The Horus Heresy Horus Heresy: The Battle for Beta-Garmon

[Nephaston]

56 minutes ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

This is the most obvious solution but the question is will it fit on the sprue. The leg cuts will have to fit in the space that the chain bayonets do. ten leg cuts in the space of 5 bayonets is gonna be tight likely other parts would need to be sacrificed and there aren't many to sacfrifice... the 2 bareheads maybe but still tight. I'm sure it can be figured out. Would def give GW extra bragging rights about having the worlds best minis so you know they are working on it.

 

Assuming the Shoulders, Torsos, and Back-Modules take the same amount of space on the sprue as they do on MkVI, which is almost guaranteed judging by the apothecary kit, they would indeed need to toss tome bits and optimize space. Which is why I sepnt another aeon in paint.

 

Red is the bits cut.

Green is the space they can gain, a good chunk of it by bunching bit up real close (or perhaps going for a thinner sprue).

Blue are the heads, which like MkIII take up a bit more space than necessary, (Beaks because sideways, MkIII because Pickelhaube) therefore a forward facing MkV head would take a smidge less space.

 

That is all withoot cutting the bare heads and the sergeant helmet with it's mounting point.

Imo all very doable.

[Jings]

I think you guys are getting ahead of yourselves with the plastic Mark V kit. That looks a lot more like art than it does the photoshopped miniatures that gave the Mark III away to me. I'd happily be wrong though. 

[Nephaston]

3 hours ago, Jings said:

you guys are getting ahead of yourselves

Well, we are on the internet after all.

[WrathOfTheLion]

It's also pretty likely that they'll release an armor mark each year at this point, as they've done so thus far. I'd take any of MK II, IV or V, but I personally would prefer MK V. I also think MK V really fits setting for Beta-Garmon.

 

We should see more if they release a new roadmap, perhaps at Adepticon or WH Fest (or its online equivalent).

[Matrindur]

10 hours ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

It's also pretty likely that they'll release an armor mark each year at this point, as they've done so thus far. I'd take any of MK II, IV or V, but I personally would prefer MK V. I also think MK V really fits setting for Beta-Garmon.

 

We should see more if they release a new roadmap, perhaps at Adepticon or WH Fest (or its online equivalent).

There are reasons that would make sense for all other MK. MKII already has stuff done since its the MK used for the vehicles drivers, MKV would fit best into the setting (its the heresy armour after all) and while MKIV already has a kit, the same was true for MKIII and since they replaced that one they might want to replace the old kits first before making other new ones?

 

Personally I think we will see MKII or MKIV before MKV but I have no doubt that they will keep making new MKs every year

Edited January 28 by Matrindur

[Lord Marshal]

6 hours ago, Matrindur said:

There are reasons that would make sense for all other MK. MKII already has stuff done since its the MK used for the vehicles drivers, MKV would fit best into the setting (its the heresy armour after all) and while MKIV already has a kit, the same was true for MKIII and since they replaced that one they might want to replace the old kits first before making other new ones?

 

Personally I think we will se MKII or MKIV before MKV but I have no doubt that they will keep making new MKs every year

 

My uneducated guess is we'll end up seeing plastic Breachers sometime this year, which is why they updated Mark III Tacticals first despite Mark IV arguably needing the update more.

[Aarik]

7 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

 

My uneducated guess is we'll end up seeing plastic Breachers sometime this year, which is why they updated Mark III Tacticals first despite Mark IV arguably needing the update more.

 

I thought I had seen something about GW confirmed that if breachers come, they would be a resin upgrade kit rather than plastic.  I could be wrong though.  If/when we do get breachers, I really hope that they keep the old style boarding shields, and don't go with the new one that Fafnir Rann has.  But given that he was a preview of the new plastic Mk III's, I'm not optimistic 

[Xirix]

1 hour ago, Aarik said:

 

I thought I had seen something about GW confirmed that if breachers come, they would be a resin upgrade kit rather than plastic.  I could be wrong though.  If/when we do get breachers, I really hope that they keep the old style boarding shields, and don't go with the new one that Fafnir Rann has.  But given that he was a preview of the new plastic Mk III's, I'm not optimistic 

I don't believe GW said anything to that effect, I think people just rumoured that might be the case when the resin despoiler weapons were released.

[MegaVolt87]

Aren't the new assault squad shields essentially a mini version of Rhan's shield? New breachers would likely be like Rhan's shield. 

