favorite primarch

[Walter Payton]

1. Rogal Dorn. He could never tell a lie. I can also imagine him as Churchill, standing atop the ruined casements of the Palace and giving a V-salute.

2. Angron. Whats that coming over the hill? Is it a monster, is it a monster........

3=Magnus, Leman Russ. Two opposites, but both cool. One in a 'I shall calculate the average speed of this bolter shell and then fire it at you' kind of way And one in a 'I'll headbutt you in the face and steal yer wench' kind of way.' I kinda think of the Somali pirates song from South Park when I think of Russ.

4.=Corax, Ferrus Manus and Vulkan.

5. Sanguinius. Ho-Hum

6.Horus and the rest.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I have felt they haven't filled out Jaghatai, Corax and Vulkan enough, fluff-wise.

When you compare them to the treatment Russ, the Lion, Rogal Dorn, Sanguinius and Guilliman have received, they are behind. I haven't read Fulgrim yet but I would guess it buffs Ferrus Manus out more.

 

I would like GW to pump those guys up some more.

 

My favourite Loyalist is Rogal Dorn.

 

BL HH series puts him in the top 4 in victories, with Horus, the Lion and Russ.

TICK.

 

IA IF; "RD had sought no favour and exemplified the qualities of truth, courage and humility more than any other Primarch".

TICK.

 

Guilliman had a statue made of him - before or after he flamed him, I don't know.... :lol:

Jaghatai gave him a dozen of his finest stallions as a gesture of eternal brotherhood.

TICK.

 

Horus proclaims Perturabo as the greatest master of siege warfare in the Crusade. Perturabo was a master of fortifications whose writings had been retained by Guilliman in his Codex. Dorn had always been his match though...

*Therefore Dorn is co-greatest master of siege warfare.

TICK.

 

The Emperor chose Dorn as his Praetorian and had him beef up the Terran Defences.

TICK.

 

RD engages with Perturabo without planning and employing the methods he usually would, in a situation that Perturabo had devised to favour himself, and still fought the IWs to a stand still.

Yes, Guilliman had to bail Dorn out, but considering that he had 2 minuses and got a draw speaks two things A] he acted like a complete twit :D and B] he out-fought his now-rival :devil:

CROSS & TICK

 

Terra never falls and Dorn is vindicated.

TICK.

 

Rogal Dorn's legacy;

The Crimson Fists and Black Templars are (as far as I can tell) the most popular Second Founding Chapters.

BL even pins the Soul Drinkers to the Imperial Fists in an effort to make them cool. B)

The Black Templars get a Codex to themselves.

UM don't, WS don't, S don't, RG don't, IH don't and admittedly IF don't....

TICK.

 

I also like the Lion and Russ.

I feel Guilliman gets ripped on too much generally and then gets halo-treatment in response to that. I suppose if I had to deal with Ultra-hate I'd be pretty worn out about it too. :(

EDIT: I would love for GW to make the Guilliman issue clear in IF and UM HH books. :D

 

Fave Traitor Primarch. Magnus. At the time possibly went too far with the Warp - hindsight probably says yes (but I will wait for HH duo before I yay or nay that)

Tried to save Horus during Davin.

Tried to warn the Emperor of Horus's treachery.

Feels the wrath of the Wolf due to the connivings of Horus.

Had Russ not been deceived & only brought Magnus back = SW + some TS to fight Horus with. :)

 

I also like Perturabo and Angron.

[Capt. Lysander]

I'm a bit busy as of right now to make a list, but I'll state my favourite primarch:

 

Rogal Dorn: He was one of the Emperor's favourite sons, commander of the Emperor's personal praetorian legion, modest, and his last moments were filled with sacrifice for the Imperium- he even blamed himself for the Heresy.

[UltimateJake]

Seeing as you others were doing it, well stating your favorite traitor Primarch, I will state mine.

 

Alpharius.

