The Castigators

[Commissar Molotov]

Genestealer stuff in the 4e codex:

 

There's the bit about Ichar IV, obviously. Not too much detail - the rebellion is stated to have a large Genestealer force at the core, but there's no real detail.

 

Lamarno: feral world where the Genestealers achieve total control. The tribesmen board the hive ships calmly when they arrive.

 

"A product of the continual evolution of the Genestealer race, the Broodlord is the consummate hand-to-hand warrior...A Tyranid vanguard organism, swarms led by Broodlords often precede the main Tyranid advance, infiltrating enemy positions before launching a devastating assault on the elements of the enemy most dangerous to the main Tyranid army."

 

That's pretty much it. I'd say that Broodlords =/= Patriarchs, but that's just me.

 

So there's no way of knowing if the Broodlord has supplanted the Patriarch or not. The Patriarch was always described as a "bloated Genestealer, grotesque in appearance and massive in proportion" - yet whilst the Patriarch was a psychic creature, the Broodlord seems to be focused around combat.

 

Lamarno was in the Second Edition Codex, so unfortunately that's nothing new. Although it does show the powers of the genestealer to infest and influence. This pdf file from Specialist-Games does make oblique references to 'cults' in Inquisitor, and there's a three-part adventure (here, here and here) centred around a Genestealer Cult on Medusa V...

 

Hrm - Xenology might be a useful reference...

 

Either way, I think I'm safe to have the Castigators attempting to cleanse the Hell Stars. :D

[Heru]

Indeed. There are a lot of stories about heroic missions by astartes to cleanse genestealer cults. A particular one stands out in my mind, about an Ultramarines librarian leading a force of terminators into a city to wipe out the cult.

Wasn't that Ichar IV?

 

 

So there's no way of knowing if the Broodlord has supplanted the Patriarch or not. The Patriarch was always described as a "bloated Genestealer, grotesque in appearance and massive in proportion" - yet whilst the Patriarch was a psychic creature, the Broodlord seems to be focused around combat.

I doubt it, because of precisely that. The Patriarch was what called the Tyranids to the world, and in order to do that he had to be psychic. Now I'm also pretty sure that this doesn't mean that a Broodlord can't become a Patriarch if necessary like other Genestealers.

 

 

Either way, I think I'm safe to have the Castigators attempting to cleanse the Hell Stars. ;)

I'm not so sure, I believe the Imperium never really thought about dealing the the Ymgarl Genestealers because despite the fact that they would sometimes end up all over the place traveling on Space Hulks they were pretty restricted in exactly what they did (ie floating around in Hulks and doing whatever they did on/in the Moons of Ymgarl). Also I'm pretty sure that the Genestealers the Imperium had been facing didn't make Genestealer Cults (the Ymgarl Genestealer was considered is considered a stranded Tyranid Xenotype like the Catachan Devil afterall), so it generally brings into question at least for me how the Genestealers would have maintained a significant infestation in the Hellstars when previously they'd been restricted to Ymgarl's moons (ie one set of moons in one system) and Space Hulks.

[brother varen]

The broodlord entry says:

 

Imperial Designation: Broodlord

Common name: Leech-master

Species name: Corporaptor Primus

 

"A product of the continual evolution of the genestealer race, the Broodlord is the consummate hand-to-hand warrior. Lightning-fast and frighteningly strong, its diamond-hard claws can rip through adamantium as through it were silk. A tyranid vanguard organism, swarms led by broodlords often precede the main tyranid advance, infiltrating enemy positions before launching a devastating assualt on the elements of the enemy most dangerous to the main tyranid army."

 

In my opinion, this would make the broodlord a type of lieutentant to the Patriarch. Or a champion?

 

I think would make a good story for a Castigator hero to take on a broodlord ;)

[Commissar Molotov]

I'm not so sure, I believe the Imperium never really thought about dealing the the Ymgarl Genestealers because despite the fact that they would sometimes end up all over the place traveling on Space Hulks they were pretty restricted in exactly what they did (ie floating around in Hulks and doing whatever they did on/in the Moons of Ymgarl). Also I'm pretty sure that the Genestealers the Imperium had been facing didn't make Genestealer Cults (the Ymgarl Genestealer was considered is considered a stranded Tyranid Xenotype like the Catachan Devil afterall), so it generally brings into question at least for me how the Genestealers would have maintained a significant infestation in the Hellstars when previously they'd been restricted to Ymgarl's moons (ie one set of moons in one system) and Space Hulks.

 

Mainly because of the quote in the Second Edition Codex: Tyranids, printed further up this post. Specifically the bit suggesting that in the wake of Behemoth, Inquisitors 'intensified their scrutiny for Genestealer infestations...' - they must've been around somewhere, and they must've previously infested worlds before the Inquisition had evidence to link them with the Tyranids. I'm hardly suggesting every single planet had a cult and it was one giant genestealer holiday camp, but that the Castigators were out for blood and quite happy to throw their weight around.

[Barret]

I'm almost 100% positive Genestealer Cults are still around and haven't been retconned out. They might not be a viable army choice any more, but they're still there. I'll take a look through the newest Tyranid 'dex when I get home. There's also two of the Ciaphus Cain books which centre around 'stealer cult activities.

 

As for Patriarchs and Brood Lords, I'm inclined to think they're different entities, although I used the terms interchangeably in Sword and Claw. If I recall correctly, a Patriarch is brought about by several generations of 'stealer infected humans breeding while a Brood Lord seems to be a specific bio-engineered vanguard organism. I'm trying to remember where I've read it, but the life cycle of a 'stealer cult has been documented in a few places.

[Commissar Molotov]

The Patriarch is the original (oldest) genestealer - the first one to infect the humans. As the cult develops, it grows larger and its psychic powers grow too - it begins to draw the Hive Fleets in on its location.

 

Judging from the background posted by Brother Varen and the way the Broodlord is being presented as 'a product of the continual evolution' of genestealers, I suppose it's meant to be something relatively new (though I think the Apocalypse book has a Behemoth Battle-report that features genestealers with Broodlords...)

[Heru]

Mainly because of the quote in the Second Edition Codex: Tyranids, printed further up this post. Specifically the bit suggesting that in the wake of Behemoth, Inquisitors 'intensified their scrutiny for Genestealer infestations...' - they must've been around somewhere, and they must've previously infested worlds before the Inquisition had evidence to link them with the Tyranids. I'm hardly suggesting every single planet had a cult and it was one giant genestealer holiday camp, but that the Castigators were out for blood and quite happy to throw their weight around.

Actually what I was trying to put forth (at the same time as trying to say something else no-less) is that there is a difference between a Genestealer Infestation (pre-Behemoth) and a Genestealer Cult (post-Behemoth). If we look at the 2nd Edition Tyranid Codex (I assume you have that one Mol? - see the Genestealer entry if you do), the Imperium believed Genestealers to be a native species to Ymgarl (ie like Tigers here on Earth rather than a geniune thread species like Orks), there was no direct connection between Genestealers and Cult activity until the Genestealer Cults that emerged just prior to Kraken. So I'm willing to believe that Genestealer Infestations (ie seperated from the Hive Mind) were different than the later following Genestealer Cults (which appeared amongst local populace on Imperial worlds).

