Legends of the Horus Heresy

[Rain]

32 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

Offshoring seems like a lot more work than just exploiting local creative talent desperate to do the job of their dreams for pennies really.

And yeah, there have always been the odd OP forgeworld unit, just like every codex ever written :D 

I of course don’t know whether or not they do this, but I do know for a fact that some companies do this, and actively lie to customers about it. It does end up costing more in many cases, as the work product has to be Frankensteined between foreign and local teams, but the dirty truth is that many people in positions of power in these companies just aren’t that bright.
 

All of that being said, my comment was meant with at least half my tongue in cheek. Hence the cynicism throne and “stoned work from homer” stuff. On balance, I think 40k is *probably* too niche to outsource effectively, but who really knows. Not that outsourcing is the only way to screw the pooch, just a very common and easy way.

[MaximusTL]

While it was true of the indexes as a whole, this list needed some major proof reading. i like to give GW some credit general, but yikes. 

 

some thoughts on the datsheets themselves:

 i like Arcus' rule of getting ignores cover and ignoring indirect fire penalites against the OATH OF MOMENT target, but considering oath of moment is best against big nasty things like daemon primarchs, knights, etc., s6 ap- d2 isn't so great into that.

 

Its hilarious that the Land Raider Achilles, which is built without an assault ramp, has the Assault Ramp rule, while the Spartan, which does have an assault ramp, doesn't get the rule.

 

No land Raider Helios?

 

Whirlwind Scorpius actually looks good.

Honestly, the way i would've handled relic units is to just make them 0-1 per detachment. make them good, but not spammable. I personally think SM 30k tank design is waaaay superior to 40k, and if i want to take a sicaran or a spartan, there shouldn't be any penalty.

[Runefyre]

I have a Land Raider Prometheus from FW that hasn't had rules for a long time now. Really sad that a kit I paid top dollar for isn't supported anymore....

 

 

[MegaVolt87]

9 hours ago, Bradeh said:

As long as you're not seriously abusing strong Heresy/FW models by taking mulitples, what's the problem? If you're having arguments over what you can use in local gaming clubs in casual games I don't know what to say. This 'meta' problem has infected everything.

 

It's not abuse when you need these units to be competitive with CSM. Also worth mentioning, most of these are now FORMER FW units, most are now in plastic and sold on the GW main site, these are as much GW main units like the primaris repulsor as far as I am concerned. But GW has failed to cross sell them properly to 40k by making them legends units instead of mainline units. That's just free money GW is leaving on the table and potential to prop up the flagging 40k firstborn. 

[Interrogator Stobz]

There is really no more need to limit them to 3 as for any other unit.

Once the GeeDub playtesters (Us) figure out broken combos and start abusing them in tournaments GeeDub can use that data to change their points accordingly. 

Just like always.

 

Also, not a Chaos player but Wow GeeDub, throw them a bone.

[BrainFireBob]

Easy money to make them Chaos only, unless they want chaos crippled

[Rain]

4 minutes ago, BrainFireBob said:

Easy money to make them Chaos only, unless they want chaos crippled

Ha, this will never happen. Chaos have been the red headed stepchild of Marine factions ever since the 3.5 Chaos Codex dared be better than the Marine codex of its day.

 

I remember in 5th ed when Contemptor rules were first written, Chaos Contemptors were inexplicably worse than loyalist ones, as they lacked the energy shield. The Chaos Land Raider inexplicably lost the fire control rule of the loyalist one after the 3.5 codex. Chaos was always more melee focused than Vanilla Marines, but never had a native drop pod. It goes on and on.

[Marshal Mittens]

Wow. The Typhon could do 72 damage, or up to 84 if targetting a vehicle. 

[Interrogator Stobz]

But on average will do 6.04 damage to a Heavy type Tank.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Interrogator Stobz

[OttoVonAwesome]

10 hours ago, Runefyre said:

I have a Land Raider Prometheus from FW that hasn't had rules for a long time now. Really sad that a kit I paid top dollar for isn't supported anymore....

