Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis: The Great Slaughter

[Nagashsnee]

1 hour ago, firestorm40k said:

If you are fortunate enough to have a 3d printer then good for you, but a few points:

 

- I should imagine that laying out miniatures for casting on a plastic sprue is different to designing something for 3d printing, so compromises need to be made

- having painted up the Marine infantry, and actually played with them in the tabletop, when you're looking at these miniatures from over 3 foot away, most of the details are lost anyway. It's how they look enmasse that's the important thing 

- even if you're 'painting these for display', unless you've got a special display case with some kind of  magnifying glass that increases their visibility by at least 4 time, you're still likely going to be looking at these from at least 2-3 foot away - again, details will get lost at that distance. 

 

Without wanting to sound confrontational or critical of other people's opinions, the only criticism of these 8mm sculpts I would be genuinely interested in hearing is from someone who actually works designing miniature kits & sprues, and who understands the processes requirements of casting plastic miniature kits. If someone who does that as their job looks at these and says 'the details on these 8mm miniatures could be made sharper and better defined by making these changes that I'm qualified to explain', then I'd say it's absolutely fair.

 

Oh, one more thing - as someone who painted quite a few of the old 6mm scale Epic infantry, the detailing is greatly improved from the most part on these new miniatures. I remember a Space Marine Captain for old Epic whose 'face' was a blob with three tiny, tiny holes; the best you can do at that scale (pre CAD sculpting as well!), but no doubt some people would complain if that was released today..! 

 

Have a printer, or a friend with a printer....or just money and the internet. Getting printed stuff is not a issue if you can get GW stuff, its actually cheaper and easier (always in stock haha).

 

I dont care about the technical difficulties, because they are charging me the same price regardless of their existence.  I would 100% agree with you if these were less then 'premium price for premium minis'.  If they cant be made decently in plastic...dont make them in plastic? Break them into parts for better details, make them resin, dont make 8mm marines at all if they dont have the means yet, or you know charge less then normal since the quality IS less then normal.  

 

I am glad many people dont mind, and i have no issues with anyone who is more then happy with them. But dont try to use 'if you dont look at the closely you cant tell how bad they are' as an defense.  You dont mind the quality thats fine, but some of us like looking at our minis from less then 3 foot away or heaven forbis take a photo of them without posing them all juuuuuust right so you cant tell how bad the sculpt is.

 

I saw several videos on the design of 8mm when the starter came out and why these came out like this, and the jist as i understood it, is  because they are a single piece mini trying to do dynamic movement. If you broke them into 2-3 pieces these issues disappear.  But then its less marines per sprue or less profits for GW.  If you are truly interested the information is out there and its easy to find. 

 

As for comparing them with minis from what? 15-20 years ago, yes they are better...and? I dont understand this logic, almost everything is better then it was that the entire point of progress.  I would 1000% complain if those minis were released today, so should you? The quality would be abysmal for modern mini making? I honestly dont get your last point? If someone tried to sell me my laptop from 2002 today at the same price as modern laptops I wouldn't even bother to complain, its either a attempt at theft or the person is just simple.  We are complaining in 2024 for minis made and sold in 2024 (well these were probably made in 2023 but you get my point).  

 

 

[Taliesin]

On 2/15/2024 at 6:38 PM, Noserenda said:

The store owner i still chat to is apparently only allowed 1 copy too.

 

Can confirm, I spoke to the distributor here in the country and they said GW allows only 1 copy for retailer, and they decided not to put this book up for sale because of that.

[lansalt]

18 minutes ago, LameBeard said:

The power generation has nothing to do with the books though, they aren’t printed on-site anre they? They certainly didn’t used to be and outsourcing has been common. There is some deeper problem here that GW is not being very candid about in its annual reports.

GW books have been printed in China for like 15 years or more, so I guess they're shipped in batches long before they're sold, and GW is unwilling or unable to release more when they become out of stock.

[Taliesin]

3 hours ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

Great Slaughter book as well as Legion Support & Spartans are not available anymore. In what kind of world do we live in? I wanted to order a few from my local GW store. Jesus!

 

The book does say " temporarily out of stock" just like the Old World Rulebook when that released and sold out in minutes.

This usually means that this book will become available again, usually when they print their second wave. However as I was told by GW when asking about the Old World Rulebook, that is usually several weeks after the first release.

 

I had it last year with the Aeronautica Horus Heresy book. Sold out immediately but a few months later was back in stock and stayed in stock a long time ( may still be available).

Its when it says "sold out online"  that it is really gone and not coming back into stock.