 

But whatever. :devil:

 

 

 

Edit: On the subject of Broodlords perhaps they aren't apart of Genestealer Cults at all, perhap they are exclusively fielded by the Tyranids just prior to an assault. Broodlords after all are Synapse creatures, while Genestealer Patriarchs on the other hand don't know they are even Tyranids until the Fleet arrives. I mean look at it this way the Hive Fleet doesn't field Genestealer Hybrids, Magi, or Patriarchs in it's Tyranid Swarm, but it does field Broodlords and Genestealers.

[Nash Trickster]

On the subject of Ymgarl stealers:

I've always read the mention of the "relative harmlessness of Genestealers pre-Behemoth" in the Imperial PoV as simply meaning that stealers were deemed a minor threat compared to the "true space fairing races", they were quite easily contained by destroying infected Space Hulks and by "rooting out" the cults (regardless of the lives lost in the process).

 

But after Behemoth, the true nature of Genestealers having been revealed and a few Inquisitors (rightly) guessing the role of cults as "psychic beacon", it was deemed that the threat they posed was in fact a major one...

 

=====

 

I've been putting quite a bit of thought into the relation between Patriarches and Brood Lords and came to the conclusion that the "bloated" aspect of Genestealer Patriarchs may very well be only a side-effect of the Cult's growth...

 

As the numbers of the cult increase, the Patriarch is forced into more and more physical inactivity, focusing all his attention to the psychic bound with the infected. However, the Genestealer's base metabolism being high, an active Genestealer would feed often and in large quantities to get the energy it needs. Since a Patriarch wouldn't change its diet, it would thus slowly become "fat", maybe even incapable of moving by its own...

We know Patriarches evolve in their abilities, and, by the time the Cult reaches the 4th generation, become able to "control" the purebreed. They evolve physically too, becoming bigger (as in "taller and stronger"). Thus, if you don't take in consideration the "bloated" aspect, a Patriarch then looks a lot more like a Brood Lord...

 

Thus, a Brood Lord and a Patriarch may very well be the same basic organism (the same evolution of a "normal" Genestealer), however, the mass mind-control imposed on Patriarches pushes them into physical inactivity and to become fat... A Patriach could simply be the "couch-potato" version of a Brood Lord.

 

Just a theory.

[brother varen]

since this debate, i have gone through and found the following:

 

Genestealer Patriarch -This is the oldest and most venerated Purestrain genestealer in the force, often already over 100 years old. The genestealers under his command are all his decendants, engendered long ago when he was the patriarch of a family of genestealer hybrids and their human parents, before his progeny began their search for new worlds to colonise.

 

from White Dwarf issue#115 pg.72

 

 

Genestealer Patriarch - The Patriarch is the ancient Purestrain Genestealer who is the progenitor of the entire brood. He would be venerated as head, even if the brood had not become a chaos cult.

 

from White Dwarf issue#116 pg.59

 

hope this helps ;)

[Commissar Molotov]

Well, we're starting to drift a little from what I'm aiming for - I don't need an in-depth deconstruction of a Genestealer cult, but mainly to see if they're still viable in 5th edition. They seem to be - there were cults on Medusa V - but the secondary question is whether Genestealers were infesting and creating 'cults' before Kraken. (If you follow Heru's argument, then pre-Ichar IV, there were no true 'Cults'.)

 

This then ties into whether Sirius can conduct the Hellstar Purge.

 

It also occurs to me that Castigators, with their focus on genetic purity, would detest the idea of a genestealer hybrid.

[Nash Trickster]

but the secondary question is whether Genestealers were infesting and creating 'cults' before Kraken. (If you follow Heru's argument, then pre-Ichar IV, there were no true 'Cults'.)

Well, that was what I was adressing with the first part of my previous post. (Even though I must admit that I then went into a huge OT bit...)

 

I guess the question finds its answer easily though:

1) The Deathwing is supposed to have been painting its armours in the bone-white colors for quite a long time before Behemoth's arrival.

2) We know this particular aspect of the Deathwing finds its source in some of the DA fighting a 'Stealer "infestation".

3)We know from the story Deathwing itself that there were 'Stealer Magi on Plains World. Since there can't be Magi before the 4th generation, we know the 'stealers on that planet had went through the whole infestation process as described in Genestealer Cults post-Behemoth.

4)What happened on Plains World is most likely not an exception.

Thus, I guess one can safely say that there were indeed Genestealer Cults pre-Behemoth. QFD!

It also occurs to me that Castigators, with their focus on genetic purity, would detest the idea of a genestealer hybrid.

Which makes fighting 'Stealer Cults more than fitting for the Castigators. It'd boil down to avanging their UM brethren by getting rid of xenos-hybrid abominations... I guess they'd see it as killing 2 birds with one stone :P

[Commissar Molotov]

I guess the question finds its answer easily though:

1) The Deathwing is supposed to have been painting its armours in the bone-white colors for quite a long time before Behemoth's arrival.

2) We know this particular aspect of the Deathwing finds its source in some of the DA fighting a 'Stealer "infestation".

3)We know from the story Deathwing itself that there were 'Stealer Magi on Plains World. Since there can't be Magi before the 4th generation, we know the 'stealers on that planet had went through the whole infestation process as described in Genestealer Cults post-Behemoth.

4)What happened on Plains World is most likely not an exception.

Thus, I guess one can safely say that there were indeed Genestealer Cults pre-Behemoth. QFD!

 

There's an extensive thread in the Dark Angels forum where Octavulg tries to reliably date the Plains World incident. Still, that's a very good point that the Genestealers there were pre-Behemoth (as far as I remember). So you're probably right, Nash. :blink: Thanks!

 

In other news, I'm overhauling IA: Castigators because I'm not pleased with it. I want to make it a true "summary" and to get rid of the awkward bits that haven't worked. I'm hoping that I can make it useful, and then it'll be a PDF download from the updated site (if you want the summary as opposed to the in-depth work.)

 

As always, work progresses with these crimson-clad zealots. :tu:

[Tyrannicide]

What bits didn't exactly work in your eyes Mol, and furthermore are you pin-pointing any parts that need more work in the article's overhaul?

[Commissar Molotov]

There are a lot of niggly bits where I've repeated words - I'd like to get rid of those. I really need people to go through it on a line-by-line basis and to criticise. Heaven knows, I deserve it. ;) I'm not keen on the origins section - I'm not sure it conveys the point about the Castigators well. The first paragraph is, I think, relatively weak. I'm not sure if it just contains too much exposition.

 

I think the homeworld needs to be clarified to explain certain things Octavulg found objectionable previously. I want to add some more information without overloading the piece.

 

I'd like to make Organisation interesting, along with Combat Doctrine, too. I also think that for the PDF, I should have a sidebar of some description, and I'm not sure whether I should take something out, or add something - it would need to be something that adds to the inherent themes, though.

[Tyrannicide]

I think the article is pretty solid, but then again I've only previously written one and it was just plain mediocre. I am however, inclined to agree with the organization and combat doctrine sections. Compared to the rest of the IA they're only slightly above average. I believe those two sections are the hardest to make them stand-out amongst the rest of the article. It's difficult to make them keenly interesting.

[Commissar Molotov]

'Keenly interesting'... I think that's my goal, then. To ensure the IA is 'keenly interesting' - to ensure it's conveying the themes and the ideals that I want the Castigators to convey.

 

P

art of the fourteenth founding of the Legionnes Astartes, the Castigators have gained a reputation as staunch and stalwart guardians of the Imperium. In the millennia since their inception, the Chapter has carved its name into the annals of Imperial history on countless occasions, ensuring their name is spoken with respect by friend and foe alike.