[01RTB01]

13 hours ago, MegaVolt87 said:

Aren't the new assault squad shields essentially a mini version of Rhan's shield? New breachers would likely be like Rhan's shield. 

 

They are yup. I'd concur with the wager.

[OttoVonAwesome]

22 hours ago, Aarik said:

 

I thought I had seen something about GW confirmed that if breachers come, they would be a resin upgrade kit rather than plastic.  I could be wrong though.  If/when we do get breachers, I really hope that they keep the old style boarding shields, and don't go with the new one that Fafnir Rann has.  But given that he was a preview of the new plastic Mk III's, I'm not optimistic 

Actually a design rep said something implying they were being worked on in plastic but who really knows since it was in that vague discord interview that also claimed the mystery army was entirely new wich it was not. I'm of the mind they will be MK3's second kit instead of an assualt squad.

[roryokane]

On 1/26/2024 at 2:54 PM, Marshal Rohr said:

Have you guys not put together any of the Mark 6? They will simply splice the leg plates to get the round studs and we will all be bombarded with people complaining about having to deal with the gaps while the rest of us put together our sick new mark 5. 

Wait, the splitting the studded pauldrons was simply to save space on the sprues? Goddamn it GW, just make them like old style firstborn Mk III/Mk IV tactical squads instead! (i've done about 20 of my current 100 or so Mk VIs I've got to do, and I am seriously considering simply trying to find a big set of studded pauldrons to use instead to simply avoid having to glue those things together another 100 times over - plus the assault squads I've got).

As to the BA picture - I think the Mk V Apothecary shows they're gearing up to do a plastic Mk V kit, but probably not imminently.

 

EDIT: do we think the book will be good for fluff?

Edited January 31 by roryokane

[Doctor Perils]

37 minutes ago, roryokane said:

Wait, the splitting the studded pauldrons was simply to save space on the sprues? Goddamn it GW, just make them like old style firstborn Mk III/Mk IV tactical squads instead! (i've done about 20 of my current 100 or so Mk VIs I've got to do, and I am seriously considering simply trying to find a big set of studded pauldrons to use instead to simply avoid having to glue those things together another 100 times over - plus the assault squads I've got).

As to the BA picture - I think the Mk V Apothecary shows they're gearing up to do a plastic Mk V kit, but probably not imminently.

 

EDIT: do we think the book will be good for fluff?

The split pauldron isn't too save sprue space, it's to have better mold fidelity for the bonding studs

[roryokane]

1 hour ago, Doctor Perils said:

The split pauldron isn't too save sprue space, it's to have better mold fidelity for the bonding studs

That's an even worse reason! :P
 

[Noserenda]

They look a lot better split, and they are a pretty trivial build if you are using decent poly cement

[MegaVolt87]

1 hour ago, roryokane said:

That's an even worse reason! :P
 

 

Yeah bigger detailed plastic moulds are possible, but GW doesn't want to spend the extra money into production costs to do it. It's why a lot of kits are like that in HH, it's cost cutting. 

[roryokane]

33 minutes ago, MegaVolt87 said:

 

Yeah bigger detailed plastic moulds are possible, but GW doesn't want to spend the extra money into production costs to do it. It's why a lot of kits are like that in HH, it's cost cutting. 

but but but the Mk III and IV kits before were FINE. JUST DO THAT AGAIN! :(

[Orion]

41 minutes ago, roryokane said:

but but but the Mk III and IV kits before were FINE. JUST DO THAT AGAIN! :(

Nah, I recently bought 20 MK4 and the studs on the MK6 look a fair bit better. 

As much as I like the MK4, stretched detail on plastic kits is bad and something GW should continue to find ways to improve on (like split pauldrons)

[Noserenda]

Yeah the older plastics had significant advantages, but the pads really arent one of them. Most of them relate to being a much bigger frame with more options though and the newer plastics clearly did not have that budget.

(This is all pretty off topic really though, and should probably be its own thread)

[01RTB01]

2 hours ago, Orion said:

Nah, I recently bought 20 MK4 and the studs on the MK6 look a fair bit better. 

As much as I like the MK4, stretched detail on plastic kits is bad and something GW should continue to find ways to improve on (like split pauldrons)

Although the split pauldrons weren't overly fun to build, I've built enough that I'd cope on mkiv.