 

He was brilliant and he put everything he had before the Imperium. Always doing the unthinkable to save them with nearly always success. He even became a traitor because he knew chaos winning would really destroy itself and thus save the galaxy. (albeit sorta destroying it in the process) And he played the greatest trick anyone ever has. The fool Gulliman thought he had killed him. It was likely one of the other Legionaries or maybe even Omegon. But, Gulliman most likely never did kill him. Thus Alpharius rules and is the ultimate strategist.

 

He's plotting to take the Imperium and Chaos down right now. We just don't know where, that's how good he is. :lol:

[HollowpointHead]

To throw in a Heritical Promarch. id say either Mortorian, because he is simply bad ass.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Seeing as you others were doing it, well stating your favorite traitor Primarch, I will state mine.

 

Alpharius.

 

He was brilliant and he put everything he had before the Imperium. Always doing the unthinkable to save them with nearly always success. He even became a traitor because he knew chaos winning would really destroy itself and thus save the galaxy. (albeit sorta destroying it in the process) And he played the greatest trick anyone ever has. The fool Gulliman thought he had killed him. It was likely one of the other Legionaries or maybe even Omegon. But, Gulliman most likely never did kill him. Thus Alpharius rules and is the ultimate strategist.

 

He's plotting to take the Imperium and Chaos down right now. We just don't know where, that's how good he is. :lol:

Equal chances it was Alpharius or Omegon since they are literally the same person, and almost certainly one of them since Guilliman (unlike all the other random people in the galaxy) has actually met them and knows what his brothers look/act/sound like.....even if he only knows about one of them. No random Marine claiming to be Alpharius is going to fool a brother Primarch or The Emperor.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Seeing as you others were doing it, well stating your favorite traitor Primarch, I will state mine.

 

Alpharius.

 

He was brilliant and he put everything he had before the Imperium. Always doing the unthinkable to save them with nearly always success. He even became a traitor because he knew chaos winning would really destroy itself and thus save the galaxy. (albeit sorta destroying it in the process) And he played the greatest trick anyone ever has. The fool Gulliman thought he had killed him. It was likely one of the other Legionaries or maybe even Omegon. But, Gulliman most likely never did kill him. Thus Alpharius rules and is the ultimate strategist.

 

He's plotting to take the Imperium and Chaos down right now. We just don't know where, that's how good he is. :lol:

Equal chances it was Alpharius or Omegon since they are literally the same person, and almost certainly one of them since Guilliman (unlike all the other random people in the galaxy) has actually met them and knows what his brothers look/act/sound like.....even if he only knows about one of them. No random Marine claiming to be Alpharius is going to fool a brother Primarch or The Emperor.

Oh, it's alright Emperors champion, it's ok that your nobly awesome Guilleman got fooled, it's alright... :lol: I'm just messing around man.

 

Seriously though, the entire legion was designed to look like Alpharius. And fight like Alpharius. And be just like Alpharius. Those best at it became parts of the higher echelons, and Guillman fought the very highest, who disguised himself as Alpharius (armour and all) and fought him. We don't even know if Guilleman even met Alpharius (unless he met him when he was discovered by the Emperor). Hr could of had a legionare stand in for him the entire time, barring when he met the Emperor.

[UltimateJake]

Seeing as you others were doing it, well stating your favorite traitor Primarch, I will state mine.

 

Alpharius.

 

He was brilliant and he put everything he had before the Imperium. Always doing the unthinkable to save them with nearly always success. He even became a traitor because he knew chaos winning would really destroy itself and thus save the galaxy. (albeit sorta destroying it in the process) And he played the greatest trick anyone ever has. The fool Gulliman thought he had killed him. It was likely one of the other Legionaries or maybe even Omegon. But, Gulliman most likely never did kill him. Thus Alpharius rules and is the ultimate strategist.