[No Foes Remain]

There is also current real world issues hampering trade ships coming through from the East, some are stuck and delayed because of it. The company I work for had to hold back about 300 items due to this because they can't get them through.

[Captain Idaho]

Well I had a surplus voucher present ready to put it on Legions Imperialis but GW are out of stock, so... meh.

 

The game enthusiasm is dying locally for me. It's sad times.

[Mandragola]

Well we’ve published our reviews on goonhammer:

 

Campaigns and Titandeath. 
 

Astartes.

 

Solar Auxilia. 
 

We like the book quite a bit. There’s a chunky background section and the campaign and Titandeath sections are both well thought out. The new formations and units give you cool things, though SA artillery companies look oppressive. 
 

The rules for models are odd as hardly any of them are on sale yet - even theoretically. So these are reviews of a book that’s sold out, which provides rules for models that haven’t been released. Enjoy!

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, Nagashsnee said:

 

Have a printer, or a friend with a printer....or just money and the internet. Getting printed stuff is not a issue if you can get GW stuff, its actually cheaper and easier (always in stock haha).

 

I dont care about the technical difficulties, because they are charging me the same price regardless of their existence.  I would 100% agree with you if these were less then 'premium price for premium minis'.  If they cant be made decently in plastic...dont make them in plastic? Break them into parts for better details, make them resin, dont make 8mm marines at all if they dont have the means yet, or you know charge less then normal since the quality IS less then normal.  

 

I am glad many people dont mind, and i have no issues with anyone who is more then happy with them. But dont try to use 'if you dont look at the closely you cant tell how bad they are' as an defense.  You dont mind the quality thats fine, but some of us like looking at our minis from less then 3 foot away or heaven forbis take a photo of them without posing them all juuuuuust right so you cant tell how bad the sculpt is.

 

I saw several videos on the design of 8mm when the starter came out and why these came out like this, and the jist as i understood it, is  because they are a single piece mini trying to do dynamic movement. If you broke them into 2-3 pieces these issues disappear.  But then its less marines per sprue or less profits for GW.  If you are truly interested the information is out there and its easy to find. 

 

As for comparing them with minis from what? 15-20 years ago, yes they are better...and? I dont understand this logic, almost everything is better then it was that the entire point of progress.  I would 1000% complain if those minis were released today, so should you? The quality would be abysmal for modern mini making? I honestly dont get your last point? If someone tried to sell me my laptop from 2002 today at the same price as modern laptops I wouldn't even bother to complain, its either a attempt at theft or the person is just simple.  We are complaining in 2024 for minis made and sold in 2024 (well these were probably made in 2023 but you get my point).  

 

 

 

You bring up a good point here. Many people are happy to buy miniatures with a little less detail as long as they are being sold at a price that matches their quality. There are plenty of companies out there selling boxes of 20-30 28mm/32mm minis with nearly as much detail as what GW produces, and selling at a fraction of the price.

 

The problem right now is Games Workshop justifies their prices by the quality of their products. If the model looks like a tictac, we should be paying tictac prices.

[Joe]

2 hours ago, lansalt said:

GW books have been printed in China for like 15 years or more, so I guess they're shipped in batches long before they're sold, and GW is unwilling or unable to release more when they become out of stock.

 

They switched back to printing them in the UK in recent years (and then briefly returned to China after their first UK partner went bust due to BREXIT), at least for the main studio; it's up in the air as to whether or not SGDS has switched back to the UK.

[Dark Shepherd]

I would guess warehousing is the issue for books but thought they moved into or opened a new warehouse that they share with amazon?

[Halandaar]

23 minutes ago, Joe said:

They switched back to printing them in the UK in recent years (and then briefly returned to China after their first UK partner went bust due to BREXIT), at least for the main studio; it's up in the air as to whether or not SGDS has switched back to the UK.

 

The newest specialist games books I've got (Old World) are all printed in China. 

 

As far as the main studio is concerned, the 9th Edition SM and Necron Codexes were definitely printed in the UK, but they were the first ones (rulebook was China) and as far as I recall they were already back to being Chinese printed by the Death Guard book which was what, only the 3rd or 4th Codex out? I don't have any of the later ones to check either way, and the only books I have from 10th Edition are ones with "special" covers which don't state on the back where they were printed at all. 

 

[DuskRaider]

It literally just turned 1PM here, I go to PO the damn book and it’s already saying Insufficient Amount. This company is trash lol

[Black Cohort]

In Canada I was able to get a spartan box, and one each of both support boxes with no worries, weirdly the cart had restocked my previous order when the core box went up for pre-order but that was easy to solve.

