal.

 

Drama by 4 actors - Abaddon, Khayon, Daravek, Sigi

 

Sigi is going to be interesting for me, I always enjoyed the Black Templars and Imperial Fists thematically but most of their special characters from the Primarch on down never 'clicked' with me in an interesting way like some of the other Legions, barring some books that were the exception to the rule.

 

Willing to see if Sigi in Black Legion will be the latter.

[HeritorA]

 

 

 

I'm dying to pick up Bkack Legion. I know I wasn't the biggest fan of Talon, but it's a very rare occasion when I don't love something of ADB's. I'm personally trying to find motivation to dive deep into BL as a project (as some of my recent batrep may show). This will hopefully come out just in time.

At the very least i'm going to enjoy Khayon, as I had a similar concept for an EC Warlord back in the day but the number of non-imperial sources on Psykers Assassins/Warriors rather then seers and backline casters is relatively limited. Likewise all my Forgotten Realms Deja Vu is bad, I get the impression i'm going to enjoy the Lord of Hosts as an antagonist in the same way I enjoyed Artemis Entreri if we see much more of him throughout the book, always a fan of long back and forths between enemies who are almost a mental and physical equal.

 

Drama by 4 actors - Abaddon, Khayon, Daravek, Sigi

 

Sigi is going to be interesting for me, I always enjoyed the Black Templars and Imperial Fists thematically but most of their special characters from the Primarch on down never 'clicked' with me in an interesting way like some of the other Legions, barring some books that were the exception to the rule.

 

Willing to see if Sigi in Black Legion will be the latter.

 

Haha, indeed. With the overabuse of Primarchs (and one in particular) in the last 365 days I would say that some refactoring and course direction to the warleaders, first captains and simple SMs is a good course :)

[Loesh]

But yes, I will likely read Black Legion for the same reason I stuck with Talon of Horus if all else fails, i'v always enjoyed the concept of the sorcerous fighter ever since good ol Gandalf.

Yes he's an old man, no he's not squishy, in fact he'll melee a freaking Balrog.

Edit: Expanding on this because I have too much free time, there's a lot of little things that I like about Khayons depiction in the excerpt of Black Legion. Personally i'v always been a fan of more subtle and abstract magic as per Tolken and R.R Martin, sorcery that attaches itself to concepts like bone, blood, shadow, flesh, and flame, not strictly elemental flame but flame in the symbolic sense. This kind of magic users I like are those who use magic sparingly but with interesting or unorthodox effects, such as when Khayon uses his sorcery to undo a Tzeengors blindness in Talon, it's not necessarily flashy in the same way as apocalyptic firestorm or binding a greater Daemon but it's a subtle effect that accomplishes much, in many ways I felt this was more impressive then summoning the Ragged Knight, but Khayon knows you don't need to blow up half the ship to get the Beastmen to serve his needs. It shows he's not a 'reacher' he doesn't overextend his powers meaninglessly, it's careful, calculated, and wise.

This is because Khayon in the first half of Talon of Horus embodies Sorcerers in their most primal archetype: The Wanderer, the person who has been anywhere and everywhere, the traveler whose seen everything there is to see. It's why staves are linked so closely with magic users, besides just being a primal weapon it's making a link between their worldlyness and their power, this link is most likely how the entire concept of Force Weapons in Warhammer came about where you could discern someones power, their history, or even aspects of their personality from the Psykers weapon of choice. In Khayons case it's an axe, which is also symbolic of his travels, of his history in Prospero and what he's learned, and it's almost symbolic of his search for brotherhood throughout the rest of the story to replace what has been lost. This is important because it helps the case for what he does at the end of Talon, a lot of people have hang ups with it but it was believable to me...not just because it happened within the Eye but because Khayon has proven throughout the story to be a Sorcerer of power, intelligence, and skill if only subtly so. 

In magic this is important to a readers suspension of disbelief because it magic is done well it doesn't have strictly defined rules and limits, it overturns a universe internal consistency for the most part but in this Wanderer archetype it links to a person wisdom and experience. We don't have statistics for what a spell does or how it's conjured, but we can trust the caster if he's well written and well fleshed.