 

He's plotting to take the Imperium and Chaos down right now. We just don't know where, that's how good he is. :lol:

Equal chances it was Alpharius or Omegon since they are literally the same person, and almost certainly one of them since Guilliman (unlike all the other random people in the galaxy) has actually met them and knows what his brothers look/act/sound like.....even if he only knows about one of them. No random Marine claiming to be Alpharius is going to fool a brother Primarch or The Emperor.

 

I doubt Gulliman would've saw it. Gulliman was good at organizing planets and leading men, he was a good Primarch. But, Alpharius was a thinker. He had very complex and odd plans that looked like nonsense to others. But, he made them work and it is very possible that he had a look alike stand in for him each time he was around his Brother Primarchs. It is possible he suspected one of them going renegade all along and didn't want to show any chance of weakness to any of them. He was a thinker. And a brilliant one too.

[Justicar Valius]

I vote the Khan because he fought from the top of a razorback during the siege of Terra :D

[Legionator]

Rogal Dorn: He was the loyalty incarnate.

[Argon]

My favorite primarch? Lorgar.

 

 

Rogal Dorn: He was the loyalty incarnate.

 

You may think Dorn was beyond loyal to his master, but Lorgar could have been a hundred thousand times more loyal than that masochist fool. Faith can make a man stand by the most blatantly hopeless cause ever and think it'll come out on top. Faith can make a man charge across no-mans-land towards certain death armed with a sharpened stick and clad in a few pieces of pig iron. Lorgar had faith that no man could equal or ever will equal. The Corpse Emperor should have seen this, and thought of how he could use it. Various rulers have embraced various religions as a means of unifying cultures over the years, such as the Vikings and Christianity or the Arab Empire and Islam. The Emperor knew this in all probability, given he was born in the 8th Century BC, IIRC. Faith in the False Emperor could have unified man from one end of the galaxy to the other. What does the Emperor do? He yells at his son for having faith. He tells him faith and religion are horrible, tells him "I'm not the Messiah! Now bugger off!" ;) . Really now, can you blame Lorgar for finding other gods?

[Marshal Wilhelm]

My favorite primarch? Lorgar.

 

 

Rogal Dorn: He was the loyalty incarnate.

 

You may think Dorn was beyond loyal to his master, but Lorgar could have been a hundred thousand times more loyal than that masochist fool. Faith can make a man stand by the most blatantly hopeless cause ever and think it'll come out on top. Faith can make a man charge across no-mans-land towards certain death armed with a sharpened stick and clad in a few pieces of pig iron. Lorgar had faith that no man could equal or ever will equal. The Corpse Emperor should have seen this, and thought of how he could use it. Various rulers have embraced various religions as a means of unifying cultures over the years, such as the Vikings and Christianity or the Arab Empire and Islam. The Emperor knew this in all probability, given he was born in the 8th Century BC, IIRC. Faith in the False Emperor could have unified man from one end of the galaxy to the other. What does the Emperor do? He yells at his son for having faith. He tells him faith and religion are horrible, tells him "I'm not the Messiah! Now bugger off!" ;) . Really now, can you blame Lorgar for finding other gods?

 

Oooh! Flamage! I challenge you, sir, to a du-el! :blink:

 

I can and will blame Lorgar for finding other gods. ;)

 

Dorn was beyond loyal to the Emperor.

Masochist - well, that is just subjective, you have no proof Dorn loved the pain glove. :ermm:

 

Faith can be a wonderful thing, true.

Lorgar could have been great, I agree.

 

But you see, all those things you pointed out ~ his ultra-faith-loyalty and obedience in the face outrageous odds, are undone by the fact that when his master didn't suit what Lorgar wanted, instead of remaining faithful and loyal to his Atheist master, he found masters that suited him better.

 

So Lorgar wasn't faithful or loyal. He is, only when you conform to his vision. Conditional loyalty. Which isn't loyalty at all.

 

Well, I don't like how the Emperor rolled either. If he had worked with his sons weaknesses, he would have got a better result from them, IMO. Draw out the best from them. For the warrior - his martial pride, for the thinker - his mind, and for the faithful - his belief.

