9th Ed. Wishlist?

[domsto]

 

you’re no more forced to bring everything now, than you were forced to leave everything before this.

Some guns are better, but tbh in the hands of guardsmen they’re only moderately better so trying to balance them against each other via points is silly and stupid.

 

Your arguments would be correct if the Infantry Squad didn't got up in points, but they did. So to compensate for this you have to bring a Special Weapon, a Heavy Weapon, a Pistol and Melee upgrade on the Sarge and so on...

or to make my Standpoint a bit more clear, i guess everybody can agree that a barebones Infantry Squad isn't worth 60 points. It wasn't even worth 55 points to begin with but that's a different topic.

 

Also why is trying to balance with points stupid?

Isn't that what's points are for?

Yes you are correct that Guard overall is over costed for what it can do, but this is a Issue GW created by costing all the Weapons we share with Space Marines the same for Guard and Marines.

[sairence]

It's the balance dataslate. Nothing more, nothing less. It's a quick patch, with an expected shelf life of three months.

 

I wouldn't read too much more into it, especially not long term. There's some stuff there that might survive a new Codex, and some that won't. But either way, there's really no need to consider the possible long term implication of patch rules for an outdated Codex. Certainly no one's written anyone into a corner, because anything on there can be rolled back in the next quarterly update.

[domsto]

Well quess we can wishlist a bit longer.

Folling the new Psycich Awakening Bansheet, Guard is unlikely to get a Codex in 2022:(

[sairence]

It said the exact same January 2023 date for all supplements, all with the proviso that they can be superceeded by a Codex release. Don't read too much into it.

 

My expectaction at this stage is Knights/Chaos Knights, followed by CSM. Then we have Guard and Demons left and I don't think they'll do Demons right after CSM, because that would be 3 chaos books in a row. It's not good sales practise.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

you’re no more forced to bring everything now, than you were forced to leave everything before this.

Some guns are better, but tbh in the hands of guardsmen they’re only moderately better so trying to balance them against each other via points is silly and stupid.

 

 

Your arguments would be correct if the Infantry Squad didn't got up in points, but they did. So to compensate for this you have to bring a Special Weapon, a Heavy Weapon, a Pistol and Melee upgrade on the Sarge and so on...

or to make my Standpoint a bit more clear, i guess everybody can agree that a barebones Infantry Squad isn't worth 60 points. It wasn't even worth 55 points to begin with but that's a different topic.

 

Also why is trying to balance with points stupid?

Isn't that what's points are for?

Yes you are correct that Guard overall is over costed for what it can do, but this is a Issue GW created by costing all the Weapons we share with Space Marines the same for Guard and Marines.

again before this you were forced just as much to take a barebones squad, as you are now forced to take full upgrades.

If you want to take barebones do it. Just like I took upgrades before even though it wasn’t worth it.

 

As for balancing by points, maybe it’s not stupid per se, but the way they do it is stupid.

A lascannon is 1 shot max damage of 6

A HB is 3 shots, max damage of 6

Both have equal chance of missing as they do hitting each of their shots, so why is the lascannon so many more points?

The only stat in their stat line that makes a real difference is AP, but that doesn’t matter at all if you role 1-3 or 6 with either weapon to hit. So it only matters if you role 4 or 5 to hit.

 

And while lascannon is *technically* better than the autocannon or HB, against armor, it’s worse than both against hoards or heavy infantry.

In a unit with a 50% accuracy rate, and only 2 dice results that make AP matter in comparing the effectiveness of two weapons, trying to balance weapons points wise is stupid, especially when those weapons theoretically fill different roles.

Against a ‘bid swarm the HB is hands down better than the lascannon, yet the lascannon has a premium cost.

 

I was going to give the example of trying to balance the missile launcher against the autocannon since the both fill a very similar intended role, but even that would be weird because it also fills a similar intended role as the HB.

 

The best HWT option to balance the lascannon against would be the AC…but I’m not so sure that would make much sense either.

It’s like trying to say a hammer is a better tool than a wrench Nd selling the hammer for a higher price.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[domsto]

It said the exact same January 2023 date for all supplements, all with the proviso that they can be superceeded by a Codex release. Don't read too much into it.

 

My expectaction at this stage is Knights/Chaos Knights, followed by CSM. Then we have Guard and Demons left and I don't think they'll do Demons right after CSM, because that would be 3 chaos books in a row. It's not good sales practise.

Well i wouldn't be too optimistic

 

I would assume that the new Horus Heresy Edition will also come out this Year before the Guard Codex, there are also Rumours that a Space Marine Codex 2.0 will come shortly after the CSM. And don't forget Squats, from a business point of View Squats will sell better as Guard and might be higher in the Priority List. 

