[DW] Blackthorn and Swordhand: OOC Thread

[A.T.]

Don't suppose there's a rule for scaling weapons up to 2-handed??

There is the astartes executioner axe in rites of battle. That's a fairly substantial weapon though.

[Commissar Molotov]

Is there any mileage at looking at Dark Heresy - the difference between an axe and a two-handed/great weapon?

[Steel Company]

Possibly, if only to extrapolate the rules.

[Commissar Molotov]

Okay, so:

 

 

In Dark Heresy, you have:

 

Axe: 1D10+1 Pen 0, Primitive, Unbalanced

Sword: 1D10, Pen 0, Balanced, Primitive

Great Weapon: 2D10, Pen 0, Primitive, Unwieldy

 

In Deathwatch (Errata), you have:

 

Power Axe: 1D10+8, Pen 7, Power Field, Unbalanced

Power Sword: 1D10+6, Pen 6, Balanced, Power Field

Force Sword: 1D10+2, Pen 2, Balanced, Special

 

We talked about the Force Axe previously being 1D10+3, Pen 2, Special, Unbalanced

 

My thoughts on a Force Greataxe: 2D10, Pen 2, Special, Unwieldy

 

Considering you can still add Strength Bonus and your Psychic Proficiency, what do you think?

[Steel Company]

That all looks good, but I found one wrinkle, in the errata page 14, we have these two handed weapons as well:

 

 

Astartes Power Claymore: 1D10+11 Pen 8, Power Field, Devastating (1), Unwieldy

 

Astartes Executioner Ax: 1D10+13 Pen 8, Power Field, Unwieldly, Felling (1)

 

 

 

My thoughts for the Force Grateax: 1D10+7 Pen 4, Special, Unwieldy (all usual force weapon stuff applies)

 

 

What do you think CM?

Edited March 4, 2021 by Steel Company

[Mazer Rackham]

At this point is it a Greataxe or Halberd?

 

If the latter: Force Halberd 1D10+9 (+SB and any PR) Pen 8 (Plus PR) Unblanced, Two-handed, Special (Force).

 

Otherwise, Steel's suggestion looks good to me in the middle, although I might bump the AP to 5.

 

My tuppence.

 

MR.

[A.T.]

There are the stats for a two handed force halberd in the Emperor Protects, page 91:

1d10+3 damage, Pen 2, Unbalanced.

 

I'd guess an axe would be 1d10+4, pen 2, unwieldy  - it matches with the errata of changing extra dice into +4 damage (so the 2d10 greatweapon becomes 1d10+4)

 

 

 

At this point is it a Greataxe or Halberd?

If the latter: Force Halberd 1D10+9 (+SB and any PR) Pen 8 (Plus PR) Unblanced, Two-handed, Special (Force).

Edit - That's the one from Emperor Protects. The character wielding it has a psychic level of 6 giving it the 1d10+3 damage baseline (unless you give it the entirely less generous reading of having strength included)
 

Edited March 4, 2021 by A.T.

[Steel Company]

I thought about AP 5 MR, but with the ability to improve the AP via Psi rating, that could get stupid, really fast.

[Mojake]

Wow, thanks everyone for jumping in with the suggestions - it's nice to not be shot down for suggesting homebrew!

 

r.e. Unwieldy, is there a talent to bypass it? I've built Achillion to be good at parrying, e.g. parry while Frenzied, so would be more than happy to take a talent to keep that build.

 

Edit: Battle Rage and Counter-Attack are talents I took, so Unwieldy would nullify them unfortunately.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Mojake

[Mazer Rackham]

The character wielding it has a psychic level of 6 giving it the 1d10+3 damage baseline (unless you give it the entirely less generous reading of having strength included)

 

Ah!  That would explain my confusion.  Good thinking AT.

 

MR.

 

I thought about AP 5 MR, but with the ability to improve the AP via Psi rating, that could get stupid, really fast.

 

Everyone gangster until a Greater Daemon pops out of your head....

 

@Mojake, more WS I guess?   I don't think there's a talent specifically.

 

MR.

[Steel Company]

While true, but a high AP is useful, but you don't want to make it so he can carve through tanks with ease.