[DuskRaider]

The models are still up for PO no issue, it’s the book that’s already unavailable. I’ll have my buddy print the models for me. I just read on FB that GW put the stuff up 13 minutes early and by 1PM EST when it’s supposed to go live it was already sold out. 
 

If GW can’t be bothered to stock the book then they don’t deserve my money for the models. 

[vadersson]

Just looking at the US website and looks like most stuff is still available.  Since I am not buying direct, I have not tried to actually get anything.  But so fat some stuff shows in stock.

[Marshal Rohr]

I’m just gonna get the digital version. It’s more recent and convenient without having to deal with the god awful website

[PlateofWaffles]

This makes 2 for 2 of their last game systems that I can't play because of extreme stock shortages.  Between Legions and The Old World its impossible for new players to hop into their systems unless they were there waiting on the webstore five minutes before they were supposed to go live.  No-one in my playgroup got any either, so we can't even share rules.

 

This has ceased to be a hobby and started to be a headache.  

[lansalt]

3 hours ago, Halandaar said:

the 9th Edition SM and Necron Codexes were definitely printed in the UK

Those seem to have been an exception due to the supply issues at the time, because all other GW books I've seen since 6th ed. (included) say "Printed in China"

[Joe]

3 hours ago, Halandaar said:

 

The newest specialist games books I've got (Old World) are all printed in China. 

 

As far as the main studio is concerned, the 9th Edition SM and Necron Codexes were definitely printed in the UK, but they were the first ones (rulebook was China) and as far as I recall they were already back to being Chinese printed by the Death Guard book which was what, only the 3rd or 4th Codex out? I don't have any of the later ones to check either way, and the only books I have from 10th Edition are ones with "special" covers which don't state on the back where they were printed at all. 

 

Yeah, the aftermath of Westdale Press going bankrupt unfortunately; there was a brief stint where the printing transferred back to the previous partner in China which led to some issues (see: Cursed City being printed in the incorrect quantity). I had a quick glance through some of my more up-to-date rulebooks and they don't list a "printed in [COUNTRY]" anymore, however I know for a fact a lot of the recent leaks we've seen (i.e. the Tyranid leaks, with the full print pages) were the result of an employee at the current UK partner.

[lansalt]

The current 10th ed. codex: tyranids also says "Printed in China" in the back cover:

 

Spoiler

 

[Marshal Rohr]

 

3 minutes ago, lansalt said:

The current 10th ed. codex: tyranids also says "Printed in China" in the back cover:

 

  Hide contents

 

Well that’s pretty definitive lol

[Joe]

Interesting; they've flipped back to China again. Can't imagine they were happy with the constant leaks from the UK lol. Rather amusing that the former is more reliable than the latter on that front.

[Marshal Rohr]

The printer leaks can still come from China, too.  It’s not like China doesn’t know what Warhammer is or that it is popular and there was an instance of the Zone Mortalis tiles and terrain that sold out over here were readily available from sites of ill repute. 

[Matrindur]

So I just noticed something about the Orbital Assault special rule in the core book. It says that models that have both this rule and the Drop Pod rule can fire all their weapons after deploying. 
Since it only works with drop pods, no other model should get this rule but none of the drop pod variants in the new book has this rule, not even the Deathstorm? 
So unless that rule will only be on the Dreadclaw or Kharybdis (Do they have a rule like this in HH which the normal Drop Pods don't have?) they just forgot about this rule from the core book when writing the expansion book.

 

Wouldn't be the first thing that feels like different teams designed the two, for example in the core book many detachments get cheaper if you take more models in a single slot instead of multiple, meanwhile none of the expansion book units have that. They are all just multiples of the base cost points.
Or another one would be how in the core book in the dedicated transport rule it talks about taking Spartans as dedicated transports which isn't possible with any formation and there is nothing in the expansion book to change that. (Though that could change in the form of an errata for the Demi-Company formation)

[Mandragola]

That’s an interesting spot. I agree it looks like orbital assault should be on deathstorm pods. Alternatively it may be being held for the kharibdys, letting it fire off all its missiles before the passengers get out, so it doesn’t shoot them all dead. 
 

Not having the rule is a major weakness of deathstorms. They can easily be killed by first fire, or else just charged, before they get to shoot. They also shoot up your own drop-podding troops if they land anywhere nearby, which is unhelpful. It would be much better if they had this rule and fired off their missiles immediately on landing. 
 

The Spartan thing  seems more like an example of something that could happen to explain how the rules would work in that situation. There may be a future formation that allows dedicated Spartans but for now I think they’re intended to only be available as non-dedicated transport detachments in the Demi-company.