 

So that is my opinion. :)

[Capt. Lysander]

Directly what the person above me says :)

 

Becareful of spoilers: :)

 

Always doing the unthinkable to save them with nearly always success. He even became a traitor because he knew chaos winning would really destroy itself and thus save the galaxy.

[jb85]

I doubt Gulliman would've saw it. Gulliman was good at organizing planets and leading men, he was a good Primarch. But, Alpharius was a thinker. He had very complex and odd plans that looked like nonsense to others. But, he made them work and it is very possible that he had a look alike stand in for him each time he was around his Brother Primarchs. It is possible he suspected one of them going renegade all along and didn't want to show any chance of weakness to any of them. He was a thinker. And a brilliant one too.

 

While Guilliman wouldn't have known that there were twins, he would have had a fair idea whether he had killed a Primarch or not. As soon as he engaged 'Alpharius' in combat, it would have been blindingly obvious to him if he was fighting a Primarch or an ordinary Space Marine.

 

I actually think the whole thing lessens the Alpha Legions original achievement at Eskrador. Originally it was a tribute to how they were able to keep operating and ultimately defeat the Ultramarines, even after the death of their Primarch and being left leaderless. Now it is 'OMG there were two of them and they tricked Guilliman'. Which of course means the Alpha Legion weren't lacking a Primarch when they defeated the Ultramarines after all.

[Magnus Thane]

Darth Vader!!! Wait... he's not a primarch right?

 

The Primarch Twin thing seems VERY odd to me. Doesn't even make entirely sense unless it's one of the 'missing' Primarchs. I'm about to start Legion and I like Alpha Legion... I do hope it won't turn out a sillyfest.

 

Personally I like Horus most I think. 2nd place would probably go to Vulkan, Night Haunter and Magnus.

[Legionator]

My favorite primarch? Lorgar.

 

 

Rogal Dorn: He was the loyalty incarnate.

 

You may think Dorn was beyond loyal to his master, but Lorgar could have been a hundred thousand times more loyal than that masochist fool. Faith can make a man stand by the most blatantly hopeless cause ever and think it'll come out on top. Faith can make a man charge across no-mans-land towards certain death armed with a sharpened stick and clad in a few pieces of pig iron. Lorgar had faith that no man could equal or ever will equal. The Corpse Emperor should have seen this, and thought of how he could use it. Various rulers have embraced various religions as a means of unifying cultures over the years, such as the Vikings and Christianity or the Arab Empire and Islam. The Emperor knew this in all probability, given he was born in the 8th Century BC, IIRC. Faith in the False Emperor could have unified man from one end of the galaxy to the other. What does the Emperor do? He yells at his son for having faith. He tells him faith and religion are horrible, tells him "I'm not the Messiah! Now bugger off!" ;) . Really now, can you blame Lorgar for finding other gods?

 

Don't make me laugh. Lorgar was too weak to be loyal. He wanted something to worship because of his weakness. The Emperor thinked humanity don't need any god, gods were for weak ones. Rogal Dorn was certain loyal because he devoted himself to the Emperor but he expect nothing.

 

So Lorgar wasn't faithful or loyal. He is, only when you conform to his vision. Conditional loyalty. Which isn't loyalty at all.

 

Well, I don't like how the Emperor rolled either. If he had worked with his sons weaknesses, he would have got a better result from them, IMO. Draw out the best from them. For the warrior - his martial pride, for the thinker - his mind, and for the faithful - his belief.

 

I completely agree with you.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

So Lorgar wasn't faithful or loyal. He is, only when you conform to his vision. Conditional loyalty. Which isn't loyalty at all.

Well, I don't like how the Emperor rolled either. If he had worked with his sons weaknesses, he would have got a better result from them, IMO. Draw out the best from them. For the warrior - his martial pride, for the thinker - his mind, and for the faithful - his belief.

I completely agree with you.