 

 

As for Unwieldly, might be a bit harsh, but having fought against a greatax with a longsword (two-handed sword for those that know them by their D&D names), they can be used to parry, it's just not that easy... perhaps unbalanced then, if we keep the damage slightly lower and the ap around 4/5. Mostly since that would only impose a -10 to his WS to parry with it.

[Mojake]

That would be better for me (obviously) but I don't want to seem like I'm gaming the system at all, if nixing Unwieldy doesn't make sense I'll just keep it as a 1h weapon and deal with an inaccurate mini!

[A.T.]

r.e. Unwieldy, is there a talent to bypass it?

The two handed force halberd is just unbalanced, and is the closest thing to an official statline.

 

Alternatively the arcane weaponry upgrade from rites of battle will set you back 15 requisition every mission, but will do the job.

[Steel Company]

In the end, it's up to CM. But I'm grateful for how open he's been to homebrew items, provided that they are balanced.

[Mojake]

How does this seem?

 

Force Greataxe: 1D10+4, Pen 3, Unbalanced, Felling (1), Two-handed, Special (Force)

[Steel Company]

Felling is a dicy power to put on it since it ignores one level of Unnatural toughness and you can already bypass toughness with the force weapon ability to fry someone's brain.

[Mojake]

Ah okay, so minus the Felling?

[Steel Company]

Yeah, I'd leave Felling off of it, but again this is up to CM.

[Deadass]

I've put up a new placeholder for Boros' thoughts and interactions during the audience - I'm worried that I'm being too rash with his words at Grist, so I'd be happy to edit that bit out if necessary.

 

On an unrelated note, I'm feeling peer pressure due to the upcoming models of Titus and Achillion I spent the last hour or so looking at artwork showing Devastator Marines!

Edited March 4, 2021 by AHorriblePerson

[Mojake]

I've put up a new placeholder for Boros' thoughts and interactions during the audience - I'm worried that I'm being too rash with his words at Grist, so I'd be happy to edit that bit out if necessary.

 

On an unrelated note, I'm feeling peer pressure due to the upcoming models of Titus and Achillion :sweat: I spent the last hour or so looking at artwork showing Devastator Marines!

Can't wait to see it! I'm going to have to flex my painting skills to make Achillion's face look scarred and to add a shaved head, there's a serious lack of heads compatible with psychic hoods out there!

[Ancient_Sobek]

I just want to say how much I’m loving all of the fantastic writing you guys are doing. I finally picked up the first Siege of Terra book and I haven’t gotten very far into it because I have been much more interested in what you awesome people have been coming up with. This has been a blast so far!

[Mojake]

Achillion built but unpainted.

 

Gave him a new arm & axe, switched out his bolt-pistol for a different pattern, gave him a snazzy purity seal, replaced a belt pouch with a blood vial, scraped off some of the symbols on the base model I didn't like, gave him the correct chapter symbol on his pauldron, and gave him a resin base topper to finish. I really can't wait to start painting him, I think I'm going to take my sweet time and get him just right since he'll only really serve as a display piece!

Edited March 4, 2021 by Mojake

[Lysimachus]

On an unrelated note, I'm feeling peer pressure due to the upcoming models of Titus and Achillion :sweat: I spent the last hour or so looking at artwork showing Devastator Marines!

Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it...

 

Achillion looks awesome, the base Libby is great anyway, but the added bits really work as the character!

[Mojake]

Thanks! Yeah I was prepared to do a lot of work but once I really analysed the 360 view on GW site I realised that the base model actually fits really well. The only thing I couldn't convert because of the sprue and psychic hood was the head, but I'm hoping to change it a bit with the way I paint.

[Necronaut]

1. Placeholder updated.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344357-dw-blackthornswordhand-episode-iii-the-sundered-house/?p=5674463

 

2. Replacement XP expenditures for Two Weapon Fighting and Forging the Bond talents:

 

• Dodge +10 (Codex Advances, 400 XP)
• Awareness +10 (Codex Advances, 400 XP)
• Lore: Common (Deathwatch) +0 (Deathwatch Advances, 200 XP)
• Sound Constitution (General Astartes Advances, 500 XP)

Helgrim is no great scholar, but he did do some book learning in his training to become a Deathwatch chaplain.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Necronaut