 

 

Legends rules are coming later this is just Horus Heresy Legends. I'd be pretty choked if this were it though since I was an early adopter of FW tanks so half my Guard tanks are legends. 

 

I really think the Spartan and Land raider achilles got thier special rules swapped.

[Silas7]

10 hours ago, Dark Legionnare said:

I've never seen a Blackstar in person. It looks a fair deal smaller than a stormeagle, at least going by its size compared to the standard flying base in Google images. Not TOO bad though. I could be completely wrong.

Why not just run it as itself? Curious
 

 

Blackstars have the Deathwatch keyword, can't really run my army as Blood Angels and have the Deathwatch keywords in the same force

[Plaguecaster]

This is  absolutely pathetic 

Can't see any excuse of why they made everything lehend status that involves balance or the like when the entire range of indexes are so overbalancwd with clear advantages and disadvantages for different factions on "normal GW" units. The fw rules themselves seem extremely average compared to the op stuff of indexes with dreads being nerfed 

 

What's even more stupid is the fact after claiming you can still use your miniatures they have now prevented even more stuff from being used by chaos with chaos laser destroyer vindicators no longer being allowed.

Just downright stupid and annoying especially when people try and justify GW's pathetic decisions claiming it is for balance or ease for new players 

The game is already unbalanced as hell and ease of access for new players is an even bigger joke when the custodoe stuff and knight stuff which is mainly in resin still is going to be available. We all know that'll be unbalanced and painful to deal with especially since they have a new plastic knight they want to sell 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Plaguecaster

[spessmarine]

 

 

Par for the course really

 

4 hours ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

I really think the Spartan and Land raider achilles got thier special rules swapped.

 

Plenty of goodness, why does the Cerberus gain Lethal Hits for standing still? It is S16 and twin-linked making that pretty pointless.

Re-roll the damage roll would've been what I'd add.

Edited June 22, 2023 by spessmarine

[Nuriel-666]

15 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Stitchs comment is obviously ridiculous. The original resin versions were made for 40k in the Badab war imperial armours, and 30k was not a separate game until 8th edition. And even then when it was, the rules for these models were fully supported the entire time.

 

How does being remade in plastic make them "made for a different game?"

 

It'd be like old world not supporting blood knights because they got redone in plastic for AoS. Or direwolves. Or whatever else equally silly. 

Funny thing: GW did exactly that in AoS too, when they moved generic Greenskinz into the Legends. After selling AoS Starting Set with vanilla Orcs. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Nuriel-666

[Kastor Krieg]

27 minutes ago, Nuriel-666 said:

Funny thing: GW does exactly that in AoS too, when they moved generic Greenskinz into the Legends. After selling AoS Starting Set with generic Orcs. 

"GW is being awful to all players of all their games, equally. WE FINALLY HAVE BALANCE!"

[Stitch5000]

16 hours ago, caladancid said:

 

How exactly will you use models without power level points in an army that otherwise uses those power level points? 

 

Also don't try now to pretend like you were actually asking for supporting evidence. You got caught not knowing things.

 

Yeah I don;t have an encyclopedic knowledge of previous warcom articles mate... 

I'm absolutely certain now thaough, that y'all are basing your outrage on a throwaway sentence in an year old web feature that was written in reference to a previous version of the game. 

Crack on!

[Nuriel-666]

5 minutes ago, Stitch5000 said:

Yeah I don;t have an encyclopedic knowledge of previous warcom articles mate... 

I'm absolutely certain now thaough, that y'all are basing your outrage on a throwaway sentence in an year old web feature that was written in reference to a previous version of the game. 

Crack on!

Throwaway sentence? Do you know how many people bought HH Starter Set because they wanted to start an 40k army? Well, I don't know either, but I'm absolutely sure that I wasn't the only one. 

[Helycon]

34 minutes ago, Stitch5000 said:

Yeah I don;t have an encyclopedic knowledge of previous warcom articles mate... 

I'm absolutely certain now thaough, that y'all are basing your outrage on a throwaway sentence in an year old web feature that was written in reference to a previous version of the game. 

