Plastic Legio Custodes Battlegroup + Coronus Grav-Carrier + Venatari + Liber

[Robbienw]

You know the discussion has reached its nadir when people start claiming 40k is political satire (yes I know it has the odd satirical element within it).  It’s a game with cool models for nerdy collector type people.  Stop taking everything too seriously 

[Zoatibix]

58 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

I'm being serious about this, I do not recall any real mention of the topic at all until the absolute outpouring of vitriol towards the concept after the codex page got leaked.

Prior to that I posted a couple of photos of a Custodes model with a female head in a Facebook group. I just thought it was cool.

 

Some folks clearly thought it was a Return to Unsliced Bread.

[Evil Eye]

I'm just glad nobody's started using the phrase "media literacy" in the thread yet. Progress! 

 

NOOOOOOO

Edited January 17 by Evil Eye
Goddamnit, hd3!

[hd3]

3 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

You know the discussion has reached its nadir when people start claiming 40k is political satire (yes I know it has the odd satirical element within it).  It’s a game with cool models for nerdy collector type people.  Stop taking everything too seriously 

 

At the risk of being flippant,  there's always someone who wants to show his media literacy certificate to let everyone know they don't understand their own hobby. 

3 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

I'm just glad nobody's started using the phrase "media literacy" in the thread yet. Progress! 

 

Awwww, you were just slightly quicker on the draw than I was.

[Robbienw]

3 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

Necrons getting changed 5 times with no Lore reasoning is why they made the next big refresh into a huge Lore thing with in-universe justification for it.

 

That next refresh was Primaris Marines and we still haven't seen the end of the fallout from that.

 

I think it makes complete sense for GW to decide not to try and do that again.

Primaris was a far more drastic change to a more popular faction.  The SoS don’t really make sense now without some changes.  I doubt they are going to change their revisionist retconning habits anytime soon.

[Indy Techwisp]

Just now, Evil Eye said:

I'm just glad nobody's started using the phrase "media literacy" in the thread yet. Progress! 

 

Just now, hd3 said:

At the risk of being flippant,  there's always someone who wants to show his media literacy certificate to let everyone know they don't understand their own hobby. 

 

[Crimson Longinus]

4 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

You know the discussion has reached its nadir when people start claiming 40k is political satire (yes I know it has the odd satirical element within it).  It’s a game with cool models for nerdy collector type people.  Stop taking everything too seriously 

 

I mean some people seem to take this particular set of cool models rather seriously for some unfathomable reason... 

[Evil Eye]

Just now, Crimson Longinus said:

 

I mean some people seem to take this particular set of cool models rather seriously for some unfathomable reason... 

It is possible to be passionate about hobbies (or anything) for reasons entirely unrelated to politics. My son is just shy of 17 months old and has no comprehension of sociopolitical nonsense, and I love and cherish him dearly- truly unfathomable I know!

[hd3]

4 minutes ago, Zoatibix said:

Prior to that I posted a couple of photos of a Custodes model with a female head in a Facebook group. I just thought it was cool.

 

Some folks clearly thought it was a Return to Unsliced Bread.

 

Oh mate, if just thinking a model is cool and excessive reactions are your thing, you should check out what happens on reddit to anyone who plays an axis country in ww2 games or the wrong group in trench crusade.

[Robbienw]

Claiming everything is politics is celery on another level though.

 

It’s not satire, I think the idea it is comes from a wilful misunderstanding of the setting.

Edited January 17 by Robbienw

[Scribe]

17 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

 

Mate, it started out as political satire based on rich history of such satirical fiction. It of course is mainly entertainment, but saying it isn't, and should not try to be political at all, is a colossal misunderstanding of the source material and the history behind it. 

 

Absolutely it's a satire.

 

Why anyone would choose to identify with a faction of the Imperium is beyond me!

[Crimson Longinus]

1 minute ago, Evil Eye said:

It is possible to be passionate about hobbies (or anything) for reasons entirely unrelated to politics. My son is just shy of 17 months old and has no comprehension of sociopolitical nonsense, and I love and cherish him dearly- truly unfathomable I know!

 

Yes, but the pushback these models are getting of course is politically motivated. I mean, not the complaints about the shins being too bare, but the other stuff.

[hd3]

9 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

 

I mean some people seem to take this particular set of cool models rather seriously for some unfathomable reason... 

 

I mean, I'll concede the point but I'm not sure you can say that with a straight face and also advocate for female marines. Are the demographics of the little plastic soldiers worth taking seriously or not?

4 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

 

Yes, but the pushback these models are getting of course is politically motivated. I mean, not the complaints about the shins being too bare, but the other stuff.

 

I'd say its about as political and in good faith as the change itself and its supporters have been. 

[Jings]

5 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

Absolutely it's a satire.

 

Why anyone would choose to identify with a faction of the Imperium is beyond me!

 

Innit? No idea where the whole 40K isn't satirical came from. The whole "let's make things as bad as possible as a joke" is my favourite part about the setting. 

[phandaal]

2 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

Yes, but the pushback these models are getting of course is politically motivated. I mean, not the complaints about the shins being too bare, but the other stuff.

 

Dude, everyone has been spelling it out for you every time you insinuate something. Nobody is hiding why they have their opinions. Please, no more, it is too hard to watch. 

[Indy Techwisp]

Just now, hd3 said:

I mean, I'll concede the point but I'm not sure you can say that with a straight face and also advocate for female marines.

