Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis

[DuskRaider]

I’m really hoping we see a Mk. IIb Land Raider for this, that’s by far my favorite Land Raider pattern. 

11 hours ago, Matrindur said:

That's the point they wouldn't have been previewed before the initial launch, its only due to the delays that we already got shown so much before the core book was even out. The Dire Wolfs and the two support boxes are the only additional reveals in the book and all three where shown until the start of August where the game was supposed to launch. The next reveal are the Medusa/Basilisk on the 24th August which was likely meant to be after the launch so the start of expansion stuff.

 

For most of their games GW doesn't release any rules before the models are revealed, otherwise you would know what is coming and maybe not buy stuff now. The rules for all that stuff are obviously already finished and there are even special rules in the core book nobody uses which are obviously for future stuff (one rule even mentions another special rule not in the book which is likely about Mechanicum) 

But since nothing except the support boxes were supposed to be revealed for the initial book release they aren't be in the book.

Yeah, I understand that, but they decided to delay the release for whatever reason and in the meantime showed off models that we have no access to nor rules for. Logic would dictate that they release these soon and include rules (which still should have been on the BRB). 
 

IMO, Land Raiders and Spartans are core inclusions and should have been released at launch. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

29 minutes ago, DuskRaider said:

IMO, Land Raiders and Spartans are core inclusions and should have been released at launch. 

 

Ya, being iconic and usefulness aside, anything "expansion" or "supplement" that's fully designed and ready to go at the same time as the base product is purely anti consumer. It's there to get more sales through the rules and to prevent targetted decision making that would lose sales.

 

For example, if I want artillery for solar aux, I can take the rapier and mole launcher. If i load up on the rapiers and the medusa/earthshaker are better, then i need to buy those and decide what I'm going to do with those rapiers. Or the Arvus being the only solar aux transport, but the dracosan is going to come out and completely open up the faction, for way less money.

 

Carving up a complete game is very frustrating.

[Pacific81]

4 hours ago, LameBeard said:

Yeah I might do something like this. But I’m now on the fence with this whole game - I feel like a soap opera cliche of the woman who just keeps going back to her cheating man. Hundreds of pounds and hundreds of painting hours to get a game, when I’ve got several “half way” armies across 3 or more systems already - I have only myself to blame!

 

Haha.. yes I know what you mean. I think there is almost an argument for painting up slowly as a secondary game and coming back in 6-12 months for the 'complete' experience.

 

I'm probably going to do that - just have a quick run through of the new rules and paint up some of the new minis, but I couldn't hang my hobby hat on just Legions at the moment. From the existing Epic community, those few of us, why would you when you have complete systems which are very similar that you could play already?

[apologist]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/27/make-tracks-to-your-local-store-for-this-months-legions-imperialis-coin-and-miniature-double-bill/

 

Free miniature of the month is a entinyated Rhino.

 

...and if you splurge enough, you'll get this in change:

 

I was hoping for an Epic model or stand to turn up as a freebie, so delighted to see this. For future reference, shadowy GW rep, free minis is an excellent way to get me into your shop to spend more money than I want to :D

+++

Edited November 27, 2023 by apologist

[Cleon]

To be honest part of the reason I'm aiming at doing SA first is I'm not interested in a Marine force with all the key units I care about for an epic game either missing from at least the first drop (LR, Spartans, vindicators, whirlwinds, fellblades) or bundled up badly (terminators).

 

If I enjoy the game with the SA then I'll consider fleshing out the marine half of the box when they get round to releasing the rest of the units...

[apologist]

I'm pretty sanguine about the order of release. I understand the frustration of not getting your favourite bits and pieces, but I don't think it's necessarily as cynical as one could assume.

 

Older editions of Epic (e.g. Epic: 40,000) launched entire armies in one feel swoop – but that had twin downsides:

• If you played [insert unreleased army], you were sat there twiddling your thumbs
• If you played the army of the month, you were unlikely to buy it all in one go.

I think the lesson GW learned that it was better to sell smaller amounts to more players, and get them to come back next month with more pocket money. At the risk of living up to my username* I don't think that's particularly predatory.  If anything, this better suits my way of collecting – a box every so often, rather than buying an army in one fell swoop. I'd be extremely surprised if Land Raiders aren't out by the time I've finished painting the starter box :D

 

2 hours ago, DuskRaider said:

I’m really hoping we see a Mk. IIb Land Raider for this, that’s by far my favorite Land Raider pattern. 

[...]

