New Firstborn Terminators [Rumour]

[Orange Knight]

I will hold my hands up and say that I have been more vehement than I normally am in this topic.

 

To clarify, I am not specifically a Primaris player. I do have a large Horus Heresy force that I have enjoyed playing more than my 40k armies in the last few months.

 

I have jumped onto Primaris in 40k precisely because it's the only Astartes line that is being supported in the main setting. My desire to see a bunch of the older units be moved to legends doesn't come from a place of hate for the older models - I just want to see the faction get tidied up! It's an absolute bloated mess, and GW are clearly worried that carte-blanche compatability of all the units across both ranges could lead to some unforseen shenanigans, so the two are kept at a distance artificially.

 

I don't want this mess to be compounded further. We're about to get a bunch of new Primaris units in the coming months, so the codex will only grow in size. 

 

Either cull the Classic line, or seperate it into a different book, or consolidate it into a few key units that have full compatability with the Primaris. Whatever option they pick from these is better than what GW are doing now. As things stand it's to the benefit of no one.

[Captain Idaho]

Well moving on... if a new Terminator Squad comes out let's think about what weapons they likely will come with. 

 

Terminators have to be carrying Storm Bolters right? Or at least weapons that look the same.

 

Power fists makes sense. It's another Terminator staple.

 

There could be room for large double barrelled weapons that can replace Storm Bolters mind. Massed Volkite?

[KnightofSigismund]

Valrak is there any ETA on the video you’re doing or any more information you can give? I don’t want absolute specifics etc just maybe anything more that doesn’t mess up your sources career. 

[Orange Knight]

I hope that each one has a heavy weapon and a power fist.

 

And perhaps they could trade both for a massive, dual handed Thunder Hammer - sacrificing ranged firepower for a big boost in combat damage.

 

Perhaps the heavy weapon options could be Assault Cannons or Plasma Cannons, and the Thunder Hammer could be some fearsome Damage 4 weapon.

[Guest]

Oh weapons wise?

 

Storm Bolt Rifles? Heavy Onslaught Cannon? Neo Volkite?

 

Or we might get the traditional loadouts?

 

They could surprise us completely and make Terminator Squads like Deathwing all the options for a mix. I can see the box being with all options I just hope its not limited like the Chaos ones are.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I'd expect limited like the Chaos one. That is the direction they're going, but I would be glad if they reversed that trend.

[Orange Knight]

Well, if they are indeed a Primaris unit I would expect them all to share the same wargear. 

 

It would be nice if Terminators lived up to their reputation, and each had an equal level of esoteric and powerful wargear.

[Nephaston]

If we're trying to match the old loadout as close as possible while still going for cawl pattern gear we could see marine-portable onslaught gatling, plasma incinerator (the redemptor one is called macro plasma incinerator after all), a Pyre Cannon™ the pyre blasters bigger brother, a Neo-Volkite cannon perhaps, Accelarator autocannon, twinned perhaps, Multi melta is always welcome.

 

What I wonder if the basics; the Storm Bolter, the Power Fist, and by extension the lightning claws will remain as is or if they will have twinned rifles and fists like Tor Garadon for maximum overkill.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

4 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

If we're trying to match the old loadout as close as possible while still going for cawl pattern gear we could see marine-portable onslaught gatling, plasma incinerator (the redemptor one is called macro plasma incinerator after all),

 

The vanilla Plasma Incinerator already exists, along with Assault and Heavy versions. The Hellblasters say hi.

[Captain Idaho]

If they're just Firstborn resculpts, then surely they'll be just Storm Bolters and the like...

 

I just realised something. We haven't had Space Hulk in ages. This might be tied to another version of it.

[Slave to Darkness]

1 hour ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

Here’s my issue… is basically the same fraters here that voice the same issues time and time again religiously every time they get the chance, derailing these threads. To me that’s immature and not healthy discussion. Believe me when I say I know how you feel and don’t need to be constantly reminded. GW is not going to bow down to what you want, so it just seems it’d be more constructive to learn how to accept the change and move on. It’d be greatly appreciated - believe me.