 

As with fully two-thirds of all Space Marine Chapters, the Castigators were formed from the gene-seed of Roboute Guilliman, Primarch of the Ultramarines. When the Adeptus Mechanicus created the castigators, only the purest progenoid glands were used - an excessive measure considering the exemplary nature of Guilliman's gene-stock. It is said the Genetor-Magi considered and then discarded many perfectly usable progenoid glands in his efforts.

 

The reasons for these drastic measures would seem to be rooted in the after-effects of the thirteenth Astartes founding, the so-called 'Dark Founding'. All records relating to this tumultuous time has long since been eradicated or lost, leaving behind only supposition and assumption. Those aware of exactly what transpired would seem unprepared to divulge their secrets. Whatever occured, it is clear that the myopic focus upon genetic purity during the founding of the Castigators affected them deeply to this day.

 

The Chapter's first Master was a Black Consul by the name of Baraquiel. He was known by his men as 'The Castigator', and was possessed with a fervent desire to purge the enemies of the Emperor for their transgressions. When given the command of the nascent chapter, he bestowed the name 'Castigators' upon it, hoping to inspire the same righteous fury in its warriors. The Chapter, once founded headed deep within the Ultima Segmentum on a campaign to prove its worth in the Emperor's service.

 

As I've said, I'm not necessarily keen on how this is structured. I really want a punchy introduction to the article, but not something which is just a "ZOMG THE CASTIGATORS ARE AWESOME!" - I want to refine it so that it doesn't seem bland. At the moment, the two sentences in that paragraph seem to be saying the same thing in two different ways. It's probably a legacy of having to go through so many drafts. I took out that sentence with the three campaigns that served as examples of the combat prowess of the Castigators. It seemed as though they were just names shoved in to give the Chapter some gravitas. It felt cheap, and so I took it out. Yet I'm not sure where to go with it.

 

The thirteenth/fourteenth dichotomy is something I want to preserve, but at the moment it seems awakwardly written. I'm keen to portray the fact that extreme methods were used during the founding of the Castigators - extreme methods that laid the foundation for their own obsession with genetic purity. Next, Baraquiel. I don't want to become myopic with him - too many articles focus around the Chapter Master as a pivotal figure. Whilst instrumental in their founding - he exacerbated their sense of righteousness and helped gestate that bellicose personality that would become the archetypal Castigator - whilst he found and chose Losanco - I don't want to focus around him. He needs to be there, but I need to work on how to describe him. I'm not sure if it's done well enough.

 

I also cut out the paragraph detailing the AdMech giving them a battle-barge - it's not needed, I think. All Chapters would be given equipment and materiel - so I've ditched it. The key thing, in my opinion, is ending the 'origins' section with them entering the Ultima Segmentum. It lets me tie in with the Homeworld section properly.

 

Homeworld

U

pon the tenth anniversary of the Chapter's founding, the Castigators found the small world of Losanco Secundus within an area known as the Hell Stars. The planet was a celestial anomaly; one of only a handful in the Imperium known to have a 'tidally locked' orbit. The time the planet took to rotate on its axis and the time it took to orbit the system's star were exactly the same. This odd circumstance meant that one half of the planet was shrouded in perpetual darkness whilst the other basked in permanent light and debilitating radiation. The planet should never have sustained life and yet, it did.

 

It appeared that millennia ago, an Imperial vessel had crashed onto Losanco. The descendents of those few survivors clung to the barely habitable dark-side, surviving on the last remnants of the failing technology, subjected to the intense cold. Many of the planet's highest peaks were swathed in ice. Life was an unending struggle against the elements for survival, a struggle that ensured only the strongest could survive. Food was scarce, grown by dim moonlight in areas where streams of warm air reached the dark-side.

 

By contrast, those few cursed individuals that existed in the eternal day were mutated almost beyond recognition. Losancan legends suggested to the dark-siders that one day the Emperor would appear, bringing light and tranquillity to its troubled people and transforming the planet into a verdant paradise. The legends continued to state that He would only appear when the planet was 'deserving' - when it was freed from the blight of mutants and witches.

 

The dark-siders had grown to blame the mutants for their predicament, learning to fear and hate the mutants with what had become an almost instinctual loathing for imperfection and disease. Babies showing even the most minor of malformations were hurriedly and quietly killed by their own mothers or families, such was the stigma of giving birth to a mutant offspring. This hatred of mutation extended beyond the physical form - those children that displayed burgeoning psychic abilities were killed in public ceremonies of devotion to the Emperor. Small bands of brave and pious individuals would often lead expeditions to the bright-side to try to eradicate the mutants' blasphemous scourge from the planet's surface. Although these primitive individuals had no concept of radiation, they knew that should they spend too long on the bright side, they would weaken and die. Only the hardiest (some would say most fool-hardy) undertook such missions.

 

This dichotomy between light and dark struck a chord in Baraquiel's soul. Their eternal fight against corruption convinced him that they could serve as a potential source of future Castigators. He ordered a series of rigorous tests to confirm their genetic purity. Once he received the results, the Chapter began construction of their Fortress-Monastery buried deep within the moon of Losanco Secundus. Known as 'The Sanctuary', it is here that all the records of the Castigators' actions are kept, where the trophies won by the Chapter are stored, and where the marines train. A large part of the fortress is given over to places of worship; indeed, each Company maintains its own extensive chapel. These massive structures provide both a place of worship and a record of war. Campaign banners and Company standards drape the walls; the armour and accoutrements of long-dead heroes remain displayed to inspire the living. Many of the chapels hold the spoils of war. Every marine whose body has been recovered is laid to rest within the Chapels' crypts. These sacred tombs are also where the Dreadnoughts of the chapter are allowed to rest; remaining alongside their dead comrades until the chapter calls them into service.

 

The Losancans saw the Castigators' actions and came to see them as terrible angels, ferocious emissaries of a God-Emperor that watch over them ceaselessly to ensure they carry out their divine task - the purification of their homeworld. The Castigators are fully aware of the native legends, and have even fostered them simply because they help promote hatred of the mutants. Those children amongst the bands that travel to the light-side to fight the mutants are secretly observed by the Castigators' Chaplains. If one is found worthy, the Chaplain will approach the warband and take the child to become one of His angels.

 

This section I'm somewhat wary of - it's meant to be one of the most important in the article. Losanco reflects and encapsulates so many of the themes within the Castigators. I want to do a proper job on it. So I'm stuck between my obligation to describe Losanco whilst highlighting those themes and the fact that I don't want to overload the reader. I need to describe Baraquiel's reaction to the planet whilst also describing their fortress-monastery. As a result, I'm not convinced I'm doing either justice, yet.

 

I also know that Octavulg had some concerns that the humans couldn't survive, and that I need to restate their circumstances to make it that bit more viable. Hopefully I can make them seem interesting.

 

Battlefield Doctrine

R

oboute Guilliman's Codex Astartes is considered a holy text by the Castigators, and the Brothers of the Chapter hold themselves to the same high standards as the Ultramarines, adhering faithfully to its dogma. War is the reason for the Chapter's existence, and the Castigators seek to prepare for it well. Before each battle, the force gathers together in prayer to affirm their faith. The higher ranks of the chapter - especially Captains and Chaplains - are known as skilled orators and they put these skills to good use, rousing a righteous fury in the hearts and minds of those beneath them. When the chapter fights, it is sustained by a deeply-held belief that they are the guardians of humanity. It is their divine duty to defend the Emperor's flock, and they will not accept failure in what they consider to be the holiest of all endeavours.

