Plastic Legio Custodes Battlegroup + Coronus Grav-Carrier + Venatari + Liber

[Robbienw]

12 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Sister aren’t going to get a new release for Heresy. It’s going to stay the current kit. 

For now.  They’ll get new stuff in the future.

[Crimson Longinus]

4 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

Look, if you are into muscle mommies, thats fine brother, I dont need to know, I dont care.

 

 

You are on the right track, that the same thing that some men feel threatening is what some others find hot. But I don't believe for a moment that GW did this decision to court that crowd.

 

4 minutes ago, Scribe said:

When they get around to updating Catachans, there WILL be female models, and they WILL be ripped.

 

And if they are as ripped than the men, I totally expect there to be an outcry that female Cadian models (mostly) didn't cause. Not same proportion than with Custodes and Marines, as those are the top tier of that fantasy.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Scribe said:

So no, thats still a miss for you and everyone else trying to make a point or insinuation because you dont have the stones to say it clearly.

 

I dont like my media changing due to the pressures of a vocal minority shrieking on social media. Thats it. Thats the message.

 

I am not talking about you specifically. I am talking about why in general this is a sore spot in way female Cadians or knight pilots aren't.

 

Furthermore, I don't accept your characterisation of this being some sort of bowing down to external pressure. GW creatives are completely capable of coming up ideas on their own, and it has been established that some wanted to have female Custodes ages ago, and the only reason it didn't happen then was that the models were already made.

 

Besides, why it it bad to do new stuff some people online want, but not bad to refrain doing new stuff because vocal online minority opposes it? Especially as we have already established, that this whole lore purity thing is hypocrisy; like you having an arbitrary cut-off-point when the lore was "perfected" and retcons before it are accepted and retcons after it are rejected. Everyone will have different preferences on when the lore was on its best (often related to when they entered the hobby) so you cannot expect GW to cater to yours specifically. 

 

 

[Wispy]

1 hour ago, phandaal said:

 

. No one who dislikes the new lore is raging really, just saying "I don't like this." Despite some people passive-aggressively implying that not liking the change means we hate women (real subtle, guys), 

So please bare with me while I phrase this as diplomatically as I can: I think you and some folks need to be more aware of the cultural moment this discussion is taking place in. When I see complaints of tokenism accompanied by what I feel is unwarranted cynicism (from my perspective lady custodes are simply "Neat!"), if I did not know these particular individuals are just cynical about absolutely everything then it'd be impossible to not associate it with the background radiation projected by bad actors who use these sorts of developments as ammunition.

 

Is it unfair that everything is filtered through this cultural lens & poisoning discussion? Yeah. Should we be aware and of it and acknowledge it so we can mitigate it? Probably! So some people need to summer down about this as it's becomes especially inflammatory? Also probably!

Edited January 17 by Wispy

[Scribe]

Just now, Crimson Longinus said:

And if they are as ripped than the men, I totally expect there to be an outcry that female Cadian models (mostly) didn't cause. Not same proportion than with Custodes and Marines, as those are the top tier of that fantasy.

 

Not from me. Of course they will be ripped, thats the whole trope! Its Rambo in Space.

 

2 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

Furthermore, I don't accept your characterisation of this being some sort of bowing down to external pressure.

 

I wouldnt expect you to.

 

3 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

Besides, why it it bad to do new stuff some people online want, but not bad to refrain doing new stuff because vocal online minority opposes it?

 

Because when it makes no sense UNLESS you look at that external pressure, then its not something done to enrich the setting, improve the hobby, its done because of that external pressure, and I do not want 40K to get ruined by a passing fad.

[Norman Paperman]

15 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

I'm being serious about this, I do not recall any real mention of the topic at all until the absolute outpouring of vitriol towards the concept after the codex page got leaked.

 

If, as you say, "screaming from a vocal minority" caused the change, where the hell were they screaming because it wasn't anywhere anyone could see it.

They were screaming on Reddit. They were screaming in the communities of other nerdy hobbies and fandoms. I'm a refugee from Star Wars, where I feel that this stuff completely took over and pushed out anything to do with Jedi or the Force. Maybe you haven't noticed this conversation before Custodes, but I'm completely and utterly burnt out on it from a decade of this crap. That's a consequence of my social media addiction, which is my own fault, but the truth is that this has been happing in plain sight where plenty of people have seen it. There's plenty of us in this thread talking about it, this isn't something one guy made up.

 

8 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

Just a heads up, this is about Custodes.

In the article they put up explaining why they have Female Custodes now they once again reiterated that Space Marines CANNOT be Female.

This has almost nothing to do with the gender of one faction or another, it is entirely about how Warhammer relates to the larger cultural conversation. Will they give in to one side or the other, how will they split the ground and justify it within the setting. That you're focused on Custodes is totally legit, but all of this meta discussion is on some people's minds. There's a reason that Space King is getting popular with memes like, "No Girls Allowed". 

