Sonoftherubric21 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Yeah lmao its still the same. The force weapon changes and predator autocannon help me a lot. interested to see what our other stratagem is Amen to force weapons/pred cannons. Hilarity ensues "You get to use Vets of the long war" and there was much rejoicing! (or...there will be when that happens) So as of this moment an exalted with sword or stave is 121 all gear inclusive, on disc they are 155. The ones on disc are exceedingly overpriced for what they can provide. Hope the dex either buffs them or fixes them in some way to make them worth the cost (hello auras!) ------------ Boomwolf; for the record I tend to agree that the Exalted box is going to be the "go to" if Gw throws a bunch of Elite slot aura abilites at us like the DG have. but currently the biggest issue of our faction as far as chaos is concerned is the lack of fast slots, pretty good on most other counts if we toss in FW ontop of our current GW offerings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 My bad guys! I just had my index on me at the time, looked, and didn't think about the FAQ haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varyn Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Good reductions on some FW units to help our limited army list options. E.g. Helforged contemptor with 2 butcher cannons dropped from 206 to 163. Fire raptor base cost dropped by 60 plus the cost reduction in balefire missiles and reaper batteries make this much more points efficient. If only it wasn't such an awful kit to build! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 "Arrogance of Aeons" is the warlord trait, Atheneaen Scrolls (sp) is the relic, Cabalistic Ritual (sp) is the Stratagem and the spell is...... Drum roll........ Tzeentch's Firestorm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomWolf Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Well, guess they had to keep to the theme of that spell being utterly useless XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 While I’m not going to say that Tzeentch’s firestorm is fantastic (or even ‘good’), it on average will deal the same number of mortal wounds as infernal gaze. So if they had the same manifesting cost it would probably be a decent power if you wanted to make a pure ‘mortal wound battery’ sorcerer. However, at its current manifesting cost I have to agree that it’s utter garbage and I will never take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomWolf Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Well, the fact its rather similar to gaze in effect IS the issue. Gaze is widely considered a subpar spell, and yet this is a harder to cast variant of gaze. it really brings forth the question of why ever picking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Well, the fact its rather similar to gaze in effect IS the issue. Gaze is widely considered a subpar spell, and yet this is a harder to cast variant of gaze. it really brings forth the question of why ever picking it. I certainly will. And then Ill laugh maniacally whenever it nails a weak 4 wound character. I can generally get away with fooling around with sub-par options in my Meta so its "okay" in my case. Tossing both and gaze if you go even slightly above stat youve just killed a hidden character. (assuming both spells go off and you roll *average* with both generally) Lord knows the dice gods are fickle lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Well if you get both off you will have on average dealt only 3 mortal wounds... So I just did the math, for each attempt at gaze (including the odds for the psychic test) you should on average see 1.2 mortal wounds per cast over time. Contrast that with the .833 per cast of firestorm... contrasted with the 1.73 of a simple smite... this is all with no bonuses to your casting roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 What I'd like to see is a list of all the damage spells across the factiona average wounds/WC. That would really show who has the best options, and then show the value of low cost psykers on top of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 From all the ones I’ve looked at, smite is the most damaging one period not even factoring in the warp charge cost. The blood angels one is pretty good against low toughness armies though. Admittedly, I haven’t seen all of them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Well I know the DG one is also decent for cost (Plague Wind or something?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 So Tzeentch firestorm is half as effective as Smite while being more difficult to cast. With the current options i don't see a reason to take the pyschic power. Feels like the old GW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yncarne Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 We keep the Space Wolf and Eldar players feeling good when they beat their "foil". I'm not sure if it is GW's heart or brain that needs examining when I see "firestorm" as a thrown bone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Both the contagion ones have the potential to be far more damaging against hoards and GEQ, but against MEQ and tougher they are more likely to be outclassed by even infernal gaze on average. Either one is still better than firestorm for the cost though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nym Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 I think GW highly overestimates the value of Firestorm's peak damage. Yes, it can potentially deal 9 Mortal Wounds, but it will happen once every 100000 games... They need to realise that a reliable power like Smite will ALWAYS be favored by players over one that could *potentially* deal more damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolchiate Remembrancer Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 I think GW highly overestimates the value of Firestorm's peak damage. Yes, it can potentially deal 9 Mortal Wounds, but it will happen once every 100000 games... They need to realise that a reliable power like Smite will ALWAYS be favored by players over one that could *potentially* deal more damage. On a positive...in higher point games with multiple sorcerors on the field it will see some use. So there is that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 How many wounds should Smite, Infernal Gaze and Tzeentch's Firestorm cause if all 3 are used from Ahriman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skallagoose Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Smite, for all the people complaining, is fine the way it is. While it is VERY powerful, the user has no choice in who it goes on- it always goes on the nearest target unit. If people are so upset by it, they should be taking more assassins, cultests, brims, or conscripts (cheap screening units). I went a tournament a few weeks ago where one of my opponents was complaining that i killed a lot of his army with smites. At the end of the game i showed him how to avoid smite spam in the future and he just looked at me like "ooooh". That said; The power of Infernal Gaze and Tzeentch's firestorm is that it isnt restricted by targeting. You can snipe characters. That is HUGELY important against certain armies. Tzeentch's firestorm, while not particularly regular, does have the reliability to put out (usually) 1 mortal wound a turn. That said i do believe it should have been: casting value of 7, rolls of 6s cause Mortal Wounds, Casting value of 10, rolls of 5+ cause mortal wounds, just like the smite spell. That said, im not thinking its a weak spell either. You all know there will be a time when you cast it on a key character and the enemy WONT try to dispel it because they think "oh, one Mortal wound, whatever" and then it causes 5 just through lucky rolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 @ archaeinox, I will run the numbers at lunch. Edit, so I had a few minutes and ran the numbers on the Ahriman ‘mortal wound machine gun’. The wounds per spell over time is as follows: Firestorm- 1.08, Gaze- 1.33, Smite 2.15; for a total average of 4.56 mortal wounds a turn. IMHO, I agree with the idea of making 10+ wound on 5+’s, but the entry cost should still probably be a 6 WC power in its base form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Love that idea for Firestorm. Cast at 10+ makes it a 5+? Win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 I was just messing around and threw 9 dice and got five 6s. That will never happen to me again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 And never in a game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreaterChickenofTzeentch Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Smite, for all the people complaining, is fine the way it is. While it is VERY powerful, the user has no choice in who it goes on- it always goes on the nearest target unit. If people are so upset by it, they should be taking more assassins, cultests, brims, or conscripts (cheap screening units). I went a tournament a few weeks ago where one of my opponents was complaining that i killed a lot of his army with smites. At the end of the game i showed him how to avoid smite spam in the future and he just looked at me like "ooooh". That said; The power of Infernal Gaze and Tzeentch's firestorm is that it isnt restricted by targeting. You can snipe characters. That is HUGELY important against certain armies. Tzeentch's firestorm, while not particularly regular, does have the reliability to put out (usually) 1 mortal wound a turn. That said i do believe it should have been: casting value of 7, rolls of 6s cause Mortal Wounds, Casting value of 10, rolls of 5+ cause mortal wounds, just like the smite spell. That said, im not thinking its a weak spell either. You all know there will be a time when you cast it on a key character and the enemy WONT try to dispel it because they think "oh, one Mortal wound, whatever" and then it causes 5 just through lucky rolls Also, Firestorm specifically says that you can swap another power for it (other than Smite) before the game starts. If you need character sniping, make the switch. If not, leave it on the bench. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomWolf Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 If you need character sniping, you better look elsewhere because the odds of firestorm sniping even the weakest characters is practically non-existent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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