And the Fact that we got a second Round of big Buffs in the Balanced Datasheet is for me a big indicator that our Codex isn't coming anytime soon.

[domsto]

 

again before this you were forced just as much to take a barebones squad, as you are now forced to take full upgrades.

If you want to take barebones do it. Just like I took upgrades before even though it wasn’t worth it.

This Problem could have been solved absurdly easy.

Just lower the Points cost for the Infantry squad

a 10 Model Unit T3/5+sv ws/bs +4 with a s3/0/1 Gun isn't worth anywhere near the 55points before this newest "buff"

Also maybe they should have lower the Points for the Weapons. As you say Guard is a Horde Army, but with 60points per Squad you don't get anywhere near as much Squads as you need in an 2000p List.

Maybe GW wants to push Conscripts, i don't know

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

 

again before this you were forced just as much to take a barebones squad, as you are now forced to take full upgrades.

If you want to take barebones do it. Just like I took upgrades before even though it wasn’t worth it.

This Problem could have been solved absurdly easy.

Just lower the Points cost for the Infantry squad

a 10 Model Unit T3/5+sv ws/bs +4 with a s3/0/1 Gun isn't worth anywhere near the 55points before this newest "buff"

Also maybe they should have lower the Points for the Weapons. As you say Guard is a Horde Army, but with 60points per Squad you don't get anywhere near as much Squads as you need in an 2000p List.

Maybe GW wants to push Conscripts, i don't know

they have a weird thing for multiples of 5 in pts costs right now, so you’d have a bunch of 5pt weapons that have vastly different capabilities even within similar niches. Bringing me back around to the idea that trying to balance weapons in a bad BS unit by points is kinda silly.

[sairence]

Been thinking a bit more about what would help one of our main issues, which is durability when contesting midfield objectives.

 

So what I figured would be nice is this:

1. Vehicles count as 3 models for holding objectives

2. Vehicles instead count as 5 models when they have 10 or more wounds. Maybe count as 10 when then have more then 20 wounds.

3. Transports that have a unit with obsec embarked in them, count as obsec as well.

4. Give back firing decks.

 

This way your mechanised units can meaningfully contribute to the objective game without being denied by a single cultist putting his big toe on an objective, while also still contributing somewhat to your damage output.

[OldWherewolf]

Been thinking a bit more about what would help one of our main issues, which is durability when contesting midfield objectives.

 

So what I figured would be nice is this:

1. Vehicles count as 3 models for holding objectives

2. Vehicles instead count as 5 models when they have 10 or more wounds. Maybe count as 10 when then have more then 20 wounds.

3. Transports that have a unit with obsec embarked in them, count as obsec as well.

4. Give back firing decks.

 

This way your mechanised units can meaningfully contribute to the objective game without being denied by a single cultist putting his big toe on an objective, while also still contributing somewhat to your damage output.

Love this!  This is why I want to make Chimeras 9W as well.

 

If the Chimera was cheaper and/or had a bit more durability (like -1TW or Ramshackle), then with these rules, we'd be able to put 19 wounds (9 durable, 10 non-durable, but only 1 Force Org Slot for us, less with Platoons) on an objective for 120-130 points, and have enough firepower on the objective to punish those who 'toe in', but we'd still be ObSec.  It would also force a redirection of anti-tank firepower onto the chimera and away from the LRBTs. 

 

Yes, an opponent can kill both units, but that means exposing 2+ units to return fire (one to kill the tank, another to kill the 10-man infantry squad that popped out). 

 

At 9W, the Chimera doesn't degrade, so if it's not killed, it's a ObSec model within striking range of opponent's objectives.  It opens up sooo many possibilities.

[Diagramdude]

A Send In The Next Wave mechanic would be cool for Guard, fluff wise representing the endless tide of men and machinery marching towards the front. To make it playable, make Guard reinforcement points count as double or have some sort of discount mechanic. Like you could put 400 points out of 2000 into reinforcements, but include an extra 600 points worth of units in your list that can’t arrive until turn 2, or 800 points that can’t arrive until turn 3.

 

You likely wouldn’t have an overwhelming amount of models on the table at any one time as units will die before the next waves come in. But you would have the general impression of massively outnumbering the foe.

[MrKoolPants]

Regimental Doctrines with special rules as follows:

 

1) Armoured Company

“Wall of Steel”

<Armoured Company> VEHICLES are -1 to wound when within 3” of two other <Armoured Company> VEHICLES. Warlord must be VEHICLE.