In Black Legion Khayon is tilting towards my other favorite Psyker archetype, which is that of the spellsword. Drawing on the concept of a philosopher warrior he's blending assassination in with magic, using knowledge and physical might in tandem to fight his enemies. What I love especially from the excerpt is the almost shamantic way that Khayon goes about this, while Khayon himself is very erudite and well spoken his techniques are primal, ironically perhaps they are like what I would expect a rogue Rune Priest to do. He gathers information on his targets, learns who and what they are and uses it strike them down. Remember how I said I like magic as something subtle and abstract? Well this kind of magic is both of those, it supports itself and it's believably in universe by drawing on folkloric superstitions about the power of language, knowledge, and personal effects over the soul, down to Khayon standing up in front of a fortress and chanting to the sky in order to reach out and crush his enemies in spirit after years of preparation in much the same way as primitive humans might stand under the night sky and chant to the stars to draw on power for a curse or a blessing, Ingthel has a much more perverse and savage take on this in The First Heretic which I also love. In this way Khayon can do something as cataclysmic as throw an entire fortress into chaos and kill multiple Astartes, but makes it believable not just because itis balanced by the fact it doesn't succeed 100% but because when it *does* succeed you can find Khayons power more believable from how evocative what he is doing is to primal human instincts, how that irrational side of our brain finds all these factors as powerful tools despite them being less tangible then...say...a boltgun or an orbital bombardment. It even does have small limitations that we can see, such as the simple fact when he possesses someone their skill with a weapon is linked with his, he failed largely because he didn't use a pair of Lightning Claws as his primary weapons! and I love that.

Anyway there's a little rambling nonsensical rant about why I love Khayons depiction in ToH and BL.

[HeritorA]

But yes, I will likely read Black Legion for the same reason I stuck with Talon of Horus if all else fails, i'v always enjoyed the concept of the sorcerous fighter ever since good ol Gandalf.

 

Yes he's an old man, no he's not squishy, in fact he'll melee a freaking Balrog.

 

Edit: Expanding on this because I have too much free time, there's a lot of little things that I like about Khayons depiction in the excerpt of Black Legion. Personally i'v always been a fan of more subtle and abstract magic as per Tolken and R.R Martin, sorcery that attaches itself to concepts like bone, blood, shadow, flesh, and flame, not strictly elemental flame but flame in the symbolic sense. This kind of magic users I like are those who use magic sparingly but with interesting or unorthodox effects, such as when Khayon uses his sorcery to undo a Tzeengors blindness in Talon, it's not necessarily flashy in the same way as apocalyptic firestorm or binding a greater Daemon but it's a subtle effect that accomplishes much, in many ways I felt this was more impressive then summoning the Ragged Knight, but Khayon knows you don't need to blow up half the ship to get the Beastmen to serve his needs. It shows he's not a 'reacher' he doesn't overextend his powers meaninglessly, it's careful, calculated, and wise.

 

This is because Khayon in the first half of Talon of Horus embodies Sorcerers in their most primal archetype: The Wanderer, the person who has been anywhere and everywhere, the traveler whose seen everything there is to see. It's why staves are linked so closely with magic users, besides just being a primal weapon it's making a link between their worldlyness and their power, this link is most likely how the entire concept of Force Weapons in Warhammer came about where you could discern someones power, their history, or even aspects of their personality from the Psykers weapon of choice. In Khayons case it's an axe, which is also symbolic of his travels, of his history in Prospero and what he's learned, and it's almost symbolic of his search for brotherhood throughout the rest of the story to replace what has been lost. This is important because it helps the case for what he does at the end of Talon, a lot of people have hang ups with it but it was believable to me...not just because it happened within the Eye but because Khayon has proven throughout the story to be a Sorcerer of power, intelligence, and skill if only subtly so. 

