9th edition incoming

[Axilleas]

 

 

So there is a big debate going on elsewhere, but since they are both vehicles, as long as they remain 3" of each other, they satisfy that requirement. They then just need other screening units anywhere in front of them.

They’re both vehicles, yes, but they’re also both Characters, and other Characters are ignored for the purposes of the new Look Out, Sir rule, so they can’t screen each other. If you run Bjorn and Murderfang together, but with no other non-Character Vehicle, Monster, or 3+ model unit nearby, then you can freely target both/either.

 

Edit: at least that’s how I read it at first pass, but maybe it doesn’t really work that way. Who knows.

"Ignore other enemy character models when determining if the target is the closest enemy model to the firing unit"

 

 

Based on what has been released the only thing characters do NOT count as is a closer unit.

 

So 2 characters with no other models closer can both be selected at will by the firing model.

 

However...if my infiltrators are closer and hiding out of LOS then Bjorn and Canis can hold hands and walk without fear of incoming fire

Correct, but to work together, the characters must also be either a monster or vehicle, or a unit of 3. Hence Bjorn and Murderfang, but Canis would not work.

[TiguriusX]

 

 

 

So there is a big debate going on elsewhere, but since they are both vehicles, as long as they remain 3" of each other, they satisfy that requirement. They then just need other screening units anywhere in front of them.

They’re both vehicles, yes, but they’re also both Characters, and other Characters are ignored for the purposes of the new Look Out, Sir rule, so they can’t screen each other. If you run Bjorn and Murderfang together, but with no other non-Character Vehicle, Monster, or 3+ model unit nearby, then you can freely target both/either.

 

Edit: at least that’s how I read it at first pass, but maybe it doesn’t really work that way. Who knows.

"Ignore other enemy character models when determining if the target is the closest enemy model to the firing unit"

 

 

Based on what has been released the only thing characters do NOT count as is a closer unit.

 

So 2 characters with no other models closer can both be selected at will by the firing model.

 

However...if my infiltrators are closer and hiding out of LOS then Bjorn and Canis can hold hands and walk without fear of incoming fire

Correct, but to work together, the characters must also be either a monster or vehicle, or a unit of 3. Hence Bjorn and Murderfang, but Canis would not work.

Sorry meant murderfang not canis.

 

I use triple venerable chaplains so the HQ rules that I relied on to build the list haven't really changed.

[Valerian]

 

Here is another small change that someone noticed and pointed out on Facebook.  After all Charging units have made their attacks, the player whose turn it isn't gets to pick who to activate for the Fight phase next.  This is the opposite of how it that works now.  

[Lord Blackwood]

This is better for us though due to how counter charge works , if it is your opponents turn , they charge one of your units , you  counter charge them back , you  get a unit in the charge order and you pick the first combat out of the charge order. 


Deathguard shennangins not withstanding. 

[Valerian]

This is huge!

 

 

EDIT:

 

Very punishing, but even trapped units can attempt to Fall Back/escape now.  Can't even attempt to cast a Psychic Power , or even to Fight back, if re-charged.

 

 

There will still be regular Fall Back for units that haven't been completely trapped/tri-pointed.

[Kassill]

This is huge!

 

 

Very punishing to attempt to Fall Back now.  Can't even attempt to Fight back, if re-charged.

 

Yet another 9e change that gives a huge advantage to melee armies.  Says they can't act even if they have a rule that would allow them to do so after Falling Back.  

 

Might be my naivete, but at that point, wouldn't it be better to just stand and fight, even if you suck at fighting? 2 cp to maybe, get away, with maybe most of your guys, to fall back...and do nothing?  Even if I was playing a gunline army I think I'd rather save the 2 cp and hope they take a few with them in combat. Again, might be my lack of tabletop showing here. 

[Valerian]

 

Might be my naivete, but at that point, wouldn't it be better to just stand and fight, even if you suck at fighting? 2 cp to maybe, get away, with maybe most of your guys, to fall back...and do nothing?  Even if I was playing a gunline army I think I'd rather save the 2 cp and hope they take a few with them in combat. Again, might be my lack of tabletop showing here. 

 

 

You'd want to do it to get out of Engagement range and then expose that melee unit to the rest of your army's Shooting.  You sacrifice one unit that can't do anything, but was probably going to die, to get all of your other guns a chance to deal with the problem.

[Kassill]

 

 

Might be my naivete, but at that point, wouldn't it be better to just stand and fight, even if you suck at fighting? 2 cp to maybe, get away, with maybe most of your guys, to fall back...and do nothing?  Even if I was playing a gunline army I think I'd rather save the 2 cp and hope they take a few with them in combat. Again, might be my lack of tabletop showing here. 

 

 

You'd want to do it to get out of Engagement range and then expose that melee unit to the rest of your army's Shooting.  You sacrifice one unit that can't do anything, but was probably going to die, to get all of your other guns a chance to deal with the problem.

 

Ahh, righto. That's what happens when you don't really play for two and a half editions  

 

 

I recognize my failing and will be sure to correct it

[Triszin]

could we use that to assist our heroic intervention?

Edited June 21, 2020 by Triszin

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

 

This is huge!

