WH40k game Dante leak

[Vanger]

Finally a properly formulated beam weapon rule.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

"Grandpa, tell us again about how you actually got a couple of games in with Primaris Dante in NINTH Edition..."

 

We few, we happy few...

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Lord Nord

[TempestBlade]

Ummm anyone else notice that Dante has better rules than the Lion does? I feel like they did the Lion dirty…

[Blindhamster]

21 minutes ago, TempestBlade said:

Ummm anyone else notice that Dante has better rules than the Lion does? I feel like they did the Lion dirty…

In what way? The lion would demolish Dante in a fight?

 

Azrael probably beats Dante in a fight too, fewer attacks but causes mortal wounds and reduces armour more and does more base damage. Azrael also provides more cp.

 

I feel like the axe mortalis probably should have been damage 3 tbh, but I do like the perdition pistol rules

Edited April 11, 2023 by Blindhamster

[TempestBlade]

Dante does so much more for a BA army. He’s got the captain aura, chapter master buff, better shooting, still hits like a truck, -1 to hit, gives you a 1 cp and makes a stratagem cost 0 once per game. All that for half of the lions cost. Don’t get me wrong the Lion will destroy him in combat but he doesn’t do a lot for a DA army. Captain and lieutenant auras are nice but not gamebreaking. Just a 2+\4++ and 9 wounds will get killed fast this edition. 

[Carcosa]

What stratagem besides "only in death does duty end" can he use?

[INKS]

Really wanted to see that Axe at 3D... oh well.

[Blindhamster]

2 minutes ago, TempestBlade said:

Dante does so much more for a BA army. He’s got the captain aura, chapter master buff, better shooting, still hits like a truck, -1 to hit, gives you a 1 cp and makes a stratagem cost 0 once per game. All that for half of the lions cost. Don’t get me wrong the Lion will destroy him in combat but he doesn’t do a lot for a DA army. Captain and lieutenant auras are nice but not gamebreaking. Just a 2+\4++ and 9 wounds will get killed fast this edition. 

Azrael is arguably better than both then, so at least you can use both.

 

also, they clearly wanted to have the lion and guilliman be different, guilliman is the leader, lion is the warrior based on their rules.

 

regardless, in both Dante and the lions (and azraels) case, they’ll all be different in a couple months anyway

[Spyros]

It's still hard to swallow that Azrael gets 6A at -4AP 3D+mortals. Dante's 7A -3AP at 2D is nowhere near close...

From one point of view the Axe Mortalis is really no better than a power fist without the -1 hit penalty...

 

To be fair, if I remember correctly, when Dante came out in 2nd edition he was armed with just a power axe, only the pistol was unique. At the same era Azrael did have the unique Sword of Secrets.

 

The damage increase on the pistol is the only consolation, but the beam function is laughable with such a small range...

[Blindhamster]

You can use the pistol in melee tbf, so sure his axe does less, but the pistol is brutal

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, Spyros said:

It's still hard to swallow that Azrael gets 6A at -4AP 3D+mortals. Dante's 7A -3AP at 2D is nowhere near close...

From one point of view the Axe Mortalis is really no better than a power fist without the -1 hit penalty...

 

To be fair, if I remember correctly, when Dante came out in 2nd edition he was armed with just a power axe, only the pistol was unique. At the same era Azrael did have the unique Sword of Secrets.

 

The damage increase on the pistol is the only consolation, but the beam function is laughable with such a small range...

Hamster beat me to it, but the pistol’s real threat will be shooting while in melee, rather than outside of melee.

The BA FB group is full of people crying that he’s too weak.

for some reason a lot of people had an expectation he’d be S/T5

 

 

[Arkangilos]

He also gets the BA special rules and such.

[Blindhamster]

1 minute ago, Arkangilos said:

He also gets the BA special rules and such.

Yeah but azrael gets dark angel ones (which actually nullify the BA ones entirely in this case), kind of a given lol

[Arkangilos]

1 minute ago, Blindhamster said:

Yeah but azrael gets dark angel ones (which actually nullify the BA ones entirely in this case), kind of a given lol

Oh. Well then. At least Azrael will have -1 on the attack to hit roll.

[happyslugger]

He's not as buffed as I would have liked but it is what it is.  Maybe it will all come good in a few months in 10th

[Spagunk]

Personally, I would have liked to see Dante having more of a command presence than being a beatstick. Don't get me wrong, he should still rock in combat but maybe not the best of the best so to speak. However his command should be second to none baring a Primarch. Give him a niche role vs. SpaceMarineChaptermaster9.

Again, just my opinion.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Spagunk

[Arkangilos]

40 minutes ago, Spagunk said:

Personally, I would have liked to see Dante having more of a command presence than being a beatstick. Don't get me wrong, he should still rock in combat but maybe not the best of the best so to speak. However his command should be second to none baring a Primarch. Give him a niche role vs. SpaceMarineChaptermaster9.