Tbh, my stance on Primaris has shifted a bit, the minis themselves are fine, they dont look like they are squatting and the detail is good. Not a fan of the basic helmet style but thats easily changed. Not a fan of certain unit types aesthetically (jump pack heavy weapons just feels odd), and the not terminators (Aggressors?) dont do anything for me, Phobos stuff looks great apart from the John Cena shorts but marines have been wearing flares for 30 years so I cant complain over their trouser fashion.

The main thing that bugged me was the scale jump, didnt look right alongside the FB stuff. The scale is an issue I also had with the HH Mk6, I bought some for a 1st ed style Legion of the Damned squad  but they are huge next to Centurious so I ended up starting a 1st ed Blood Drinkers army, but thats something I would have done anyway as I love the RTB01 sculpts and I have always said if they recut Mk6 in plastic I would build the army I never had as a kid, and forge world resin was way too expensive to make it a viable project. The only reason I have not moved over to Primaris is because I dont want to start ANOTHER marine army just because of the scale (if I ever do move to Primaris, I have always said it would be Imperial Fists or White Consuls). Im the same with Chaos Marines, I have not bought anything since they bumped the scale up because it wont look right with the armies I already have, so Im finishing off my old scale armies before I move onto new kits.

 

The only thing I still dislike about them is the way they were written into the lore 'oh these guys have always been here', but the lore has been hit and miss over the years, not as bad as changing the lore for the 13th Black Crusade being my biggest lore gripe. If Guilliman came back and decided they need better troops and Cawl said he was around back in the old days and has had experience with the creation of Geneseed etc and they introduced Primaris over time as they have more success and the need for new troop types arises would also tie in with the actual miniature releases. At the moment it feels odd that they have always been there, but the range is incomplete, an in universe realtime progression of the Primaris project alongside actual releases would imho feel more natural. But whats done is done and cant be helped. 

 

 

But as for the Terminators being Primaris or not, as long as they still visually look like OG Terminators without too much conversion work and not Abaddon sized Ill still pick some up for truescale Termies for my Blood Drinkers, the current kits look kinda odd being the same size as a normal marine in Mk6.

[Nephaston]

Oh well, then maybe some other denomination of "big" could be used like magna, grand, or wumbo. Or maybe just a plasma cannon.

[Slave to Darkness]

26 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Well, if they are indeed a Primaris unit I would expect them all to share the same wargear. 

 

It would be nice if Terminators lived up to their reputation, and each had an equal level of esoteric and powerful wargear.

Yeah Wolf Guard can get a bit fruity with their weapons, as can Chaos, Terminators are supposed to be the best of the best, their weapon options should show that, at least let them swap storm bolters for combi weapons, they have enough to equip Sternguard and the Codex Astartes recommended squad loadouts have clearly gone out of the window. Could let terminators take some Primaris weapon options maybe? Duel fists with underslung weapons would look good on a suit of TDA. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

They won’t be the size of Abbadon  as he is the clone son of a Primarch.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

They won’t be the size of Abbadon  as he is the clone son of a Primarch.

Not the size but we can hope for the proportions.

[Slave to Darkness]

6 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

If they're just Firstborn resculpts, then surely they'll be just Storm Bolters and the like...

 

I just realised something. We haven't had Space Hulk in ages. This might be tied to another version of it.

If it was Id bite, I missed out the past few times. Even if its not they would be a perfect release for AoO. Nothing is more iconic than a Terminator in a space hulk when it comes to boarding actions. 

[Blindhamster]

For me, terminators were never a huge love of mine because their armour design doesn’t really fit the rest of the marine silhouette, and because indomitus in particular have always had rubbish proportions, I’m aware that from an art perspective they can work, but the models never do, and they would have incredible back problems even with half the art for them.

 

I liked tartaros because they fixed a lot (but not all) the proportion issues.

 

somwthing that took design elements from indomitus and tartaros could be cool for a new armour design.

 

really all comes down to if they go with a new mk of armour or not.

 

interested to see how it all pans out!

 

if they’re a firstborn update, they’ll be armed in the traditional manner, perhaps with a new heavy weapon or sergeant weapon option I think.

