New Firstborn Terminators [Rumour]

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

 

if proportions ended up more like the deathwing game, I could get down for that.

 

 

Though, as already mentioned, I'm not a huge terminator fan in the first place lol.

 

for me, I really liked the armour design of this fan art. I disliked the design of the guns, but something like this would suit me better regardless of keywords.

 

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I think we can all agree we just want good proportions.

 

Lets just forget this stupid Primaris vs Firstborn issue and be grateful we are getting new Terminators.

[Blindhamster]

Well said! We all have preferences and they’re all fine.

[mel_danes]

On 1/19/2023 at 11:29 AM, Sargeant Centurion said:

Im sorry for go a bit off topic but:
Box Dreads have knees, the point its the legs are modeled really straight and its hard to notice, but under some look it made clear where it is.

Besides that, maybe at the end, it will be primaris terminators, but if i can use them as FB terminators with no/minor changes, still cool for me. 

 

Correct. The boxnought has always had knees. My primitive animation is based on that fact.

 

https://youtube.com/watch?v=UsSia3cM4c4&feature=shares

Edited January 20, 2023 by mel_danes

[Sergeant Centurion]

10 minutes ago, mel_danes said:

 

Correct. The boxnought had always had knees. My primitive animation is based on that fact.

 

https://youtube.com/watch?v=UsSia3cM4c4&feature=shares

Awesome animation brother! 

[WrathOfTheLion]

I suspect the distinction will go away, which will be great for the game and community.

 

Drop pod primaris would be quite fun.

[Emperor Ming]

14 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

I suspect the distinction will go away, which will be great for the game and community.

 

Drop pod primaris would be quite fun.

Primaris land raiders and drop pods will come eventually

[WARMASTER_]

2 hours ago, Brother Captain Arkley said:

 

I think we can all agree we just want good proportions.

 

Lets just forget this stupid Primaris vs Firstborn issue and be grateful we are getting new Terminators.

Exactly! I think we’ll get the exact proportions of the SM Heroes terminators and I’m more than ok with that they were beautiful models! Especially these two below…

 

 

 

As someone who’s also realised that my lore preferences and hobby endeavours are firmly within a 40K universe before the 8th edition changes [More specifically 3rd edition] I personally can’t wait to see if they are faithful updates but I’ll be buying many boxes if so 

Edited January 20, 2023 by WARMASTER_

[Blindhamster]

Proportions are still off on those as far as I’m concerned, wouldn’t be a purchase for me, but if others are happy that’s nice still. 
 

I think they could do a better proportioned indomitus suit though, just looking at the deathwing game models, you can see their torso is longer and arms are at actual arm position. That would be my hope.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Tartaros terminators are properly proportioned if you wanna kit bash.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

6 hours ago, BLACK BLΠFLY said:

"… also play Custodes, and I don't think upping Marine stats a bit would be a good thing, especially if we consider the cost and how it crowds out things like DG and Custodes. Unless entire ranges get reworked to spread out stats/abilities better, we're kind of stuck where we're at."

 

What about Gravis armored units? Do you propose they be T4?

 

 

I personally propose they stop existing altogether, as I think they're goofy. But from a purely balance perspective, T5 and W3 with a 3+ and no native invuln is fine. DG Terminators are T5 W3 and a 2+/4++ with damage reduction which is brutal but limited by the army itself. Custodes Terminators are T5 W4 and a 2+/4++ without damage reduction, but with lots of tools at their disposal and other tricks that let them stay a step ahead. Cranking standard Terminators up to T5 with their current stats, let alone W4 and a 4++, is ridiculous.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Captain Idaho
Unnecessary comment removed

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Gravis armored Space Marines defy your stance and they can be buffed as well. GW is not going to discontinue them either. There are also Centurions which are T5 as well, so it’s not like Gravis armor is a one off case.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Gravis are exactly what I said above. T5 and W3 with a 3+ and no native invuln. They don't actually compare favorably to Terminators as a tough unit, even with buffs, which are temporary and limited. So balance wise they're fine.

 

Centurions are a better go at it, but now you're running into the original issue, cost. In order to have a unit like a Centurion or a Custodes Terminator you have to pay their prices. That means more points and smaller units. Obliterators are another example of this in practice. And so I said that upping Terminators to the Custodes/Centurion/whatever level is likely not going to be worth the cost. T5, 3 or more wounds, and a native invuln is pricy, and Deathguard are about as lean and mean as its possible to be when rocking those numbers.

 

Now. If the question is 'Do I think GW is stupid enough to actually do this?' Yes. I sure do. But if they do it's going to cause mass changes in every codex released after that stat line drops, as it isn't workable otherwise. If they want to avoid that then Terminators will stay T4 and 3 wounds.

[Marshal Reinhard]

9 hours ago, WARMASTER_ said:

Exactly! I think we’ll get the exact proportions of the SM Heroes terminators and I’m more than ok with that they were beautiful models! Especially these two below…

 

 

 

As someone who’s also realised that my lore preferences and hobby endeavours are firmly within a 40K universe before the 8th edition changes [More specifically 3rd edition] I personally can’t wait to see if they are faithful updates but I’ll be buying many boxes if so 

 

*snipped images*

Since I don't own these, it's fair to say that more of the same would simply share the same fate.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Marshal Reinhard

[WARMASTER_]

12 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Since I don't own these, it's fair to say that more of the same would simply share the same fate.