Yeah, I understand that, but they decided to delay the release for whatever reason and in the meantime showed off models that we have no access to nor rules for. Logic would dictate that they release these soon and include rules (which still should have been on the BRB). 
 

IMO, Land Raiders and Spartans are core inclusions and should have been released at launch. 

 

I would also vastly have preferred classic Land Raiders, Vindicators and Whirlwinds in place of (checks notes) Sicarans and Kratos tanks. I think this is GW's way of spreading out sales to nostalgic gamers – again encouraging return visits to their shop. 

 

 

1 hour ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Ya, being iconic and usefulness aside, anything "expansion" or "supplement" that's fully designed and ready to go at the same time as the base product is purely anti consumer. It's there to get more sales through the rules and to prevent targetted decision making that would lose sales.

 

For example, if I want artillery for solar aux, I can take the rapier and mole launcher. If i load up on the rapiers and the medusa/earthshaker are better, then i need to buy those and decide what I'm going to do with those rapiers. Or the Arvus being the only solar aux transport, but the dracosan is going to come out and completely open up the faction, for way less money.

 

Carving up a complete game is very frustrating.

 

Logistics presumably plays a big part here, too – there's a limit to what can be manufactured each month, as well as transported, marketed etc. Spreading things out might be a anti-consumer measure, but it might equally be a built-in limit. 

 

Presumably there's an awareness of nostaglia here, so 'forcing' hobbyists (like me) to buy things they don't care about – like Sicarans – and holding off things I do want – like Land Raiders – is intentional; but I don't feel exploited by that decision or anything. 

 

Finally, I'd be startled if GW didn't realise quite how prevalent 3D printing is – and while I think the proportion of lost sales it leads to can easily be overstated, that's still lost money for them. From their point of view, I'm sure they'd love to prevent lost sales by having everything available from the get-go – but they've presumably balanced that against the longer term sales.

 

*Nothing to do with being a shill for GW or any other company, for what it's worth – I just have a habit of apologising a lot!

Edited November 27, 2023 by apologist

[Trokair]

35 minutes ago, apologist said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/27/make-tracks-to-your-local-store-for-this-months-legions-imperialis-coin-and-miniature-double-bill/

 

Free miniature of the month is a entinyated Rhino.

 

Is that the first non infantry mini of the month?

 

I almost expect it to be a single Epic Marine or Sola Aux, not a base of 5, but a single one per person, so this is way better. now if only A) my local gets any and b)still has some by the time I can swing by

[LameBeard]

2 hours ago, Pacific81 said:

 

Haha.. yes I know what you mean. I think there is almost an argument for painting up slowly as a secondary game and coming back in 6-12 months for the 'complete' experience.

 

I'm probably going to do that - just have a quick run through of the new rules and paint up some of the new minis, but I couldn't hang my hobby hat on just Legions at the moment. From the existing Epic community, those few of us, why would you when you have complete systems which are very similar that you could play already?

I only have two painting speeds: very slow, and reverse.

[Valkyrion]

Do we know how Storm Eagles and Thunderhawks drop off their cargo? Do they have to land and can then become CAF-able?

[LameBeard]

1 hour ago, apologist said:

I'm pretty sanguine about the order of release. I understand the frustration of not getting your favourite bits and pieces, but I don't think it's necessarily as cynical as one could assume.

 

Older editions of Epic (e.g. Epic: 40,000) launched entire armies in one feel swoop – but that had twin downsides:

• If you played [insert unreleased army], you were sat there twiddling your thumbs
• If you played the army of the month, you were unlikely to buy it all in one go.

I think the lesson GW learned that it was better to sell smaller amounts to more players, and get them to come back next month with more pocket money. At the risk of living up to my username* I don't think that's particularly predatory.  If anything, this better suits my way of collecting – a box every so often, rather than buying an army in one fell swoop. I'd be extremely surprised if Land Raiders aren't out by the time I've finished painting the starter box :D

 

 

I would also vastly have preferred classic Land Raiders, Vindicators and Whirlwinds in place of (checks notes) Sicarans and Kratos tanks. I think this is GW's way of spreading out sales to nostalgic gamers – again encouraging return visits to their shop. 

 

 

 

Logistics presumably plays a big part here, too – there's a limit to what can be manufactured each month, as well as transported, marketed etc. Spreading things out might be a anti-consumer measure, but it might equally be a built-in limit. 

 

Presumably there's an awareness of nostaglia here, so 'forcing' hobbyists (like me) to buy things they don't care about – like Sicarans – and holding off things I do want – like Land Raiders – is intentional; but I don't feel exploited by that decision or anything. 