 

In magic this is important to a readers suspension of disbelief because it magic is done well it doesn't have strictly defined rules and limits, it overturns a universe internal consistency for the most part but in this Wanderer archetype it links to a person wisdom and experience. We don't have statistics for what a spell does or how it's conjured, but we can trust the caster if he's well written and well fleshed.

 

In Black Legion Khayon is tilting towards my other favorite Psyker archetype, which is that of the spellsword. Drawing on the concept of a philosopher warrior he's blending assassination in with magic, using knowledge and physical might in tandem to fight his enemies. What I love especially from the excerpt is the almost shamantic way that Khayon goes about this, while Khayon himself is very erudite and well spoken his techniques are primal, ironically perhaps they are like what I would expect a rogue Rune Priest to do. He gathers information on his targets, learns who and what they are and uses it strike them down. Remember how I said I like magic as something subtle and abstract? Well this kind of magic is both of those, it supports itself and it's believably in universe by drawing on folkloric superstitions about the power of language, knowledge, and personal effects over the soul, down to Khayon standing up in front of a fortress and chanting to the sky in order to reach out and crush his enemies in spirit after years of preparation in much the same way as primitive humans might stand under the night sky and chant to the stars to draw on power for a curse or a blessing, Ingthel has a much more perverse and savage take on this in The First Heretic which I also love. In this way Khayon can do something as cataclysmic as throw an entire fortress into chaos and kill multiple Astartes, but makes it believable not just because itis balanced by the fact it doesn't succeed 100% but because when it *does* succeed you can find Khayons power more believable from how evocative what he is doing is to primal human instincts, how that irrational side of our brain finds all these factors as powerful tools despite them being less tangible then...say...a boltgun or an orbital bombardment. It even does have small limitations that we can see, such as the simple fact when he possesses someone their skill with a weapon is linked with his, he failed largely because he didn't use a pair of Lightning Claws as his primary weapons! and I love that.

 

Anyway there's a little rambling nonsensical rant about why I love Khayons depiction in ToH and BL.

 

Nice summary. I think Khayon is more like ronin mixed with the italian brigant in that one.

Plus A D-B in the excerpt made a good explanation to the 'magic' in the Eye of Terror - how unstable, ritualistic and spontaneous it could be

[Robster The Lobster]

Does anybody know if the limited edition will include a short story, like ToH had?

[A D-B]

Does anybody know if the limited edition will include a short story, like ToH had?

 

Yep. It's set a few years into the First Black Crusade, as a teaser for that conflict and the first time we see one of Khayon's long-term Imperial rivals.

[DukeLeto69]

 

Does anybody know if the limited edition will include a short story, like ToH had?

 

 

Yep. It's set a few years into the First Black Crusade, as a teaser for that conflict and the first time we see one of Khayon's long-term Imperial rivals.

So is that you confirming that book three in the Black Legion series is about the First Black Crusade? Personally I really hope so!

[Robster The Lobster]

 

 

Does anybody know if the limited edition will include a short story, like ToH had?

Yep. It's set a few years into the First Black Crusade, as a teaser for that conflict and the first time we see one of Khayon's long-term Imperial rivals.

Super Coolio!

 

I just finished Resurrection( good book btw), so now I need the black legion. And a extra short teaser story is icing on something sugary.

[A D-B]

 

 

Does anybody know if the limited edition will include a short story, like ToH had?

 

Yep. It's set a few years into the First Black Crusade, as a teaser for that conflict and the first time we see one of Khayon's long-term Imperial rivals.

So is that you confirming that book three in the Black Legion series is about the First Black Crusade? Personally I really hope so!

 

 

Yep, Book III, if it ever happens, would be Abaddon going to get Drach'nyen in the first Black Crusade.

[bluntblade]

So there was a short with ToH's special edition? Can I get it anywhere else?

[HeritorA]

 

Does anybody know if the limited edition will include a short story, like ToH had?

 

Yep. It's set a few years into the First Black Crusade, as a teaser for that conflict and the first time we see one of Khayon's long-term Imperial rivals.