 

Let's be friends! :sick:

 

Welcome to B&C, Legionator, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

I trust you'll enjoy your time here.

 

İmparator için!

[UltimateJake]

I doubt Gulliman would've saw it. Gulliman was good at organizing planets and leading men, he was a good Primarch. But, Alpharius was a thinker. He had very complex and odd plans that looked like nonsense to others. But, he made them work and it is very possible that he had a look alike stand in for him each time he was around his Brother Primarchs. It is possible he suspected one of them going renegade all along and didn't want to show any chance of weakness to any of them. He was a thinker. And a brilliant one too.

 

While Guilliman wouldn't have known that there were twins, he would have had a fair idea whether he had killed a Primarch or not. As soon as he engaged 'Alpharius' in combat, it would have been blindingly obvious to him if he was fighting a Primarch or an ordinary Space Marine.

 

I actually think the whole thing lessens the Alpha Legions original achievement at Eskrador. Originally it was a tribute to how they were able to keep operating and ultimately defeat the Ultramarines, even after the death of their Primarch and being left leaderless. Now it is 'OMG there were two of them and they tricked Guilliman'. Which of course means the Alpha Legion weren't lacking a Primarch when they defeated the Ultramarines after all.

 

Roboute Gulliman was a tactician. That much is true and he was smart. And I doubt it would have been obvious as Omegon was his equal and in all since basically a Primarch. And I must stress that marines were taught to fight like him, they looked like him, and possibly even thought like him. So this 'Alpharius' upon Eskador could have possibly been a very trusted Captain of Alpharius who was very strong and a good warrior. A regular marine. Or it could have been Omegon.

 

Roboute could have also underestimated Alpharius greatly. He likely saw him as a coward or just not very good at combat. So it is quite possible Roboute's arrogance got in the way when he was fighting this so called Alpharius.

[Legionator]

Let's be friends! :)

 

Welcome to B&C, Legionator, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

I trust you'll enjoy your time here.

 

İmparator için!

 

Loyalty unites us! By the way, the Emperor is Turk ^_^

 

Roboute could have also underestimated Alpharius greatly. He likely saw him as a coward or just not very good at combat. So it is quite possible Roboute's arrogance got in the way when he was fighting this so called Alpharius.

 

I remember there was an incident between Roboutte and Alpharius. Alpha Legion conquered a world that resisted UM for months, by using strange tactics. But Roboutte accused Alpharius for fighting cowardly.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Roboute could have also underestimated Alpharius greatly. He likely saw him as a coward or just not very good at combat. So it is quite possible Roboute's arrogance got in the way when he was fighting this so called Alpharius.

 

I remember there was an incident between Roboutte and Alpharius. Alpha Legion conquered a world that resisted UM for months, by using strange tactics. But Roboutte accused Alpharius for fighting cowardly.

 

Yes, but who says it was Alpharius that he met? Was that the first time the two had suppossedly met?

[jb85]

Roboute Gulliman was a tactician. That much is true and he was smart. And I doubt it would have been obvious as Omegon was his equal and in all since basically a Primarch. And I must stress that marines were taught to fight like him, they looked like him, and possibly even thought like him. So this 'Alpharius' upon Eskador could have possibly been a very trusted Captain of Alpharius who was very strong and a good warrior. A regular marine. Or it could have been Omegon.

 

Roboute could have also underestimated Alpharius greatly. He likely saw him as a coward or just not very good at combat. So it is quite possible Roboute's arrogance got in the way when he was fighting this so called Alpharius.

 

I don't really buy that. Regardless of how capable a combatant a regular Space Marine is, or how good an impression he can do of Alpharius, there will be a huge gulf between their capabilities and those of a Primarch. If Guilliman fought an ordinary Marine, standing in for Alpharius, he would have likely swatted him aside in a matter of seconds. A Primarch would have at least provided some form of challenge, even if he was inferior in hand to hand combat.