[Robbienw]

10 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

I belive the Lore reason for them being Female Only was because they draw from the same pool the assasinorum uses for Culexus Assassins and they prefer male candidates so they claim all of them.

 

Also unlike the Custodes, the Sisters of Silence lorewise make a big deal out of being all ladies, including their literal name. I would hazard a guess that if they weren't literally called "Sisters of Silence" we would've had both sides of the Talons go unisex at once.

I dont recall that being stated as a reason in the lore.  It seems difficult to believe as well as, surely there are a lot less Culexus than SoS.  The ordo sinister wouldn’t take many either, they only had 25 Warlords plus some other classes or Titan.

 

The only reason it was made a big deal of them being Sisters was because the SoB didn’t exist in 30k and they wanted an all female force to mirror them in the CCG, plus the contrast with Custodes.  There is no need for that now.

[Scribe]

3 minutes ago, Wispy said:

if I did not know these particular individuals are just cynical about absolutely everything then it'd be impossible to not associate it with the background radiation projected by bad actors who use these sorts of developments as ammunition.

 

The irony being he multiple insinuations made in this thread by those who would seem to support the change, not being bad actors?

 

One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist.

[Indy Techwisp]

1 minute ago, Robbienw said:

I dont recall that being stated as a reason in the lore.  It seems difficult to believe as well as, surely there are a lot less Culexus than SoS.  The ordo sinister wouldn’t take many either, they only had 25 Warlords plus some other classes or Titan.

 

The only reason it was made a big deal of them being Sisters was because the SoB didn’t exist in 30k and they wanted an all female force to mirror them in the CCG, plus the contrast with Custodes.  There is no need for that now.

 

To be entirely fair, I wouldn't be annoyed or angry if GW did take the Sisters of Silence and refluff them into a Unisex Anathema Psykana.

They would definitely need a proper Lore reason tho, since unlike the Custodes the SoS did make a thing of being all female.

 

I do have a sneaking suspicion that there would be practically no "outcry" from that change tho, for some strange reason.

[Mogger351]

13 pages in and the posts about the minis/use without anything to do with retcons/genders probably barely fills 3 of them.

[Scribe]

Just now, Indy Techwisp said:

I do have a sneaking suspicion that there would be practically no "outcry" from that change tho, for some strange reason.

 

Because it would be a tit for tat response to an already logically flawed retcon that didnt need to happen?

 

Its boiling the frog slowly. Custodes, Studs of Silence, .. .. .. Female Marines.

[Nephaston]

5 hours ago, Uprising said:

Overall, These models are okay (Custodes never been my thing), but I really can't tell these models are female?  Should have given different chest plate and leg set like the stormcast range.  GW took the mid of the road and upset both parties at this point.  

 

They are different but it is very subtle, and as far as i can tell it is an even 3/3 split; 3 of the squad each have slightly smaller boots and slightly slimmer chests. I think it's easiest to see on this image of the sentinels.

 

It is however very subtle, even on close ups like these and will be even harder to tell on the tabletop.

[SvenIronhand]

5 minutes ago, Scribe said:

The irony being he multiple insinuations made in this thread by those who would seem to support the change, not being bad actors?

 

One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist.

Statements like this don't help your case. But of course, we both have to dance around the truth of the matters due to the forum rules being what they are — convenient how civility as a virtue stifles actual change, innit? However, you know what I think of you, and I know what you think of my lot. That said, my only wish for you, specifically, is for you to just unclench your fist and realize it's not really that important in the long run. 

[TheWarmaster]

The original Venatari jump packs were much, MUCH nicer. 
 

[SvenIronhand]

Just now, TheWarmaster said:

The original Venatari jump packs were much, MUCH nicer. 

I don't know. The new ones have an Archangel Michael vibe I really like, particularly the second one in this image's pose: 

[TheWarmaster]

6 minutes ago, SvenIronhand said:

I don't know. The new ones have an Archangel Michael vibe I really like, particularly the second one in this image's pose: 

Don’t get me wrong, I like them. I think I just preferred the profile of the originals. If you have a look at them on the Warhammer store on the 3D view and spin them around, they’re really cool. Like an Eagle. 
 

And I know the new ones are like an eagle too, I just preferred the old profile and shape. The exhaust vents/air intakes are very different now. 
 

I also liked the leather boots the originals wore. They had much more pared back armour. 

Edited January 17 by TheWarmaster

[Ahzek451]

2 minutes ago, SvenIronhand said:

That said, my only wish for you, specifically, is for you to just unclench your fist and realize it's not really that important in the long run. 

I think the irony here is that he could say the same thing. 

 

In either case. Shouldn't this female custode discussion be in its own thread. Fine to discuss, but consolidated to another location perhaps. 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

30 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

And if they are as ripped than the men, I totally expect there to be an outcry that female Cadian models (mostly) didn't cause. Not same proportion than with Custodes and Marines, as those are the top tier of that fantasy.

 

We've already seen EXACTLY that with the limited-edition Ripper Jackson model. It wasn't a sign or portent - it WAS an "as ripped than(sic) the men" model.