 

As Space Marines of the Adeptus Astartes, practical issues dictate the Castigators' tactical orthodoxy to a degree. The limited numbers of the Chapter ensure that they are not used as a blunt instrument like the numberless masses of the Imperial Guard. The Castigators could be considered a predominantly attacking force, mounting and executing rapid, overwhelming assaults that ensure the Space Marines always maintain the initiative. Indeed, the Commanders of the Chapter would accept a traditional battle only on the most favourable of terms, or if necessity dictated. Drop-podding troops and thunderhawk-deployed vehicles can rapidly assault the enemy. Tactical and Devastator squads can suppress the enemy with skilled gunfire before the Chapter's Assault Marines descend upon them. Faced with such decisive force, the enemy simply cannot resist.

 

When called upon to defend ground, the Castigators raise icons of faith and sacred standards high before planting them into the ground, vowing to make the enemy pay a heavy price for each step taken. They will grimly fight to the last whilst inflicting as much damage as possible upon enemy forces, asking no quarter and giving none. The Castigators are ferocious warriors, known on occasion to fight to the last man rather than admit defeat. Battles against the chapter are always bloody and hard-fought, simply because the Castigators refuse to retreat unless their commanders order such. As part of their defensive strategy, the Castigators will attempt to disrupt their attackers. Assault forces undertaking skillfully-executed raids can cause huge amounts of damage before rapidly disengaging. Scouts can sabotage enemy materiel or assassinate prominent leaders, even going so far as to teleport the Chapter's Terminators into an enemy camp to brutally decapitate them.

 

During protracted campaigns, the Castigators have been known to establish firebases (also known as Castellum) from which they can operate. Whilst such circumstances are relatively rare, as the Brothers of the Chapter would prefer to remain mobile (and can typically rely upon the vessels of the Castigators' fleet) these bases can provide a venue to repair, rearm and supply the forces, as well as providing a solid redoubt from which to assault their foes.

 

Because of the chapter's unflinching bravery, even the Collegiate Strategos has paid tribute to the Castigators, its annals acknowledging them as one of the finest examples of the Imperial maxim 'death before dishonour'. The Castigators are determined, stubborn warriors, determined to struggle to victory whatever the cost. Whilst some have criticised the Castigators for their tactics, the Chapter has - thus far successfully - refuted these statements, claiming that rather than single-mindedly fighting their way into certain death, they judge their fights well to ensure that the enemy is eradicated. To the Castigators, a wasteful death is pointless, but a justified death is the greatest honour.

 

My concern in this section is having something to say - the Castigators adhere to the Codex Astartes, but I'm keen to emphasise how they're different, whilst making this section long enough not to be a complete waste. Thoughts are welcome here.

 

Chapter Organisation

I

n accordance with the Codex Astartes, the Castigators maintain ten Companies of Marines. The first consists of the Chapter's veterans, the most skilled warriors who have received additional training, particularly in the use of Terminator armour. The Chapter possesses only twenty-one venerated suits of Terminator Armour, and these are worn by the greatest warriors in the chapter. When not in use they occupy positions of honour in the First Company's Chapel of Heroes. Should a Terminator fall, the techmarines will painstakingly repair the armour so that it may see battle again. The first company typically disperses to fight alongside the battle-companies, allowing the more experienced warriors to impart their wisdom to their brethren.

 

The second, third, fourth and fifth companies are the battle-companies, each with a mixture of tactical, devastator and assault squads. With such a variety of squads, the Battle Companies are highly flexible and tactically adaptable. Indeed, a typical force deployed by the Castigators will be centred around a Battle-Company, with attached elements from other Companies.

 

The sixth and seventh companies are tactical reserve companies; the eighth and ninth are assault and devastator reserve companies, respectively. The Reserve Companies often fight support of their brethren in the Battle-Companies, reinforcing battle lines, launching diversionary attacks or countering enemy assaults. In addition, the Marines of the Reserve Company can be transferred into the Battle-Companies to replace casualties sustained. The Castigators' tenth company, the scout company, is small when compared to other chapters of the Adeptus Astartes, mainly due to the chapter's extremely thorough recruitment processes. Much like the first company, the scouts almost never fight as one force. Instead they are assigned to the battle companies where they can gain experience alongside their elders.

 

Librarians

The newly-created Castigators chapter had a number of Librarians, drawn from the Black Consuls. During their initial ten-year crusade, the Castigators also recruited a number of psychically-gifted initiates from the worlds they fought upon. As the original Librarians died out, and the Castigators continued to recruit from a world where the pyschic population was eradicated, the chapter began to absorb the Losancan belief system. They could no longer countenance 'witches' sullying the chapter's name, and as such the responsibility of keeping a record of the chapter's history was given to ordinary brother-marines who adopted the role of 'Librarian'. Now each of the Castigators' brother-marines will undertake a period of service in the chapter's Librarium once every decade, working to duplicate ancient texts and to pass on the stories of the Castigators' past. These 'Librarians' accompany Company Captains, recording the chapter's history, recounting tales of battles fought throughout the millennia, and learning lessons from the actions of others. This allows every battle-brother to be intimately familiar with the chapter's history of warfare.

 

Techmarines

Like the majority of Space Marine chapters, the Castigators honour ancient pacts with the Adeptus Mechanicus that stretch back millennia to their very founding. Those amongst the Castigators with an affinity for technology are dispatched to Mars, where they are initiated into the Martian tech-cults. This is acknowledged as a necessary process - without the techmarines, the Adeptus Astartes would be left unable to tend to the machine spirits, to observe the rites that ensure continued operation of their wargear, or to repair damage taken on the field of battle. But the process comes at a lamentable price - the loss of battle-brothers to the worship of the Omnissiah. The techmarines are mysterious and capricious, aloof and distant. Their inscrutable ways are not easily understood by most of the battle-brethren. Indeed, some of the more zealous factions among the chapter distrust the techmarines. To them, the worship of the Omnissiah is at best dangerous, and at worst heretical. It is a duty of the Chapter Master to ensure that these ideological tensions are defused and that no blood is spilt. It is said that some of the Castigators' techmarines struggle their entire lives to resolve the differences between their chapter's creed and the dictates of the Liber Mechanicus. These tortured souls keep their distance from their beloved battle-brothers that hate them so, seeking solace among the lobotomised servitors and the machine-spirits that inhabit the chapter's equipment.

 

The way that the "Librarians" and "Techmarines" sections are included here is terrible. I'm inclined to remove the Techmarine section entirely and save that for the site. The Librarians are important, though. Again, here I want to make the Castigators distinct and interesting.

 

Chapter Cult and Belief System

T

enacity and zealous passion are qualities valued by the Castigators. Life on Losanco Secundus ensures that the Chapter's recruits are strong-willed, used to hardship and driven by a heartfelt desire to hunt and destroy deviants and mutants. The chapter fosters this intolerance for mutants in its recruits, regarding them as an abomination against the Emperor, to be exterminated with extreme prejudice. The threat of the mutant is so great that the Castigators put themselves, and their greatest prize - their purity - in harm's way to battle the enemies of the Emperor. Much like the people of Losanco Secundus fighting the mutants of the day-side, the Castigators sacrifice all that is dear to them to rid the Imperium of a greater taint. It is a thankless task, but the Castigators undertake the challenge willingly.