 

I would like to see upscaled mkiv and breachers this year. I'm wagering that we'll see Little Horus tomorrow (still Wednesday where I am).

[MegaVolt87]

Clearly people defending the re-designed kits like mk III because it's apparently not possible to replicate the OG kit at a re-scale has never worked with the plastic custodes infantry which are very much on par with the resins for details.

 

HH kits have been re-designed and manufactured on a tight budget and it shows. I think we have sacrificed too much in detail, options and variations in the pursuit of acesability and RRP cuts. Cut to the literal bone, not even a chainsword and bolt pistol for sarge. Meanwhile those same people erroded their much trumpeted savings buying the legion shoulder pads and helms or the resin legion contemptor torso kit. A celebration of a loss of details while returning that same loss of details at a worse value add. 

Edited February 1 by MegaVolt87

[Orion]

1 hour ago, MegaVolt87 said:

Clearly people defending the re-designed kits like mk III because it's apparently not possible to replicate the OG kit at a re-scale has never worked with the plastic custodes infantry which are very much on par with the resins for details.

Trust me, after you've worked with enough resin, nothing is ever as "on par".

That aside, the shoulderpads are an improvement. Unless you're championing slide moulds, you ain't getting those specific shapes any other way. 

Custodes are irrelevant to the point. 

[MegaVolt87]

21 minutes ago, Orion said:

Trust me, after you've worked with enough resin, nothing is ever as "on par".

That aside, the shoulderpads are an improvement. Unless you're championing slide moulds, you ain't getting those specific shapes any other way. 

Custodes are irrelevant to the point. 

 

They are very much relevent. Name me another detailed plastic kit that has the same level of detail that has a greater number than x5 plastic custodes. There is absolutely no way a 1:1 plastic re-scale of the OG mk III tac squad would be in a x20 man box, they would be in a x10 man box at that level of detail. Clearly compromises were made to give us a x20 man box of the new mk III. A x20 man box is AUD$135, that's $67.50/ $68. A x5 man custodes squad is AUD$105 for such detailed minitures. I would be prepared to pay at least AUD$80+ per x10 for a discounted x20 man re-scaled OG mk III tac squad at the old details level, considering the old x10 box was over $85+ anyway with price rises. I think it capped out at $95 before it became unobtainium in OZ from memory. 

 

GW didn't even want to give us variety mk III powerfist or lightning claws like the old mk III. The mk VI upgrade sprue was re-used to cut costs. Majority of the time the only thing stopping a "perfect" product hitting market is budget and what the company believes the market will pay for the product. Just because it turned out that way and we have to deal with it, doesn't mean we have to be happy about it or defend a worse product that is cheaper for the drawbacks.

[Orion]

47 minutes ago, MegaVolt87 said:

 

They are very much relevent. Name me another detailed plastic kit that has the same level of detail that has a greater number than x5 plastic custodes. There is absolutely no way a 1:1 plastic re-scale of the OG mk III tac squad would be in a x20 man box, they would be in a x10 man box at that level of detail. Clearly compromises were made to give us a x20 man box of the new mk III. A x20 man box is AUD$135, that's $67.50/ $68. A x5 man custodes squad is AUD$105 for such detailed minitures. I would be prepared to pay at least AUD$80+ per x10 for a discounted x20 man re-scaled OG mk III tac squad at the old details level, considering the old x10 box was over $85+ anyway with price rises. I think it capped out at $95 before it became unobtainium in OZ from memory. 

 

GW didn't even want to give us variety mk III powerfist or lightning claws like the old mk III. The mk VI upgrade sprue was re-used to cut costs. Majority of the time the only thing stopping a "perfect" product hitting market is budget and what the company believes the market will pay for the product. Just because it turned out that way and we have to deal with it, doesn't mean we have to be happy about it or defend a worse product that is cheaper for the drawbacks.

 

 

Here's a diagram with examples.

Custodes have nothing to do with this.

 

Edit: and another photo of a mini sitting in front of me

Edited February 1 by Orion

[MegaVolt87]

Just because boarding studs can't make the transition, the rest of the older kit details certainly would at the cost of more/ larger sprues and RRP. The re- scale would still work even if they are omitted completely, I have seen people remove them anyway. Perhaps a good compromise is x10 man boxes that are 1:1 of the old kits but the branded as legion veterans at a higher RRP to reflect the increased detail and product development + producion costs.