 

 

Awesome! Now I do have a reason to get the limited.

 

A D-B

is it in the same page count as the previous short in ToH limited? Or shorter/longer.

Does it contain some curious 'battle' scenes or is it solely focused on characters.

Also, kind of confused on the Black Templars story in BL.

So all the 'battle' with Sigismund is not in scope of the First Black Crusade? It is before the start of it? Or is the Black Legion vs Black Templars (nice by the way black on black) a definite start of  it?

[Kelborn]

Sigismund vs Abaddon could be a genius cliffhanger....

 

"Sigismund."

 

"Traitor..."

 

The End

 

:jaw:

 

SCREW YOU, A D-B! ;) :P

[HeritorA]

Sigismund vs Abaddon could be a genius cliffhanger....

 

"Sigismund."

 

"Traitor..."

 

The End

 

 

SCREW YOU, A D-B!

 

I think even A D-B would not troll us in such a way :)

Just imagine the aproar

[Kelborn]

HA!

Optimist.

 

Since I've started watching Games of Thrones and especially after 5th season's final, I'm expecting the worst case at anytime. ^^

[HeritorA]

HA!

Optimist.

 

Since I've started watching Games of Thrones and especially after 5th season's final, I'm expecting the worst case at anytime. ^^

 

He will not do so :) Just imagine - even the most lovely fans of his, who like everything he wrote will be utterly devastated. Especially them, cause we all know how 'quickly' our beloved A D-B can write

 

And just imagine my disappointment and rage if that will happen

[A D-B]

I don't think so, bluntblade. I think the point of them is to stay exclusive forever. Don't worry about missing it, I'm very careful to make sure it's all just teaser material for the next book, or insight into stuff that isn't integral to the Legion / Khayon / other characters.

 

I try to make them worth the extra time and money, and interesting enough to be desirable, but entirely unessential so people don't miss out.

[b1soul]

Absolute shame if the series stops at book 2

 

Oh man, that would suck

[HeritorA]

Absolute shame if the series stops at book 2

 

Oh man, that would suck

 

It will not - fans are beyond positive on the serie.

And if Black Legion will live to the hype (And I think he will) - it would have a truly bright future ahead (as long as A D-B will be able to write)

[HeritorA]

A D-B  don't know if you are now one of the community who ignore me, or simply miss my questions or do not think I deserve an answer on them

(I lost the hope to get the answers to the one from the BL Live 2016) - but could you answer please:

 

1) Is the short in BL is in the same page count as the previous short in ToH limited? Or shorter/longer?

2) Does it contain some curious 'battle' scenes or is it solely focused on characters.

'I'm very careful to make sure it's all just teaser material for the next book, or insight into stuff that isn't integral to the Legion / Khayon / other characters' - but still?

3) Also, kind of confused on the Black Templars story in BL. So all the 'battle' with Sigismund is not in scope of the First Black Crusade? It is before the start of it? Or is the Black Legion vs Black Templars (nice by the way black on black) a definite start of  it?

4) Will you explain how Abaddon use the helmet in the void due to him having a really BIG topknot?

5) What you will think on the episodic series from Richard for the Black Legion cycle (like the one he did for Helsreach)?

6) Is it on pre-order on August 5th? Or that's directly the day of it going for sale? Kind of confused why it was not available for pre-order then? (This title will be available to order on the 5th of August as an eBook, Hardback and MP3.)

[DukeLeto69]

 

 

 

Does anybody know if the limited edition will include a short story, like ToH had?

 

 

Yep. It's set a few years into the First Black Crusade, as a teaser for that conflict and the first time we see one of Khayon's long-term Imperial rivals.

So is that you confirming that book three in the Black Legion series is about the First Black Crusade? Personally I really hope so!

 

Yep, Book III, if it ever happens, would be Abaddon going to get Drach'nyen in the first Black Crusade.

If IF IFFFFFF it ever happens! Man don't say things like that. We all totally want THAT book! Even if we don't end up with a Black Legion series (though I hope we do) we at very least need a nice trilogy!