 

The Chaos powers are abhorred by the chapter, despised for their warping touch. Those that have allowed themselves to submit to temptation and fall to Chaos are especially hated by the Castigators. As far as they are concerned, it is unthinkable to allow oneself to stray from the Emperor's path and into the worship of the Dark Gods. Those that submit to the dark powers are weak and must be killed before their heresy can corrupt others. The Castigators are known to have participated in several protracted engagements against Chaos Space Marines, including the so-called 'Harvesters' chapter and the Word Bearers legion, for whom the Castigators harbour a special hatred.

 

The Castigators are known to adhere to philosophies that could be compared to Inquisitor Goldo's principles of Monodomination. They are utterly ruthless and unforgiving when it comes to those they perceive as aiding the enemies of the Imperium. Mutants, aliens, psykers and religious deviants are all to be called to account for their activities. The only punishment for those who stray from the Emperor's path is death. The Castigators are utterly devoted to this belief and have in the past even been openly hostile towards loyalist Space Marines they have perceived to have a mutated or debased gene-seed. They utterly refuse to work alongside aliens such as Eldar or Kroot.

 

Whilst some have called the Castigators overly aggressive, narrow-minded, or bigoted, none can deny the fervour with which they go about their tasks. The Castigators have influential allies that allow them to continue unmolested; some traditional and puritan Inquisitors have gone so far as to openly applaud the Castigators, seeing their actions as those of the truly faithful. The chapter has worked in concert with puritan elements of the Emperor's Inquisition on several occasions throughout its history. It is not uncommon for such Inquisitors to work with militant cults in the Imperium such as the Redemptionists to create frenzied mobs and stir up hatred, intolerance and xenophobia amongst planetary populations. These beliefs are similar to those of the Castigators, and this has lead to them aiding such cults at the urging of an Inquisitor.

 

Above all, the Castigators revere the Emperor for His sacrifice and for all He had to endure to ensure that humanity survived the dark days of the Horus Heresy. He surrendered more than most can even imagine. Many of the chapter's marines commit acts of self-mutilation in an attempt to further their own spiritual growth. These acts are overlooked by the Chapter's commanders, as they encourage piety. The pain is welcomed, and is a small price to pay for understanding even a small sliver of the Emperor's suffering and sacrifice. The Castigators look upon the Chapter's Dreadnoughts with awe. This is in part because chapter reveres these warriors for the heroic deeds they achieved in life, and also because they echo the Emperor Himself - their bodies are shattered but still they continue to fight the enemies of Humankind. Their courage, determination and tenacity are an example which every marine in the chapter strives to emulate. The ancient warriors encased within these sarcophagi can prove devastating on the field, and company Captains often seek their counsel before committing their forces.

 

It has been noted by Imperial observers that the Castigators grudgingly tolerate both the Astropaths and those of the Navigator Gene. This has led some to criticise the Castigators' belief system as hypocritical. The Castigators roundly refute such allegations, arguing that both institutions were created and sanctioned by the Emperor - just as the Adeptus Astartes were.

 

In memory of their auspicious founding, every fourteen years those companies not currently engaged in battle meet at the Sanctuary. Battle-brothers, comrades and friends are allowed to meet and honour their success together. Great trophies are brought back to the fortress monastery and relics are paraded in front of the assembled marines. Each and every dreadnought in the chapter is awoken and great prayer services are held to honour the fallen, to remember the great moments of the chapter's history and to reaffirm oaths of loyalty, piety and faith. Captured banners are paraded, the heads of defeated foes exhibited and the manner of their capture and defeat recalled with grim detail. The ceremonies last for fourteen days and then the chapter disperses once more to where they are needed to continue the protection of the Imperium of Man. Neophytes inducted into the chapter during this two-week period are seen as blessed and are usually predicted to become great warriors.

 

My biggest concern here is paragraph structure - I don't think it follows a logical progression. Instead it seems a little jumbled, and I'd appreciate other peoples' thoughts on this issue.

 

Gene-seed

Y

ears uncounted of rigorous gene-screening practices have inculcated an obsession for genetic purity within the Castigators. Having descended from the Black Consuls, the Brothers of the Chapter take pride in the fact that they are able to trace their genetic lineage back to Roboute Guilliman of the Ultramarines. The Ultramarines themselves are renowned for possessing the purest of all loyalist legions' gene-seeds, and that purity has been inherited by their successors.

 

The Castigators' Apothecaries demand absolute and total excellence in ensuring this purity is maintained. Great stead is placed on health and purity, and the Apothecarion makes sure that only the strongest and healthiest of Losanco Secundus' populace are selected to become marines. The trials for neophytes are particularly stringent, and the Apothecaries take great care to ensure that the gene-seed does not develop flaws or mutate in any way. Any neophytes that exhibit signs of mutation are dissected as subjects of study in an attempt to determine what went wrong. Progenoid glands extracted from dead marines may not be implanted if there is any suggestion that they may be tainted.

 

This unyielding thoroughness means that the Castigators replace losses at a slower rate than in most marine chapters. In recent years there have been few occasions when the Castigators have been at full chapter strength. The Castigators contend, however, that their rigidly maintained purity makes them more than a match for their foes.

 

This is a decent enough section - unsure what people think could be added or altered here. Suggestions are certainly welcome, though.

[Octavulg]

staunch and stalwart guardians of the Imperium.

 

Staunch and stalwart mean pretty much the same thing, making this a little redundant.

 

In the millennia since their inception, the Chapter has carved its name into the annals of Imperial history on countless occasions, ensuring their name is spoken with respect by friend and foe alike.

 

The last bit is a bit repetitive (name).

 

Perhaps something like: "ensuring they are respected by friend and foe alike."

 

Or "feared by friend and foe alike." This is the Imperium.

 

Chapter Symbol

 

You really need to work Korhal in here somewhere. I'm just saying. :o

 

Wait...perhaps...Losanco is...

 

It isn't, is it? </joke>

 

As with fully two-thirds of all Space Marine Chapters,

 

Points for quoting pretty much exactly, loss of points for quoting such a weak line. I'd cut the "fully" bit, myself. It just feels off.

 

Also, exact quotes aren't exactly what you want in your IA, no?

 

It is said the Genetor-Magi considered and then discarded many perfectly usable progenoid glands in his efforts.

 

In the line before this, you forgot to capitalize Castigators.

 

Also, you're mixing up your plural/singular here. Pick one.

 

The reasons for these drastic measures would seem to be rooted in the after-effects of the thirteenth Astartes founding, the so-called 'Dark Founding'. All records relating to this tumultuous time has long since been eradicated or lost, leaving behind only supposition and assumption. Those aware of exactly what transpired would seem unprepared to divulge their secrets. Whatever occured, it is clear that the myopic focus upon genetic purity during the founding of the Castigators affected them deeply to this day.

 

I am uncomfortable with this characterization of the Dark Founding, as I have mentioned many times. Why you guys couldn't use the 22nd Founding for this, I'm still not clear.

 

The Chapter, once founded headed deep within the Ultima Segmentum on a campaign to prove its worth in the Emperor's service.

 

'Once founded, the Chapter' might flow a little better.