Again, just my opinion.

I’m not sure about this, personally. 
 

I think he should be more of an inspiration and close combat beast than a grand strategist. Don’t get me wrong he certainly is great at strategy and stuff, but I don’t recall him being known as the best strategist, as compared to someone like Calgar. He is certainly more inspirational, and certainly he would be close to Calgar, but Sanguinius, his sons, and Dante have been more famous for their inspiring aspect and combat ability rather than the strategic acumen of Guilliman and his sons.

 

He wasn’t even chosen to be Chapter Master because he was the best, but because every other candidate was dead.

 

EDIT

 

Though if what you meant by command presence has to do with inspirational buffing I 100% agree. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Arkangilos

[Sothalor]

In terms of Dante vs The Lion as an army buffing command presence:

 

Dante has led the Blood Angels for over 1,000 years. He's had to guide a Chapter of bloodthirsty rage-machines who are one impulse slip from going full berserker loony, and has managed to retain widespread respect and admiration from a whole lot of people.

 

The Lion led the First Legion for about two centuries. He exiled and alienated Luther, his closest friend and confidante - which ultimately fractures his Legion and destroys his world. His entire leadership style was centered around insular plans and withholding information from his allies and subordinates. His Legion was organized like an abusive cult, isolating members from each other and funneling them into various hierarchies and secret societies that frequently worked at cross-purposes to each other (ref Lion El'Jonson: Lord of the First) At the climax of the Horus Heresy he withdraws into a brooding mood and refuses to engage with any of his Legion command staff to explain what he's doing or why, leaving them totally in the dark and - again - working against each other (ref Dreadwing).

 

Oh yeah, and there was that time he punched off his top Chaplain's head because Nemiel brought up how his orders contradicted the Emperor's command.

 

Just sayin'. 

[Leonaides]

But he did fight the Silent King to a draw, when the Silent King could manipulate time itself to attack/counter him. He also led the 2nd war for armageddon above calgar (so even Calgar thinks he's a better strategist). He doesn't have to be the greatest fighter, but he should have top shelf gear (master artisan weaponry should be better than rack fresh power sword 32), and be a better tactician than any non-primarch. He has more raw experience than ANY other chapter master, and mind built for war.

 

Beware an old man still playing a young man's game and all that.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Wargear damage is all over the place. Custodes axes are still damage 2 and less AP than Dante's, and those things are massive.

 

That bit of lore about Dante fighting the Silent King to a standstill kind of bums me out. GW is so bad at keeping hype for its antagonists. Don't get me wrong, Dante is cool and all that, especially if you like Blood Angels. But he really shouldn't be One V Oning the guy who lead the revult against their gods. 

 

Still, until we see how the other non Primarch characters shake out, he's in a spot of limbo where we really can't gauge how good he is going to be. My gut says he won't be soloing any dreadnoughts without the pistol doing the bulk of the work, but that will depend on them keeping -1 Damage.

[Scribe]

GW lore is not in a place of quality and consistency, especially the studio stuff, where I'm going to worry about my dad beating up someone elses dad.

 

All characters are as effective as the story (and sales) demand, based on the lore.

 

Table top, the rules are all getting nuked in short order.

[Arkangilos]

2 minutes ago, Marshal Valkenhayn said:

 

That bit of lore about Dante fighting the Silent King to a standstill kind of bums me out. GW is so bad at keeping hype for its antagonists. Don't get me wrong, Dante is cool and all that, especially if you like Blood Angels. But he really shouldn't be One V Oning the guy who lead the revult against their gods. 

Yeah, I think it’s pretty consistent across characters. Calgar, Dante, Drago, etc. all suffer from it. 
I think it could be explained that the Silent King has been doing nothing for so long, but the best thing is to just stop having named characters all fighting each other all the time.

[Blindhamster]

I’d actually assume silent king wasn’t going all out, out of some weird respect for sanguinius, whom he apparently met

[jaxom]

5 hours ago, Spyros said:

To be fair, if I remember correctly, when Dante came out in 2nd edition he was armed with just a power axe, only the pistol was unique. At the same era Azrael did have the unique Sword of Secrets.

Yep, the Sword of Secrets was the best (maybe one of the best, don't remember if Gauntlets of Ultramar were swing-last/Init 1 or not) Space Marine close combat weapons for non-Librarians for quite a while. 

[Spagunk]

1 hour ago, Arkangilos said:

 

I think he should be more of an inspiration and close combat beast than a grand strategist. Don’t get me wrong he certainly is great at strategy and stuff, but I don’t recall him being known as the best strategist, as compared to someone like Calgar....

 

 

Didn't Calgar give Dante full planetary command of the 2nd war for Armageddon? I feel like that implies he believes Dante to be a better strategist.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Spagunk