 

as a very minor aside, I think the reason some people care about the primaris keyword is some level of OCD, I wouldn’t be surprised if many of us fall on the spectrum to some level honestly, I know I do. Primaris keyword also matters to “primaris” players if they hope to use transports etc. that said, the absolute same is true of firstborn players in terms of transports. The ideal would be the option to have it or not as desired, or removal of the keyword entirely as mentioned (and I suspect to be talked about by @Valrack next week)

Edited January 20, 2023 by Blindhamster

[Guest]

I am not sure its an elephant in the room scenario... But we or maybe just me do we think we might see Toads style Terminators?

[Marshal Reinhard]

My favourite dreadnought bar none is the Contemptor. I have exactly 0 of them in my crusade which is all primaris, because i feel it wouldn't fit in. Being a dreadnought transport is not the issue. 

 

I also dont have any tracked marine vehicles, even though I was mightily tempted by the new kratos, because it wouldn't fit in with my repulsor fleet. 

 

Not sure I would have gotten the BT castellan if he hadn't been Bt specific as well as a callback to legendary blanche art. Not sure if this counts as ocd, but I have a desire to keep my force 'pure'?

[Guest]

Just now, Marshal Reinhard said:

My favourite dreadnought bar none is the Contemptor. I have exactly 0 of them in my crusade which is all primaris, because i feel it wouldn't fit in. Being a dreadnought transport is not the issue. 

 

I also dont have any tracked marine vehicles, even though I was mightily tempted by the new kratos, because it wouldn't fit in with my repulsor fleet. 

 

Not sure I would have gotten the BT castellan if he hadn't been Bt specific as well as a callback to legendary blanche art. Not sure if this counts as ocd, but I have a desire to keep my force 'pure'?

You know this summons how I feel up so much.

 

I love Contemptors, Leviathans etc... I was so tempted by that Kratos.

 

I am not against firstborn or anything silly like that its the proportions of the Primaris.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

I'm actually in a similar boat but from the other direction. I've quite liked the Primaris Crusaders and all of our new character sculpts (barring some little tweaks and gripes about the EC). I also like Bladeguard quite a bit. However, aside from a small foot force of those characters and squads I'm reluctant to pull the trigger on Primaris because I can't use Land Raiders, and because I'm a huge fan of my super blinged out BT dreadnoughts. I like my BT track vehicles too, and it just can't all work together in a way that is satisfying on the table. I really want to be able to keep my old box tanks, use the new marine stats, and have a classic army feel with some updated models in it. But it just looks and feels weird.

 

As for Terminators though. I've had great luck with them lately. Aside from big blobs of Word barer Possessed impacting them in melee, they've been consistently tanky and killy for their points. I don't really think they need any sort of rules glow up aside from maybe not suffering the hit penalty on moving and firing heavy weapons, and potentially not suffering the penalty for using power fists? But even with those penalties they're perfectly good. 

 

I also play Custodes, and I don't think upping Marine stats a bit would be a good thing, especially if we consider the cost and how it crowds out things like DG and Custodes. Unless entire ranges get reworked to spread out stats/abilities better, we're kind of stuck where we're at.

[Karhedron]

42 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

I liked tartaros because they fixed a lot (but not all) the proportion issues.

 

That reminds me of some ideas I was tossing about a couple of years ago. Mk10 armour takes several design cues from the Mk4 armour as does Tartaros armour. I can imagine Primaris Terminators as looking less like Gravis and more like bulked up Tartaros armour.

 

[phandaal]

According to Valrak, the new Terminators are a resculpt of the existing Terminator aesthetic.

 

So I would expect something in line with a better-proportioned version of the Terminators from Space Marine Heroes.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

"… also play Custodes, and I don't think upping Marine stats a bit would be a good thing, especially if we consider the cost and how it crowds out things like DG and Custodes. Unless entire ranges get reworked to spread out stats/abilities better, we're kind of stuck where we're at."

 

What about Gravis armored units? Do you propose they be T4?

[Blindhamster]

16 minutes ago, phandaal said:

According to Valrak, the new Terminators are a resculpt of the existing Terminator aesthetic.

 

So I would expect something in line with a better-proportioned version of the Terminators from Space Marine Heroes.

 

if proportions ended up more like the deathwing game, I could get down for that.

 

Though, as already mentioned, I'm not a huge terminator fan in the first place lol.

 

for me, I really liked the armour design of this fan art. I disliked the design of the guns, but something like this would suit me better regardless of keywords.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Blindhamster