 

I expect this to sell so I am sure BL will want more. Hope you still enjoying writing about Black Legion etc.

[Vesper]

I have to say I really enjoyed The Wonderworker. Such a cool little piece.

[A D-B]

 

Absolute shame if the series stops at book 2

 

Oh man, that would suck

 

It will not - fans are beyond positive on the serie.

 

I totally appreciate the readers' enthusiasm, and it's very humbling - more so for a series like this one where you're examining the guts of the setting and how it works, and you're starting from scratch with new characters or characters that have had a bad reputation for years in the fandom. Reader enthusiasm isn't the issue, though, and I've laid out in detail earlier in the thread why the series might not go on, so I won't repeat it all here.

 

Suffice to say, its not a threat or something I'm dangling over anyone's head. GW have been great lately, but I have no info to offer yet, as I've not had the relevant talks. Been too busy with other stuff.

 

 

A D-B  don't know if you are now one of the community who ignore me, or simply miss my questions or do not think I deserve an answer on them

(I lost the hope to get the answers to the one from the BL Live 2016) - but could you answer please:

 

1) Is the short in BL is in the same page count as the previous short in ToH limited? Or shorter/longer?

2) Does it contain some curious 'battle' scenes or is it solely focused on characters.

'I'm very careful to make sure it's all just teaser material for the next book, or insight into stuff that isn't integral to the Legion / Khayon / other characters' - but still?

3) Also, kind of confused on the Black Templars story in BL. So all the 'battle' with Sigismund is not in scope of the First Black Crusade? It is before the start of it? Or is the Black Legion vs Black Templars (nice by the way black on black) a definite start of  it?

4) Will you explain how Abaddon use the helmet in the void due to him having a really BIG topknot?

5) What you will think on the episodic series from Richard for the Black Legion cycle (like the one he did for Helsreach)?

6) Is it on pre-order on August 5th? Or that's directly the day of it going for sale? Kind of confused why it was not available for pre-order then? (This title will be available to order on the 5th of August as an eBook, Hardback and MP3.)

 

Dear Jeebus, I get hundreds of questions every week, and literally no one else, anywhere, asks stuff like some of these. Some of the stuff that's important to you often mystifies me, man. But I'll see if I can shed some light:

 

1. I don't remember how long either short story is. It's as long as it needed to be, and as long as I wanted it to be at the time. That sounds like a bad joke, but it's not. I'm in bed on my phone so I can't check my Dropbox for the word counts. "About the same?" is my guess.
2. I don't really understand this question. Writing should always develop and reveal character, whether the characters are fighting or talking in a scene. The synopsis for the short story is 'Khayon meets someone who will be a rival for many years in possible future books'.
3. The Black Legion / Black Templars stuff is already answered a few times in the thread. Book 1 is life in the Eye. Book 2 is life in the Eye and them breaking out of the Eye.
4. No, I keep forgetting.
5. I wouldn't dare dream of it - I'm already ridiculously honoured that Helsreach has such a thing, and Richard's always been super-cool about the whole thing. It'd be selfish and vain to hope for more.
6. Oh, God, I have no idea. I pay no attention to that stuff. Although I'm grateful you reminded me it's out next week, as I'd totally forgotten.

Hope that helps!

 

 

I have to say I really enjoyed The Wonderworker. Such a cool little piece.

 

Thanks, Vesp. I appreciate that a lot, I was really happy with how it came out. In a lot of ways, the exclusive shorts are very freeing - you can write Day In The Life aspects of characters, granting little insights, and float some ideas for the next book to a small crowd nice and early.

[bluntblade]

Abaddon undoes his topknot when necessary. I'm sure that's been mentioned in a Heresy book.

[Walter Payton]

For some reason Abaddon's topknot really grinds my gears.  I know it shouldn't since its hardly a contender for "most unrealistic thing in the 40k universe" but it does.  I think its because his old model its almost taller than his trophy racks.