 

Finally, I'd be startled if GW didn't realise quite how prevalent 3D printing is – and while I think the proportion of lost sales it leads to can easily be overstated, that's still lost money for them. From their point of view, I'm sure they'd love to prevent lost sales by having everything available from the get-go – but they've presumably balanced that against the longer term sales.

 

*Nothing to do with being a shill for GW or any other company, for what it's worth – I just have a habit of apologising a lot!

I hear what you are saying. Ironically I am often accused of being the apologist for GW (full disclosure: I’m a shareholder).  
 

What’s bugging me here is I have underestimated the amount of models needed for a game and overestimated the variety of models with rules in the basic set.  It’s that combination which is putting me off, but as I said, I have only myself to blame, I know the business model as well as the next guy. 
 

I know not everyone agrees but I believe making it marine vs marine in the launch set would have increased sales and allowed a few more units (like land raiders) in the box and the book, with SA making a great “early expansion” book and army box.

 

I feel the investment required for Legions seems higher than that for Titanicus, but maybe I just got lucky with some good value boxes coming in to Titanicus when I did (which was not at day 1).

[Wurrkop]

1 hour ago, Valkyrion said:

Do we know how Storm Eagles and Thunderhawks drop off their cargo? Do they have to land and can then become CAF-able?

 

The cheat sheet has rules for Jump Pack, its specifically notes that detachment equipped with them can exit flying transports without them having to enter hover mode.

 

That would indicate regular units can only get out when the flyer is in hovermode and thereby CAF-able.

 

From my understanding of the available info a flyer moves into the table up to 25" with advance or double that on march, then flies off again in the end phase unless put into hover mode.

 

No indication for if embarked detachments can get out on the same turn as its transport was put into hover or if the flyer has to start the turn in hover mode to allow disembarkation, also no indication if embarking/disembarking can happen before and/or after movement.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Wurrkop

[Valkyrion]

Have you a link to the 'cheat sheet'? 

 

[DuskRaider]

4 hours ago, apologist said:

I'm pretty sanguine about the order of release. I understand the frustration of not getting your favourite bits and pieces, but I don't think it's necessarily as cynical as one could assume.

 

Older editions of Epic (e.g. Epic: 40,000) launched entire armies in one feel swoop – but that had twin downsides:

• If you played [insert unreleased army], you were sat there twiddling your thumbs
• If you played the army of the month, you were unlikely to buy it all in one go.

I think the lesson GW learned that it was better to sell smaller amounts to more players, and get them to come back next month with more pocket money. At the risk of living up to my username* I don't think that's particularly predatory.  If anything, this better suits my way of collecting – a box every so often, rather than buying an army in one fell swoop. I'd be extremely surprised if Land Raiders aren't out by the time I've finished painting the starter box :D

 

 

I would also vastly have preferred classic Land Raiders, Vindicators and Whirlwinds in place of (checks notes) Sicarans and Kratos tanks. I think this is GW's way of spreading out sales to nostalgic gamers – again encouraging return visits to their shop. 

 

 

 

Logistics presumably plays a big part here, too – there's a limit to what can be manufactured each month, as well as transported, marketed etc. Spreading things out might be a anti-consumer measure, but it might equally be a built-in limit. 

 

Presumably there's an awareness of nostaglia here, so 'forcing' hobbyists (like me) to buy things they don't care about – like Sicarans – and holding off things I do want – like Land Raiders – is intentional; but I don't feel exploited by that decision or anything. 

 

Finally, I'd be startled if GW didn't realise quite how prevalent 3D printing is – and while I think the proportion of lost sales it leads to can easily be overstated, that's still lost money for them. From their point of view, I'm sure they'd love to prevent lost sales by having everything available from the get-go – but they've presumably balanced that against the longer term sales.

 

*Nothing to do with being a shill for GW or any other company, for what it's worth – I just have a habit of apologising a lot!

Yeah, I’m not thrilled about the Kratos or Sicaran, nor am I too happy about the decision to currently only have Terminators in the Infantry box and not in their own kit… but if I want to play a game at this point I don’t have much of a choice and I have a bad feeling I’ll be waiting quite a while to have the chance to run what I want to.

 

I suppose at the end of the day if I want a massive Legion I’m going to need the stuff anyhow, but still…

[Noserenda]

Yeah... No Armoured companies without Kratos is some high level bull:cuss: ill be ignoring, probably make some Legion Malcadors if i do get around to it.