 

* * *

 

one of only a handful in the Imperium known to have a 'tidally locked' orbit.

 

Handful seems low, somehow.

 

The descendents of those few survivors clung to the barely habitable dark-side, surviving on the last remnants of the failing technology, subjected to the intense cold.

 

A ) A little heavy on 'survive' in there.

B ) It might be possible to be confused about whether the tech or the people is subjected to the cold.

C ) Surviving on makes it sound kind of like they're eating the circuitry. :o

 

It reads a little awkwardly at the moment. Personally, I'd try: The descendants of those few survivors clung to the barely habitable dark-side, surviving with the last remnants of their failing technology and subjected to the intense cold.

 

Many of the planet's highest peaks were swathed in ice.

 

If it's so cold, wouldn't most of the planet be?

 

Babies showing even the most minor of malformations were hurriedly and quietly killed by their own mothers or families, such was the stigma of giving birth to a mutant offspring.

 

Again. You really need to read the Chrysalids.

 

Only the hardiest (some would say most fool-hardy) undertook such missions.

 

Too much 'hardy', IMO. Perhaps just 'foolish'.

 

* * *

 

even going so far as to teleport the Chapter's Terminators into an enemy camp to brutally decapitate them.

 

Makes it sound like the Terminators are gonna take the time to cut the head off everyone in the camp.

 

* * *

 

Overall, it might be best to try and tone back the use of the actual name of the Chapter (notably in the Battlefield Doctrines and Beliefs sections). It's kinda hard to write without it, I agree, but reading the same name every other sentence gets kinda wearying. One point on the Geneseed section. You say "great stead on", when I have only ever seen "great stead in".

 

Oh, and regarding homeworld plausibility - some throaway line about how life is marginally possible near the border between light and dark. Which really ought to make the planet a better metaphor for humanity, no?

 

Keep in mind you're still well below official IA length. Remain calm.

 

I'll address your own concerns with it in the morning/afternoon. I thought it best to get this up before events moved on without me.

[Commissar Molotov]

Staunch and stalwart mean pretty much the same thing, making this a little redundant.

 

Absolutely. I liked the alliterative aspect of it, though. I do agree entirely that it should be removed. I have my concerns with that initial introductory paragraph anyway. I don't think it conveys enough of what the Castigators are about. You could change the Chapter name in that paragraph and use it for any Chapter in the Liber, really.

 

The last bit is a bit repetitive (name).

 

Perhaps something like: "ensuring they are respected by friend and foe alike."

 

Or "feared by friend and foe alike." This is the Imperium.

 

Good spot on the repetition. But to my mind the whole first paragraph is the same sentence stated two different ways. And to my mind, it seems many of the enemies in the 41st millennium wouldn't fear the Space Marines. I don't know... It's probably just a section that needs to be scrapped and then re-written.

 

You really need to work Korhal in here somewhere. I'm just saying. ;)

 

Wait...perhaps...Losanco is...

 

It isn't, is it? </joke>

 

Hah. Well, I might work Arcturus into there somewhere, just for you.

 

Points for quoting pretty much exactly, loss of points for quoting such a weak line. I'd cut the "fully" bit, myself. It just feels off.

 

Also, exact quotes aren't exactly what you want in your IA, no?

 

See, you've brought this up before. Whilst it may be a direct quote, I didn't directly quote it. It's just happenstance. But you're right - it is similar to a section from official background, and so it's likely going to be altered.

 

In the line before this, you forgot to capitalize Castigators.

 

Also, you're mixing up your plural/singular here. Pick one.

 

Good point, I'd forgotten that I'd written about Magi and not a single Magos.

 

I am uncomfortable with this characterization of the Dark Founding, as I have mentioned many times. Why you guys couldn't use the 22nd Founding for this, I'm still not clear.

 

That's fine - I'm uncomfortable with the idea of the Fallen hijacking a loyalist Chapter. We all have our bugbears. :D The thing is that I don't mention what went on in the Dark Founding whatsoever. I don't mention that the Chapters created were flawed. My presonal thinking is that different Magi would be responsible for each Chapter within a founding. After all, a founding would be a huge event. The Magi involved in the Castigators were exceptionally stringent - and that stringency rubbed off on the Chapter. Was that stringency a result of the thirteenth founding? Potentially. Nobody will ever truly know.

 

Handful seems low, somehow.

 

Certainly true. I'll edit that.

 

A ) A little heavy on 'survive' in there.

B ) It might be possible to be confused about whether the tech or the people is subjected to the cold.

C ) Surviving on makes it sound kind of like they're eating the circuitry. :P

 

It reads a little awkwardly at the moment. Personally, I'd try: The descendants of those few survivors clung to the barely habitable dark-side, surviving with the last remnants of their failing technology and subjected to the intense cold.

 

Those are all valid points and I'll likely alter them.

 

If it's so cold, wouldn't most of the planet be?

 

The arguments put forward by the other amateurs in this thread was that hot air on one side would be pushed onto the cold side as a result of air pressure - that gusts of warmer air near the day/night divide would make it barely liveable. I don't know... I just write this stuff. ;)

 

Again. You really need to read the Chrysalids. :P

 

I'll put it on my Amazon wish-list. ;)

 

---

 

The point regarding the Chapter's name is entirely valid. With a one-word Chapter name it's difficult, though. I always try to alternate between "the Chapter" and "the Castigators". There aren't many other synonyms I can use without sounding ridiculous. I appreciate that it might be wearying, but I'm hoping to sit down and re-work many of the sections anyway.

 

Still, thank you for the input.

[Octavulg]

The point regarding the Chapter's name is entirely valid. With a one-word Chapter name it's difficult, though. I always try to alternate between "the Chapter" and "the Castigators". There aren't many other synonyms I can use without sounding ridiculous.

 

I hear 'they' is a lovely pronoun. ;)

 

I appreciate that it might be wearying, but I'm hoping to sit down and re-work many of the sections anyway.

 

True. In that light, I'll wander on through and look at the concerns you raised yourself. Really, the damn thing is supposed to make you happy, so if it doesn't, that's the biggest flaw.

 

As I've said, I'm not necessarily keen on how this is structured. I really want a punchy introduction to the article, but not something which is just a "ZOMG THE CASTIGATORS ARE AWESOME!" - I want to refine it so that it doesn't seem bland. At the moment, the two sentences in that paragraph seem to be saying the same thing in two different ways. It's probably a legacy of having to go through so many drafts. I took out that sentence with the three campaigns that served as examples of the combat prowess of the Castigators. It seemed as though they were just names shoved in to give the Chapter some gravitas. It felt cheap, and so I took it out. Yet I'm not sure where to go with it.

 

Merge the first sentence with the second paragraph, eliminating the second sentence entirely. That drags you right into the whole bit about their genetic purity et al. I ran into something very similar with the Ice Lords - even though it's a convention to have that sort of chest-beating at the start of the IA, you can usually tell when the writer's heart isn't in it. Best to just launch into the bit you do care about - the enthusiasm will make up for the lack of adherence to convention.

 

The thirteenth/fourteenth dichotomy is something I want to preserve, but at the moment it seems awakwardly written. I'm keen to portray the fact that extreme methods were used during the founding of the Castigators - extreme methods that laid the foundation for their own obsession with genetic purity.