Hey man you do you, as a veteran SM player I can’t think of much better than a new multipart kit of these and Tactical’s

 

[Orange Knight]

I wouldn't have an issue with these new Terminators having high stats and costing more.

 

An Aggressors it T5 with 3 wounds and 3 attacks and costs 30 points.

 

A new Primaris Terminator with T5, 4 Wounds and a 2+ 4++ could be 40-50 points. They would just need weapons that are powerful enough to cause significant damage to be worthwhile. No point simply improving the statline if they don't boost the wargear ad well.

[Marshal Reinhard]

2 hours ago, WARMASTER_ said:

Hey man you do you, as a veteran SM player I can’t think of much better than a new multipart kit of these and Tactical’s

 

I can: updated designs and proportions that work better. I'm sorry to keep mentioning Abbadon, but he is proof that it is, in fact, possible.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Marshal Reinhard

[Orange Knight]

I would like to add that the Terminators from the SM Heroes set are nicer than the existing plastic kit from GW, but aren't particularly great or different enough. I certainly wouldn't even glance at them twice if that's what GW released.

 

I actually think the Aggressors are a nicer model with better proportions, but neither is perfect:

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Orange Knight

[Subtleknife]

I just hope their shoulders aren't up by their ears like the Chaos Terminators - I don't get how they get abaddon with shoulders below the ears yet chaos terminators have their arms up by their ears. I just hope they don't make the same mistake.

[Captain Idaho]

I've always thought Aggressors are awful looking so any new Terminators would easily look better than them. I prefer old Terminators to Aggressors!

 

@Orange Knight The rumours are the Terminators are Firstborn so let's keep it on topic and talk about Firstborn stats not potential Primaris stats.

 

With regards to the rumours; I think even larger Terminators will keep T4 and likely 4 wounds. After all, they'd have to be bigger than a Custodes to warrant similar stats.

 

Maybe 4 wounds, but they likely won't be as big as Centurions surely, so I don't think we'll see a change.

 

Wonder if this heralds new Chaos Terminators? I mean, it's not impossible GW can replace a boxed set so cynically after everyone buying them.

[Captain Idaho]

On 1/18/2023 at 5:54 PM, WARMASTER_ said:

So Valrak has just posted a video with said rumour and to be fair apart from a few things he’s never really wrong 

Im honestly super happy about the news! Being a grumpy old mn [By which I mean early 30’s in my case] all I really ever wanted from SM’s was the OG marines at a better scale 

 

If true do we think we’ll see more kits Tactical’s etc? personally I’d say yes,I think it’s a very smart business move + Might win back a lot of goodwill with the older fans 

 

Original post and title of the thread are quite clear.

 

Let's not be melodramatic - if someone goes into the Primaris rumours thread and starts talking about Firstborn rumours it is clearly off topic and derailing the thread.

 

If you'd like to make a topic wishlisting potential Terminator rules for Primaris, sure go ahead. It'll likely be a fun topic as it would definitely have less restrictions on "traditional" Terminator weapons.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

If they're T5 and W4 with a 2+/4++ you're looking at a points cost of 60ish, not 40. Custodes with spears are 45 and they have 3 attacks and 3 wounds. Aggressors are T5 and W3 with a 3+ and no invuln and they're 30 after the big points drop. If their weaponry is better than storm bolters and power fists you'll start to push toward 80 points per model. This is all rough, as GW can be pants on head stupid, but even if they release a busted unit with all the dream qualities anyone could ever want for 30 points, it'll be that way just long enough for people to buy 50 boxes a piece then get nerfed into the ground.

 

I want the models to look good, and want the rules to be good, but I'd like them to drop in a semi stable state that isn't nuked when the next book or FAQ comes out. Am I the only one who remembers that Aggressors could shoot twice?

[WARMASTER_]

23 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Except the other rumors that do say they are primaris. But lets purge the dreaded p word for some's ease of mind...

I mean sure? I’ll go with Valrak’s new sculpts rumour as I don’t play the game much anyway the Primaris keyword means nothing to me + when I do play it’s previous editions with friends but let’s be honest Valrak is seldom wrong about rumours these days or someone on the forum who’s friend has seen a data sheet says they’re Primaris 

 

If they have the Primaris keyword but are just updated sculpts I don’t think that’s easing minds that’s surely just the best of both worlds for both camps of the divide??
 

We get updated Firstborn sculpts and players who like Primaris get some new Terminators [which have now forgot how to ride in Land Raiders after 10k years ]

Edited January 21, 2023 by WARMASTER_

[Guest]

We know what firstborn Terminators will look like.

 

But what would a Primaris one look like? Toad Terminators? Tartaros on steroids?

 

The simple solution for both sides of the stupid Primaris vs Firstborn is just say they are both. Prmaris for x points.

 

So fed up with the negativity from both sides.

5 minutes ago, WARMASTER_ said:

 

We get updated Firstborn sculpts and players who like Primaris get some new Terminators [which have now forgot how to ride in Land Raiders after 10k years ]

God I really hate the vehicle thing.

[Orange Knight]

I watched the Valrak video and he does say that he heard the Terminators look very similar to the classic design, but that the person who advised him about them hadn't seen the full rules or datasheet.

 

Also, there is a possibility that the spotty rules that have been mentioned are from the 10th edition game and wouldn't be applicable in 9th anyway. The keywords could be changed or scrapped.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah I like the idea of a joint datasheet. Makes sense. They'd have to share rules, weapons and stats for the most part or the Datasheet will likely be 2 pages long.

 

They'd likely be the same new models too.