 

It wouldn't have been obvious if he fough Omegon, but then it doesn't really matter in that case. He would have killed one of the Legion's two Primarchs, with the only real difference being the name.

 

Yes, but who says it was Alpharius that he met? Was that the first time the two had suppossedly met?

 

The Alpha Legion IA has them meeting previously, with Guilliman rather unfairly criticising Alpharius combat tactics and outlook on warfare and then telling him his Legion could never compare with the battles won by the Ultramarines. They then meet again in the aftermath of Tesstra Prime campaign, where Guilliman (fairly on this occasison for my money) berates Alpahrius for his over elaborate and wasteful campaign. I'm not sure the HH book Legion has any more on the relationship between the two.

[UltimateJake]

Roboute Gulliman was a tactician. That much is true and he was smart. And I doubt it would have been obvious as Omegon was his equal and in all since basically a Primarch. And I must stress that marines were taught to fight like him, they looked like him, and possibly even thought like him. So this 'Alpharius' upon Eskador could have possibly been a very trusted Captain of Alpharius who was very strong and a good warrior. A regular marine. Or it could have been Omegon.

 

Roboute could have also underestimated Alpharius greatly. He likely saw him as a coward or just not very good at combat. So it is quite possible Roboute's arrogance got in the way when he was fighting this so called Alpharius.

 

I don't really buy that. Regardless of how capable a combatant a regular Space Marine is, or how good an impression he can do of Alpharius, there will be a huge gulf between their capabilities and those of a Primarch. If Guilliman fought an ordinary Marine, standing in for Alpharius, he would have likely swatted him aside in a matter of seconds. A Primarch would have at least provided some form of challenge, even if he was inferior in hand to hand combat.

 

It wouldn't have been obvious if he fough Omegon, but then it doesn't really matter in that case. He would have killed one of the Legion's two Primarchs, with the only real difference being the name.

 

Yes, but who says it was Alpharius that he met? Was that the first time the two had suppossedly met?

 

The Alpha Legion IA has them meeting previously, with Guilliman rather unfairly criticising Alpharius combat tactics and outlook on warfare and then telling him his Legion could never compare with the battles won by the Ultramarines. They then meet again in the aftermath of Tesstra Prime campaign, where Guilliman (fairly on this occasison for my money) berates Alpahrius for his over elaborate and wasteful campaign. I'm not sure the HH book Legion has any more on the relationship between the two.

 

Yes, but that does not mean that he meant Alpharius Prime. It could have been Omegon or one of his trusted servants. The thing with Alpharius and the Alpha Legion is that they are so secretive that we may very well never know. But, their is basis for a strong argument that Gulliman was duped.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Not really. A Primarch will be able to tell if he's talking to another Primarch or just a Marine, unless of course A/O were just completely pathetic to the point that they were the equivalent of Marines. That'd certainly explain how they can blend so well and why Guilliman one hit killed him, but it makes them a sad joke.

[UltimateJake]

Not really. A Primarch will be able to tell if he's talking to another Primarch or just a Marine, unless of course A/O were just completely pathetic to the point that they were the equivalent of Marines. That'd certainly explain how they can blend so well and why Guilliman one hit killed him, but it makes them a sad joke.

 

Well it is quite obvious the Gulliman was blinded by arrogance. He already said that the Alpha Legion were cowards and would never stand up to his victories. So he thought the same of Alpharius, seeing him as a weakling and worthless fool most likely after the Heresy. So he figured he would be inferior in combat and he didn't realize that he was only killing a marine. Albeit a highly trained Omegon or Captain perhaps.

[The Emperor's Champion]

They recovered the body and took the time to burn it. I'm pretty sure they had plenty of time to confirm it wasn't just a Marine, since you know, it'd take an Apothecary like 30 seconds to prove beyond a doubt.

Even if it was, the idea that A/O are so pathetic that you CAN'T immediatly tell them apart from a Marine when they're fighting for their lives is pretty sad.