 

Then just explain that. I'm not sure why you're so worried about the Thirteenth/Fourteenth dichotomy in any case: to a certain extent, I would expect a lack of knowledge/knowledge dichotomy, with the obsession with purity extending to excellent records and the like as well. As is, it just feels incomplete.

 

Next, Baraquiel. I don't want to become myopic with him - too many articles focus around the Chapter Master as a pivotal figure.

 

Hey, sometimes the Chapter Master is. :P The BT spend a lot of time talking about Sigismund, for example.

 

I in no way spend large chunks of an IA talking about my Chapter Master. No. </shifty>

 

Whilst instrumental in their founding - he exacerbated their sense of righteousness and helped gestate that bellicose personality that would become the archetypal Castigator - whilst he found and chose Losanco - I don't want to focus around him. He needs to be there, but I need to work on how to describe him. I'm not sure if it's done well enough.

 

Honestly, I don't think it is. I think you either need more detail or less - either give us something more of a picture of Baraquiel, or make him a bit more faceless and unimportant. Something about his service history, or a bit more of his personality.

 

I also cut out the paragraph detailing the AdMech giving them a battle-barge - it's not needed, I think. All Chapters would be given equipment and materiel - so I've ditched it. The key thing, in my opinion, is ending the 'origins' section with them entering the Ultima Segmentum. It lets me tie in with the Homeworld section properly.

 

Traditionally, home world is just about the home world, not about any actual events. I would thus wonder if the whole discovery thing doesn't really belong in Origins, instead.

 

This section I'm somewhat wary of - it's meant to be one of the most important in the article. Losanco reflects and encapsulates so many of the themes within the Castigators. I want to do a proper job on it. So I'm stuck between my obligation to describe Losanco whilst highlighting those themes and the fact that I don't want to overload the reader.

 

Load the bastards up. It's important. One option would be to transfer most of the current stuff (especially the stuff most relevant to the Castigators' discovery of the planet) to Origins, and then use Home World to flesh it out further.

 

Keep in mind - you're 700-1700 words short of the IA standard. You have space. Remain calm.

 

I need to describe Baraquiel's reaction to the planet whilst also describing their fortress-monastery. As a result, I'm not convinced I'm doing either justice, yet.

 

Reaction in Origins, Fortress Monastery in Home World. Trust me. ;)

 

I also know that Octavulg had some concerns that the humans couldn't survive, and that I need to restate their circumstances to make it that bit more viable. Hopefully I can make them seem interesting.

 

I'll reiterate my thing about "border between light and dark". Scientifically plausible and thematically appropriate for humanity. Double win!

 

My concern in this section is having something to say - the Castigators adhere to the Codex Astartes, but I'm keen to emphasise how they're different, whilst making this section long enough not to be a complete waste. Thoughts are welcome here.

 

Really, the sections are designed to be a complete waste. They're usually barely three paragraphs between them - and that's OK. You're trying to fill space here - talk about the stuff that's important and most common - the big picture. Leave the details (like Castella and the individual uses of each squad) out, and focus on the big bits - like the first paragraph, the first few lines of the others, and the last. The rest is trying to fill space, and it shows.

 

Not everything has to be filled out, man. :) In fact, filling stuff out too much can risk losing the themes among the dross. Chekhov's Law is the bestest law there is.

 

The way that the "Librarians" and "Techmarines" sections are included here is terrible. I'm inclined to remove the Techmarine section entirely and save that for the site. The Librarians are important, though. Again, here I want to make the Castigators distinct and interesting.

 

Techmarines might fit OK in beliefs, actually - talk about the divided loyalties there. The Librarians bit is the only important bit. I'd say reduce the other bits to a sentence about codex-adherent structure and start talking about the Librarians.

 

My biggest concern here is paragraph structure - I don't think it follows a logical progression. Instead it seems a little jumbled, and I'd appreciate other peoples' thoughts on this issue.

 

Indeed. I'd throw the bit about the Navigators back in with the Librarians - it'd fit a bit better. I'd also leave out the ceremonies - perhaps a sidebar is in order for them?

 

As to structure...merge the bit about Chaos with the bit about Monodomination. Work from their views on the most debased (Chaos), up to the loyalists, then do the bit about aliens. Then continue as you have it. The two paragraphs repeat each other a lot.

 

Something like this for the middle paragraph:

The Castigators are known to adhere to philosophies that could be compared to Inquisitor Goldo's principles of Monodomination. They are utterly ruthless and unforgiving when it comes to those they perceive as aiding the enemies of the Imperium. Mutants, aliens, psykers and religious deviants are all to be called to account for their activities. Those that have allowed themselves to submit to temptation and fall to Chaos are especially hated. The only punishment for those who stray from the Emperor's path is death. The Castigators are utterly devoted to this belief and have in the past even been openly hostile towards loyalist Space Marines they have perceived to have a mutated or debased gene-seed. They utterly refuse to work alongside aliens such as Eldar or Kroot.

 

I think that might work better. It eliminates a bit of the emphasis on hatred of Chaos, but I think it improves the flow enough to compensate. YMMV.

 

This is a decent enough section - unsure what people think could be added or altered here. Suggestions are certainly welcome, though.

 

Seems perfectly fine. Geneseed sections are never particularly prolonged, frankly.

 

* * *

 

Hope that's of help.

[Commissar Molotov]

I'm very glad that no data got lost in the crash! ;)

[Octavulg]

You don't keep a seperate text copy on your computer?

 

'Cause you should.

[Commissar Molotov]

Well, I do, but I hadn't captured the most recent ideas. Plus, this thread is valuable to me, as it contains a bunch of useful ideas and gems. If nothing else, it helps chart a large part of the Chapter's development. I wouldn't want it to disappear! :huh:

 

In other news, I've recently been corresponding with a user by the name of 'The Exorcists', who has been talking to me about Captain Caphius. Here are some of the pieces I've found most useful:

 

I have also started work on a short story which includes Caphius facing off against the Dark Eldar and trying to emulate his favorite Hero! I'm trying to demonstrate not only his intense zeal, but as a deep love for his men. I believe he "sees his Company as a furious weapon in the arsenal of the Imperium, and has hand-picked the most faithful and furious Marines from the reserve Companies to supplement his forces". This conjures up images of a old blowhard, striding up and down the lines with artillery and small arms fire whips around him, wreathed in a crown of fire and shouting encouragement to his warriors. I can see him taking personnel losses very personally. Not only is he bothered from a strategic stand point, but a personal one, as he hand-picked his own men.

 

Interesting indeed. I'd been planning to include Caphius in a short story alongside Anteas and the Fifth. The eventual point would be that Anteas saved the day, yet Caphius got the glory. msn-wink.gif He wants to be Chapter Master, but the truth is that he never will be - Escalus is far younger than him and is First Captain...

 

But your description is very accurate, I think. People have too much of a tendency to make their characters awesome paragons of virtue and nobility. It seems unthought of to have characters that are arrogant/covetous/greedy - but still capable, you know?

 

Caphius might even be the easiest Captain to model - I've been planning to make a Caphius using the Captain from the Black Reach boxed-set, with the bolter removed and using the Power Fist from the Master of the Arsenal.

 

Your thoughts are interesting - be sure to contribute in the thread with your ideas on Caphius! He's one of the dominant captains in the Chapter, and he's not received much in the way of air-time recently.

 

I agree with your assesment of how people treat their own characters. They want to really remodel themselves into their perfect being. What a lot of people seem to forget is that a single bit of humanity makes of those noble qualities even more noble!