 

Why are you bringing up Female Marines?

This is about Female Custodes.

No-one here has been pushing for Female Marines and GW themselves reiterated that they're not doing them in the article.

[Evil Eye]

Just now, Scribe said:

 

Absolutely it's a satire.

 

Why anyone would choose to identify with a faction of the Imperium is beyond me!

I mean realistically there is not a single faction you should "identify" with (at least on a political level) in the 41st Millennium. The Imperium is a totalitarian nightmare state, which has to be so for the sake of its own survival, the forces of Chaos are aligned with literal Satan GTI, the Necrons are omnicidal robots who are either slaves to star-eating horrors or profoundly racially insane (depending on edition), the Orks are murderous brutes who feed on fighting, the Eldar are responsible for everything in the first place and have views on non-Eldar that make the pointy helmets make a lot of sense, the Dark Eldar are that except considerably worse on account of the whole "feeds on suffering and enjoys it" thing, the Tau are either hopelessly naive and doomed to extermination if they ever get too cocky or are essentially turning into the Imperium as they realize the truth of the galaxy (again depending on edition), the Votann are happy to grind your entire planet to dust for resources at the whims of their decaying computer overlords, and the Tyranids are numberless extragalactic hordes of soulless biological automatons directed by a consciousness at once so vast that its mere presence smothers the Gods themselves, and yet utterly single-minded in its one true purpose- to consume every single living thing in the galaxy.

 

Every single faction is completely and totally awful. That's the point.

[Jings]

7 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

 

Yes, but the pushback these models are getting of course is politically motivated. I mean, not the complaints about the shins being too bare, but the other stuff.

 

People are allowed to dislike a clumsy shoehorned retcon on the merits of its execution without that opinion being politically motivated. 

[hd3]

4 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

Why are you bringing up Female Marines?

This is about Female Custodes.

No-one here has been pushing for Female Marines and GW themselves reiterated that they're not doing them in the article.

 

Because Crimson Longinus was advocating for female marines, mainly.

19 hours ago, Crimson Longinus said:

 

It's not. My only issue with female custodes is that it should have been marines. Custodes are marginal niche faction, so if they are gender-locked that really is not an issue, same way than SoB being gender-locked isn't. But marines are the main faction around which both HH an 40K revolve, and they're the customisable faction with a lot of different flavours. You can have viking marines, roman marines, vampire marines, maori marines, and whatever sort of marines you could imagine... as long as it is not girl marines! It is just pointless restriction that was thrown in some ancient lore to justify GW not making female marine models at the moment, and it is sad and disturbing so many people see it as some sort of sacred red line. 

 

[Joe]

Trying to reign it back in a bit - what's peoples hopes / expectations for the broader waves? I'd be pretty ecstatic if the refresh was done and dusted by the end of the year.

 

I'd be super impressed if they came up with a new super-heavy for Custodes. Maybe just back-port the Astraeus and fix it up a bit at this stage.

[Arikel]

19 hours ago, Scribe said:

 

Pretty much any retcon, but especially one that is for nonsensical reasons external to the game, and especially one that could lead to the slippery slope of 'yeah there was always Female Space Marines duh!'

All i gotta say about any custodes fans upset is that the whole custodes matter has been handled so much better than the introduction of primaris and the destruction of space marine lore that entailed, as well as the general degradation of the 40k universe that came shortly tereafter. I would much much much rather have just had a “space marines have just always been this” than the ensuing weak lore, silly retcons and ensuing division created by that decision.

Edited January 17 by Arikel

[Scribe]

2 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

Every single faction is completely and totally awful. That's the point.

 

My World Eaters did nothing wrong! ;)

[Crimson Longinus]

2 minutes ago, hd3 said:

 

I mean, I'll concede the point but I'm not sure you can say that with a straight face and also advocate for female marines. Are the demographics of the little plastic soldiers worth taking seriously or not?

 

I'd say its about as political and in good faith as the change itself and its supporters have been. 

 

Yeah, that's fair. But I never claimed that 40K was apolitical, quite the opposite. I think almost all remotely decent fiction depicting societies is political in one way or another. Star Trek, Star Wars, Dune, 40K, they are all contain societal commentary, analogues and satire, which is of course political. The whole "keep politics out of my hobby" is almost always disingenuous or confused, because the politics were already in it. 

[Scribe]

1 minute ago, Arikel said:

All i gotta say about any custodes fans upset is that the whole custodes matter has been handled so much better than the introduction of primaris and the destruction of space lore that entailed, as well as the general degradation of the 40k universe that entailed. I would much much much rather have just had a “space marines have just always been this” than the ensuing weak lore, silly retcons and ensuing division created by that decision.

 

Big agree, but that was just a poor internal change. I mean its like my undying distrust and lack of acceptance for anything Haley writes at this point. Between Cawl and his other modern work, hes going to destroy the setting.

7 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

No-one here has been pushing for Female Marines

 

Crimson literally is, every time, all the time, and hes not alone out there in the wider hellscape of the internet.

[Crimson Longinus]

5 minutes ago, Jings said:

 

People are allowed to dislike a clumsy shoehorned retcon on the merits of its execution without that opinion being politically motivated. 

Yes, but given that they're a fan of a franchise literally built on such retcons, most of which, do not cause such uproar, it it rather clear that it is the specific politically perceived aspect of this retcon they have an issue with.