 

It was a "clear as can be" preview of what the eventual Catachan refresh will look like.

 

ZERO outcry.

 

Edited January 17 by Lord Nord in Gravis Armour

[hd3]

27 minutes ago, Norman Paperman said:

They were screaming on Reddit. They were screaming in the communities of other nerdy hobbies and fandoms. I'm a refugee from Star Wars, where I feel that this stuff completely took over and pushed out anything to do with Jedi or the Force. Maybe you haven't noticed this conversation before Custodes, but I'm completely and utterly burnt out on it from a decade of this crap. That's a consequence of my social media addiction, which is my own fault, but the truth is that this has been happing in plain sight where plenty of people have seen it. There's plenty of us in this thread talking about it, this isn't something one guy made up.

 

This has almost nothing to do with the gender of one faction or another, it is entirely about how Warhammer relates to the larger cultural conversation. Will they give in to one side or the other, how will they split the ground and justify it within the setting. That you're focused on Custodes is totally legit, but all of this meta discussion is on some people's minds. There's a reason that Space King is getting popular with memes like, "No Girls Allowed". 

 

I feel your pain brother. Dragon Age was one of my favourite game series.

[Scribe]

4 minutes ago, Ahzek451 said:

I think the irony here is that he could say the same thing. 

 

In either case. Shouldn't this female custode discussion be in its own thread. Fine to discuss, but consolidated to another location perhaps. 

 

I assume the mods are hoping it flames out.

[Crimson Longinus]

8 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

 Its not here to further our understanding of political structure.

 

Its not a vehicle for social change, and it shouldnt be. It should be a vehicle for getting together with other people, rolling some dice and shaking hands after.

 

Mate, it started out as political satire based on rich history of such satirical fiction. It of course is mainly entertainment, but saying it isn't, and should not try to be political at all, is a colossal misunderstanding of the source material and the history behind it. 

[Robbienw]

28 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

To be entirely fair, I wouldn't be annoyed or angry if GW did take the Sisters of Silence and refluff them into a Unisex Anathema Psykana.

They would definitely need a proper Lore reason tho, since unlike the Custodes the SoS did make a thing of being all female.

 

I do have a sneaking suspicion that there would be practically no "outcry" from that change tho, for some strange reason.

They didn’t need a proper lore reason with the Custodes, or Necrons, or Black Templars etc.  As in there was no in universe reason for the change, we just had an ‘it’s always been this way actually, ignore the old fluff behind the curtain’.

 

They could easily do that.  Would not be the first time a faction has been renamed.

 

Of course their would be consternation, every retcon that level causes some.

Edited January 17 by Robbienw

[Evil Eye]

Just now, Crimson Longinus said:

Mate, it started out as political satire based on rich history of such satirical fiction.

It started as an excuse for nerds to put their favourite sci-fi concepts and military history (because, you know, wargame) into a blender. Any "political satire" was window dressing at most. Not everything has to be some kind of vehicle for social change. Oh, and if I were you I'd not look up the original Orkish glyph for good/orky. Might get you a bit upset.

[phandaal]

22 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

The irony being he multiple insinuations made in this thread by those who would seem to support the change, not being bad actors?

 

It is pretty silly. Pages of "come on guys, we KNOW why you don't like it guys, we have a SEAKING SUSPICION about you guys" and multiple people like "yeah, it's because of this reason" and spelling it out. Plenty of us are attempting to hold out the olive branch to people who DO like the change. Shake hands and move on as it were.

 

I think what bugs the guys doing this is that no one who dislikes the change has apologized yet for having the bad opinion. It's the whole "but I called you X, that means I won the argument" style of online interaction that has been unfortunately bequeathed upon the world in recent years.

 

That said, this has been entertaining to read in between working on my next mini, doing housework, taking the family out, y'know, normal Saturday  stuff for a he-man woman hater. 

[Indy Techwisp]

1 minute ago, Robbienw said:

They didn’t need a proper lore reason with the Custodes, or Necrons, or Black Templars etc.  As in there was no in universe reason for the change, we just had an ‘it’s always been this way actually, ignore the old fluff behind the curtain’.

 

They could easily do that.  Would be the first time a faction has been renamed.

 

Of course their would be consternation, every retcon that level causes some.

 

Necrons getting changed 5 times with no Lore reasoning is why they made the next big refresh into a huge Lore thing with in-universe justification for it.

 

That next refresh was Primaris Marines and we still haven't seen the end of the fallout from that.

 

I think it makes complete sense for GW to decide not to try and do that again.

[Wispy]

13 minutes ago, Fire Golem said:

‘Extreme political causes’ ‘far left’. Get over yourself.

This is probably going to be moderated away but comments like the one I'm responded to are what I mean when it's hard to differentiate folks who are simply always ornorery curmudgeons & have been been for years and those who are being influenced by let's say "poisonous cultural moment."

 

It affects me too! I hate having to wonder if everything is some sort of agenda, it's my nature to want to call that crap out rather than engage in good faith.