Crack on!

Definitely disagree with the 'throwaway sentence'. Telling people to buy your product only to invalidate it soon after is very bad form for any company.

 

Money, time and effort was spent to buy and build these models, only for them to be now sit on a shelf. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Helycon

[Marshal Reinhard]

1 hour ago, Nuriel-666 said:

Throwaway sentence? Do you know how many people bought HH Starter Set because they wanted to start an 40k army? Well, I don't know either, but I'm absolutely sure that I wasn't the only one. 

To poke back at this: how many started these 40k armies based on HH starter sets with the intention of making them tournament forces? Certainly some, for sure, but for everyone else, said armies should still be legal. I know, not tournament legal carries a heavy burden in a lot of places, but it shouldn't, and the community is partly at fault here.

[Helycon]

 

13 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

To poke back at this: how many started these 40k armies based on HH starter sets with the intention of making them tournament forces? Certainly some, for sure, but for everyone else, said armies should still be legal. I know, not tournament legal carries a heavy burden in a lot of places, but it shouldn't, and the community is partly at fault here.

Marketing things for a different game system and then simply pulling back is bad form. 

 

Something else I found on WarCom in May 2022:

Quote

With so many options, you can build the tank of your dreams to start blasting your way through the [deluded followers of the Warmaster/mewling lackeys of the Emperor]** in no time. What’s more, you’ll also be able to use the new Sicaran in your games of Warhammer 40,000. It already has a profile, which can be found on Warhammer 40,000: The App, and it can be deployed both by loyalist Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines.

Again, usable, cool looking tank, decent rules. Now Legends. Not even a year. It's just a bunch of feels bads.

[TrawlingCleaner]

4 hours ago, spessmarine said:

 

 

Par for the course really

 

'Tis indeed, it's the same for the Destructor! I suppose it gives it a bit more leg up to be a Dakka boat!

[Marshal Reinhard]

22 minutes ago, Helycon said:

 

Marketing things for a different game system and then simply pulling back is bad form. 

They didn't. It's still legal for 40k. Not just tournaments. Legends are legal for 40k. That's the point. 

 

That big parts of the community refuses to play legends outside of tournaments is largely a community problem.

 

Part of solving said problem is getting the community to accept Legends, which are meant to be accepted.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Marshal Reinhard

[Dont-Be-Haten]

22 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Overall I like some of the rules, particularly for stuff I actually own.

 

Shame I won't be able to use any of it for any of the events I attend, or my gaming group as they want updated and balanced rules.

There needs to be a care/support emoji for this post. 

 

Tough out on this one. You aren't the only one. It's doubled by the fact many players got their first leviathans to play in 40k, and a year later that model is banned from most groups/ways to play. 

 

Legends is a hard no for many in our 40k groups also.

[Stitch5000]

2 hours ago, Nuriel-666 said:

Throwaway sentence? Do you know how many people bought HH Starter Set because they wanted to start an 40k army? Well, I don't know either, but I'm absolutely sure that I wasn't the only one. 

Buying models that are tangentially relevant to a game system that you apparently want to play competitively is always going to work out badly. 

I just don't get it. If you want to play at events or tournaments (the sort of things that preclude the use of these rules, not models - you can just use them as proxies if the whole look of the army you are using is that important) surely you are going to be cycling through armies and models to keep up with something vaguely compatative?

If you are really looking to use a deeply thematic and highly narrative army, why do you really care what can and can;t be used in tournaments?

[Plaguecaster]

So now they updated the manual with points showing just how pathetic this is as not only have all custodes and knights kept their stuff but seems like ALL xenos (eldar included of course) kept their FW units. So the HH, chaos and Mechanicus units are all too op and unbalanced but somehow everything else isn't? They don't even have plastic kits with all of it being resin so even harder for new players to get unlike the actual plastic kits you can buy from any GW or FLGS they now basically banned.

Seriously I would love to see someone try and defend GW's pathetic actions now considering how hypocritical and contradicting they are with certain armies.