[DuskRaider]

3 hours ago, Noserenda said:

Yeah... No Armoured companies without Kratos is some high level bull:cuss: ill be ignoring, probably make some Legion Malcadors if i do get around to it.

Can you still give Legions Malcadors in HH? I remember in v1 you could and I painted / modified mine for my Death Guard but I haven’t looked at the GW version of the game. 
 

I do think that the Malcador, along with some others, should be able to be used by either Aux or Legions (and eventually Militia if they are made a force). 

[Matrindur]

21 minutes ago, DuskRaider said:

Can you still give Legions Malcadors in HH? I remember in v1 you could and I painted / modified mine for my Death Guard but I haven’t looked at the GW version of the game. 
 

I do think that the Malcador, along with some others, should be able to be used by either Aux or Legions (and eventually Militia if they are made a force). 

No Legions can't use Malcadors natively. Only through a SA allied formation, best one for that would be a armoured company which has two compulsory slots that can be filled by malcadors but you also need to take a baneblade for the third compulsory slot

[Noserenda]

You can take them in Age of Darkness, and im representing forces from that mostly. Besides, i need a Legion heavy tank that isnt a Kratos, which is just Malcadors so far. Ill Paint them right and pop a marine cupola in there ;) 

[DuskRaider]

1 minute ago, Matrindur said:

No Legions can't use Malcadors natively. Only through a SA allied formation, best one for that would be a armoured company which has two compulsory slots that can be filled by malcadors but you also need to take a baneblade for the third compulsory slot

I meant for 28mm HH, not Epic. I know it’s off-topic technically but I was just wondering…

[Matrindur]

1 hour ago, DuskRaider said:

I meant for 28mm HH, not Epic. I know it’s off-topic technically but I was just wondering…

Sorry misread that. They can be taken in HH, rules can be found in the expanded army list. 

[Wurrkop]

6 hours ago, Valkyrion said:

Have you a link to the 'cheat sheet'? 

 

 

Its buried some pages back but here it is again :)

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kWXJMe7VJ0ZGxyIZuK8frxknwNyMFvmABOHlAmAvnVI/edit#gid=0

[Pacific81]

Quite an interesting tit-bit I noted when watching a review of the new game, is the way that GW apparently insisted on the original rulebooks (distributed some months ago) being returned. One reviewer on YT was in New Zealand and offered to just send a video of him throwing it on the bonfire to save on the substantial shipping costs, but apparently GW insisted on it being returned.

 

This to me says it was more than a 'bindings' issue, which I know surfaced as a rumour a bit later on, or an egregious rules misprint. I.e. they needed to make sure the books were taken out of circulation. Of course points to something is not the same as saying that it is the case, and you might just have someone who wasn't permitted any initiative in charge of that aspect of logistics.

[Beaky Brigade]

The LI Rhino is the GW mini of the month from December 2nd, pick up a single tank from your local GW from 02/12/23

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/27/make-tracks-to-your-local-store-for-this-months-legions-imperialis-coin-and-miniature-double-bill/

 

[Burni]

I'm starting to get excited for release day - its finally nearly here!

 

Never done a release day order from Dark Sphere before - do they tend to come on the Saturday in the UK?

Edited November 28, 2023 by Burni

[Mogger351]

32 minutes ago, Burni said:

I'm starting to get excited for release day - its finally nearly here!

 

Never done a release day order from Dark Sphere before - do they tend to come on the Saturday in the UK?

They go through phases that I think might be dictated by GW? I've had stuff turn up on launch day and there was a period where they dispatched on launch day. typically if you get a shipping notice Thursday/Friday morning you'll be fine.

[Matcap86]

5 hours ago, Pacific81 said:

Quite an interesting tit-bit I noted when watching a review of the new game, is the way that GW apparently insisted on the original rulebooks (distributed some months ago) being returned. One reviewer on YT was in New Zealand and offered to just send a video of him throwing it on the bonfire to save on the substantial shipping costs, but apparently GW insisted on it being returned.

 

This to me says it was more than a 'bindings' issue, which I know surfaced as a rumour a bit later on, or an egregious rules misprint. I.e. they needed to make sure the books were taken out of circulation. Of course points to something is not the same as saying that it is the case, and you might just have someone who wasn't permitted any initiative in charge of that aspect of logistics.

 

If my work with these kinds of situations has taught me anything it's the latter: The process was decided by management and checks needed to be checked on forms, no faffing about with everyone's own initative. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by matcap86