 

2) Guns of the Emperor

“Pound them to Dust”

<Guns of the Emperor> BASILISK, WYVERN, HYDRA, and MANTICORE can shoot twice if they did not move in the previous movement phase. Warlord must be VEHICLE.

 

3) Grizzled Veterans

“Sir, I’m not quite dead… yet”

<Grizzled Veteran> INFANTRY always count as in cover; if in cover are -1 to hit; get Reanimation Protocols -style rule where INFANTRY units regain wounds/models. Warlord must be INFANTRY.

 

4) Faithful & Penitent

“Thirst for Salvation”

<Faithful & Penitent> Units gain ZEALOT, a 5++, and re-roll 1s to hit if they did not move in the previous movement phase. Warlord may not carry a ranged weapon.

[domsto]

So another totaly new Codex announced, while Guard wasn't even mentioned...

So we have:

Knights

CSM

Squats

World Eaters

All before Guard

[duz_]

We can only hope that's because IG is getting a very big shot in the arm! Maybe we'll see more on Friday?

 

However this is not the thread to discuss codex release order and timelines.

[Emperor Ming]

Maybe points decreases in upcoming update

[The Pounder]

Maybe points decreases in upcoming update^_^

 

That’s what I’m hoping too!

 

On the positive side at least the pts updates will be free. Also we’ll have our faction specific secondary objectives in the new Chapter Approved book.

 

Guard were mentioned right at the end and they assured us it was coming.

 

Not what I was wanting to hear but it’s something. I’ll take whatever I can get at this point.

[WarriorFish]

I'm not surprised, GW have been careful with announcements for some time now they don't like to say anything until close to the release. I expected Guard to be later with all we've heard from rumours etc and this is as good a proof as we'll get at this stage I reckon. As duz says hopefully this means some serious love is in the works, we'll have to wait and see as is ever the case - everyone gets a turn eventually

[sairence]

The most important thing for us, based on pure conjecture and that one image:

 

BATTLE BEARS

Edited May 5, 2022 by sairence

[Timelierentree8]

Astra Militarum Infantry, Conscripts and Veterans become troop choices and gain CORE, and make the Officer Voice of command affect more units if they order CORE units.

 

Commissars should become a staple in Astra Militarum Detachments with a rule like: “Each detachment that contains only Astra Militarum units (excluding Agents of the Imperium) may include a commissar or Lord commissar without taking up an Elite or HQ slot respectively.

 

They should also beef up their execution ability to be like orders or chants. In the command phase execute a model within 6” to give that unit:

 

Immunity to moral until your next command phase

Re-roll 1s to hit in the next fight phase

If the unit advances in the movement phase, it does not roll, and just adds 6” to its move.

[Plague _Lord]

Astra Militarum Infantry, Conscripts and Veterans become troop choices and gain CORE, and make the Officer Voice of command affect more units if they order CORE units.

 

Commissars should become a staple in Astra Militarum Detachments with a rule like: “Each detachment that contains only Astra Militarum units (excluding Agents of the Imperium) may include a commissar or Lord commissar without taking up an Elite or HQ slot respectively.

 

They should also beef up their execution ability to be like orders or chants. In the command phase execute a model within 6” to give that unit:

 

Immunity to moral until your next command phase

Re-roll 1s to hit in the next fight phase

If the unit advances in the movement phase, it does not roll, and just adds 6” to its move.

 

 

This would be similiar to what commissars did in the DoW games - after they found someone wanting the squad not only got immunity to morale but also a short buff to shooting. I would like to see this but please, no more rerolls. Let it be +1 to hit or ignore minuses to hit.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Maybe like a command vehicle upgrade that allows an officer inside of a dedicated transport to give orders to other vehicles, or units inside dedicated transports.

[Shamansky]

Maybe like a command vehicle upgrade that allows an officer inside of a dedicated transport to give orders to other vehicles, or units inside dedicated transports.

Or make a 'Mobile HQ Chimera/Taurox' a Senior Officer's 'upgrade' along with the Command squad.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1. kasrkin get access to taurox prime

2. an expanded scion range

3. for the rogal dorn to actually be good.

[Emperor Ming]

I can see your 3rd point being true as its the new model

Cant see any new scion stuff, since everything's already been leaked, and it wouldn't make sense for them to get access to the taurox prime

Happy to be wrong thou

 

[jarms48]

1 hour ago, Emperor Ming said:

I can see your 3rd point being true as its the new model

Cant see any new scion stuff, since everything's already been leaked, and it wouldn't make sense for them to get access to the taurox prime

Happy to be wrong thou

 

Not everything there’s still the Dorn. Potentially also new Roughriders or plastic Deathriders.