 

 

Very punishing to attempt to Fall Back now. Can't even attempt to Fight back, if re-charged.

 

Yet another 9e change that gives a huge advantage to melee armies. Says they can't act even if they have a rule that would allow them to do so after Falling Back.

 

EDIT: After thinking it over a bit, my guess is that there will still be a "regular" Fall Back option, and that this desperate move is only used for units that have been completely trapped/tri-pointed.

I believe your edit to be correct; I think this strategem is for those times when you have been wrapped in a unit preventing you from falling back; something I have witnessed at my local game store.

Warhammer community confirmed on Facebook that regular fall back is in, this is just a way to get out of a wrap and trap or tripoint scenario.

[Valerian]

could we use that to assist our heroic intervention?

 

I don't think so, unless the opponent uses this strat to escape a trap, but then puts themselves within 6" range of one of our Characters, who could then HI to get into combat.  We could maybe also use the strat that lets us HI a unit to re-lock, but it would be after their Shooting phase, so it would be with whoever was left alive.

[Karack Blackstone]

I seriously just wish SW Intercessors could get their own Astartes Chainswords; eh, maybe in time.

 

Oh well, at the least we as players can kitbash the models from the Assault IC's and the regular into some pretty meaty looking guys.

 

Also, still waiting for Grav Cannon with Grav-Amp, and might still be doing so for a while. Still, SW's I think would seriously benefit from it.

[Lord Blackwood]

This is an interesting one. 

Multi charges becoming more risky , trapping units now can be mitigated but at great cost to the  person whos trying to run. 

I  feel like this a strat that will exclusively be used to let the entire rest of yer army shoot at something. 

[Valerian]

Yeah, it wouldn't be worth using otherwise.  As it says in the title, it's for a Desperate Escape.

[TiguriusX]

If you thought 8th edition was lethal wait until you see the deaths in 9th

 

So far it appears GW is closing all the loopholes and removing all the tricks players used to keep units alive

[Wispy]

the character targetting stuff - seems like intent is to bring back 5th edition feel of embedding Independent Characters in units, but language is all ass backwards

[PeteySödes]

It’s going to be crazy. The vehicle stuff and tie up mechanics alone are going to change the competitive play drastically. They were kinda “feels bad” mechanics imo anyways so I’m cautiously pleased.

[Chazzmos]

I'm really excited about this edition, which probably a signal to reign it in a bit... I like the feel of a ruleset and how well the intent comes through.

Things I like so far are:

• Vehicles, monsters, and dreadnoughts should be able to turn and try to fire on things close to them. They're big machines of war. An infantry with an ork in their grill wouldn't be trying to use a lasgun to defend themselves, but a dreadnought would use a flamer or an assault cannon.
• Characters who are behind enemy lines with nothing around them should be able to be shot at even when they're not the closest target.  They should be protected from being targeted amongst the maelstrom, but not when it just looks ridiculous.
• Terrain should do something and block line of sight.  I like to imagine the table is not static, models use cover, hide, and take up positions.  I like the rules reflecting this.  True LOS is simple from a rules writing perspective, but I don't think works quite as well in practice.

[Dark Shepherd]

Dont forget our strat that lets a non character unit heroically intervene, cos our opponents sure will :)

 

Even with the Community reply, and their standard of accuracy, theres still a big chance falling back is an attempt now eg leadership style test or roll for mortal wounds/models destroyed. Im still hoping for a 1 point strat but thats a hail mary

[Valerian]

Simon just confirmed that 3 models is just the minimum size for a unit of Bladeguard Veterans; he suggested taking 5 in a unit to ride in an Impulsor along with Ragnar.

 

Those of you that have been making your own Bladeguard Veterans, might as well go ahead and build up a couple more to fill out the Pack a bit more.

[HvitrValdyr]

Simon just confirmed that 3 models is just the minimum size for a unit of Bladeguard Veterans; he suggested taking 5 in a unit to ride in an Impulsor along with Ragnar.

Those of you that have been making your own Bladeguard Veterans, might as well go ahead and build up a couple more to fill out the Pack a bit more.

Added to the conversion list.

[Lord Blackwood]

Im not sure if I wanna load up 5 , maybe 4 so i have room for 2 characters 

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I'm waiting to see if Axes are an option for the full kit whenever it is released. Good to hear that the minimum squad size is five though.

[C0deb1ue]

I'm waiting to see if Axes are an option for the full kit whenever it is released. Good to hear that the minimum squad size is five though.

Same... not particularly fussed about a bunch of Mastercrafted power swords that ignore our chapter tactic anyway. Maybe if they have some sort of useful combat application?

 

But they need more options

[Valerian]

 

I'm waiting to see if Axes are an option for the full kit whenever it is released. Good to hear that the minimum squad size is five though.

Same... not particularly fussed about a bunch of Mastercrafted power swords that ignore our chapter tactic anyway. Maybe if they have some sort of useful combat application?

But they need more options

Ignore our Chapter Tactic?

Good to hear that the minimum squad size is five though.

Minimum squad size is three, but with ability to add to that, probably up to 6, like Aggresssors.