 

I can see the ceromonial aspect of the phsycial crown [of thorns], but i also see him wearing it against especially hated foes. Not only will the pain focus his mind and faith to better purge the unclean, but put yourself in the shoes of the enemy.

 

You are facing off against the Elite of Humanity, but you care not. You are well trained, armed, and armoured. Your morale is high and victory is near. Now enter Captain Caphius. He strides at the head of his troops, face twisted in a bellow of righteous fury, blasting indiscriminatley into your ranks with his blessed Plasma Pistol. As he comes closer you notice a cloak of (color unknown ,was thinking white), whirl about him as he lays into your comrades with his power fist. He turns on you after finishing his latest victim. You feel utter horror as you look upon his face. Blood runs freely from his head, and the last image you have is of his eyes, filled with bottomless zeal and fury, appearing to weep blood.

 

Something that i have always been interested in was Caphius's belief that he is Lycidius's "Spiritual" successor. I think that further defining Lycidius' views could go a long way in fleshing out Caphius and the 2nd as a whole. As far as specific enemies, I can see a multitude of favored foes, but the Dark Eldar and Word Bearers come to mind. The former as it mirrors the Hero-Captain, and the latter because of the dichotomy the two would represent in opposition to each other.

 

Yes, I always liked the idea that Caphius has spent much of his life as a Space Marine attempting to live up to the example of Lycidius. Yet he's a flawed reflection, really.

 

You're right that Lycidius needs to be fleshed out also. It's in my extensive "to-do" list. My vague chronology has him becoming First-Captain (something Caphius hasn't achieved) and then dying during the Truth War. Now the Truth War is also something that's not been fleshed out, but it's meant to be a real dark point in the Chapter's history, where they stand on the brink of being excommunicated due to... something. I'm not sure, but my original plans were that it was to do with an Inquisitor who had managed to subvert a squad of Castigators and was using them to cause mayhem. That said, it uses the tired "Inquisitor ex Machina", and I wasn't sure.

 

Anyway, I had also started writing some fiction where Lycidius is searching for something... and he threatens an astropath to get the answers he needs. Again, I've not crystallised my ideas there, and input is always welcomed. The point was that Lycidius was also a flawed character - violent, irrational, zealous and bombastic. He was someone who deeply worried the moderates within the Chapter - and even as he died and the Chapter mourned, there were some who whispered that perhaps it was a good thing he'd been taken before he could become the Chapter Master and lead the Castigators down a dark road that could shatter all their carefully constructed alliances with organisations like the Inquisition, the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Navigators.

 

 

I rather like the idea of the Castigators on the verge of excommunication from the very Imperiumt they strive so hard to protect. But why can't they have wrought such mayhem on their own? They are narrow-minded, superior, and zealous warriors. I can easily see them exacting measures that most of "mainstream" Imperial thought would deem too far. Maybe they felt that the local Ecclesiarchy representatives were found wanted and brutrually castigated for their sins? Or the populace was considered so far from grace that the Castigators sought to cleanse their souls with pain and death?

 

On the Lycidius side, i see him very much as a Heinrich Zimmler ( I do hope i have the correct name, correct me if im wrong), the head of the SS. He was viewed by some in the party as almost too far in some respects. Some of the more "moderates" in the party found his beliefs hard to swallow. I mean he dedicated himself fully to the more spiritual and pagan aspects. Perhaps Lycidius is searching for an ancient artifact that would grant only the true of heart and those filled with piety unquestioned power. Assured in his own qualities, he would claim the artifact in the name of the Emperor, becoming chapter master and better able to execute wars against the enemies of Humanity. This way he could sort of twist his own personal desires and not even realize he is doing it?

 

The Truth War is definitely something that'll have to be discussed further. If we can gather some ideas and options, we can attempt to solicit further opinions. As to Lycidius searching for a relic... perhaps. I want to avoid people going "ZOMG HE'S FALLING TO CHAOS!". I do like the idea that his 'pure' desires could be somewhat 'corrupted'. I don't know - it rather depends what sort of artefact or relic he could be looking for.

 

 

I think it would have to be portrayed as more of a quest for Lycidius. He is couold almost be more of an Inqusitor Lord Torquemada Coteaz type character. Who feels the best way he can serve the Emperor is by commanding the entire chapter and posses this relic. Maybe the relic ended up being the Hero's Mantle itself, and he felt great dissapointment that it wasn't as fabled as he orginally thought. But Caphius doesn't need to know that

 

In other news, I got a free copy of Black Reach a few days ago and I've been fiddling around with the Captain model - hopefully my Caphius model will take shape soon! :yes:

[Tyrannicide]

An interesting conversation you two had. Some good ideas coming from both sides of it. Hopefully we'll see Caphius in model-form soon!

[Nash Trickster]

I was playing with the SM Terminator painter today (while I was on the phone with a client) and ended up making something which looked too much like a Castigator... This made me think about the suggestion I made to add thorny vines on the Dreadnought and your answer that it'd look too "Biel Tan"...

 

I couldn't resist trying to add thorny vines to the termie to see what it'd look like (Termies are after all the closest thing we've got to a Dread as far as painters are concerned :P ) and here's the result of five minutes of "Photoshopping"...

 

http://pageperso.aol.fr/nashtrickster/sons/castigator.jpg

(I've made it quite small because, the image being quickly thrown together, the thorns' definition is really bad at bigger resolutions, but it gives IMO a quite good idea of what a Castigator model with thorny motifs could look like...)

 

And... I don't think it looks too "Biel Tan" :eek

[Commissar Molotov]

I was playing with the SM Terminator painter today (while I was on the phone with a client) and ended up making something which looked too much like a Castigator... This made me think about the suggestion I made to add thorny vines on the Dreadnought and your answer that it'd look too "Biel Tan"...

 

I couldn't resist trying to add thorny vines to the termie to see what it'd look like (Termies are after all the closest thing we've got to a Dread as far as painters are concerned ) and here's the result of five minutes of "Photoshopping"...

 

http://pageperso.aol.fr/nashtrickster/sons/castigator.jpg

(I've made it quite small because, the image being quickly thrown together, the thorns' definition is really bad at bigger resolutions, but it gives IMO a quite good idea of what a Castigator model with thorny motifs could look like...)

 

And... I don't think it looks too "Biel Tan" :pinch:

 

It's funny you should bring up the idea of "painting vines" on armour once again. I was discussing with The Exorcists the issue of Captain Caphius and his Crown of Thorns. I mentioned that the Captain might not wear it all the time - it wouldn't be appropriate in all combat environments, after all. I mentioned that he might paint the honour upon his armour. The thorned wreath would be analogous to the laurel wreath in the Ultramarines (and other Codex Chapters) - so all standard bearers would have it.

 

So I'm definitely intrigued that by the wreaths - whilst not a common visual element, they could definitely work. I think the key in differentiating them from Biel-Tan (in my mind at least) would be controlling the shape of the vines - rather than random swirls, having them be in a band or a wreath.

 

The comments about the thorns have actually fueled a lot of work. I've been recently consulting with a great designer by the name of Rens Jansen, who has put together the first concepts for the Castigator's new website:

 

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/Castigators/TheCastigatorsIndexPrev-1.png

 

You can see a slightly bigger picture here - you'll have to forgive Photobucket crushing the image during the upload process...

 

Still, there's definitely more to come. :P