DA Dice Commitment Time

[Interrogator Stobz]

Hi Paul,

 

I don't mean to be rude so please take this as an opinion statement. I feel the spare dice are technically ours, the fraters that ordered them through you.

 

I think the truly fair thing to do is to post them to us as originally planned and ask us for the extra postage if we want to split the order instead of waiting the extra 8 weeks to have them shipped together.

 

I certainly don't want you to be even slightly out of pocket and I really appreciate your work but that is how I feel it should run.

 

Any inverted dice ordered are a nice optional extra that those of us that would like them can pay for separately.

 

Lance

[LostProphet217]

I feel I must agree with Stobz, it comes down to the fact that I am 'done' waiting. Yes 2 months is not really THAT long of a time, but I just really want my dice :P

[Vanek]

I agree with Stobz and LostProphet. With the amount of time it's taken to get the dice ordered and made, I'm ready for my dice. I get tired of people trying to steal my dice, and the black logo will look just as good (to me) as the red one.

[Tanhausen]

Vanek, I guess the "dice stealing" means people taaking them from your table...yeah, that happens to me too! Wont be happening anymore when we het the new ones :)

[FarFromSam]

I see the merit in both, selling the blackwing, or shipping the blackwing along with the long waited green and raven wing dice... I will be honest, I'm biased and leaning towards raising money for the inverted (I plan on getting all three anyway). But that is my next point, I feel that the people who want the inverted dice, also would want the blackwing, and red deathwing as well (me) and it seems like I would be paying twice towards the inverted dice. The angels have been blessed/cursed with the extra dice/extrawait and What ever the final decision is, I say do it uniformly to avoid confusion, extra work, and unnecessary frustration.

 

I prefer ship the dice you have now, then if the people who were in the original order want the red deathwing dice, let them claim them (along with the extra S&H fee) and let those who want the Also you won't be out shipping and handling. What ever you decide I'll follow, you are the one doing all of the real work after all. Thank you Paul.

 

 

Reguards farfromsam

[Millicant]

In favor of not causing waves - I agree with my brethren. I'd like them shipped now and deal with the new ones later (additional shipping cost is FINE by me - I don't want you to be spending anything out of pocket Paul).

 

Just to clarify to you fine gentlemen - I'm not trying to "steal" anybody's dice! I'm merely interested in trading my red-emblem ones for some black-emblem ones :yes: How about I post about/address that after this is all resolved in order to ease this process.

[Lord_Edgimus]

I agree with farfromsam, you've put the work in here paul, and contrary to what previous comments have said these die are not ours, they are a mistake, yeah they're now pauls, but we all paid for a set item, which is what we should wait and get. if people want to trade their bone/red for bone/black and have them shipped out that shouldn't be a problem, it just gives paul that many he can sell to other members of the board that didn't get a chance to join in on the original order and put that money towards the inverted die. Why be greedy? we're still getting what we paid for and are not out of pocket. Last thing we want is to see paul out of pocket as well seeing as he was kind enough to get us the items in the first place, i will welcome any suggestions that get me my die quicker even if i have to pay a little more postage at a later date.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Hey man, no pressure from me here.

From my PoV I feel that although Paul has done the work and absolutely should get some free dice out of it, I see the order as a group one with his name on it and therefore would do as I stated above if I was in his position: Share the dice out.

If he sees it as we each contracted him to provide a product then he should absolutely keep all the dice and supply us with our original order only.

 

Just a differing opinion of the agreement and I will gladly accept either outcome.

 

Thanks again Paul ^_^

 

Lance

[shabbadoo]

I agree which much of the above sentiment (i.e. the inconvenience is being shared by everyone, and so should the dice), but here is an idea that I think covers everything:

 

Phase 1: Ship the standing orders with the all black DW dice included, so people can get to playing with their dice.

 

Phase 2: Get in an Inverted Dice order ASAP so that they can be worked on and finished at about the same time as the re-done DW dice will be. This means CHESSEX will only need to pay shipping for one batch of dice to Paul too, which cuts down on the cost of what they are having to eat (which is a nice thing to do, as they are making good on our order).

 

Phase 3: Ship the redone DW dice AND the Inverted Dice out together to those who ordered both, as those people ordering the Inverted Dice will have to pay shipping again anyways. The people getting only the re-done DW dice will need to pay Paul for the shipping cost for the redone DW dice, but they can probably make that cost up easily enough by selling off their all black DW dice ON THEIR OWN TIME if they don't want them.

 

*EDIT: if anybody were to not want to pay shipping twice, they of course have the option to wait for the DW dice to be redone and then have everything shipped to them all at once instead.

 

This accomplishes three things:

 

1. Paul pays no money out of his own pocket.

 

2. It keeps things simple for Paul. Any extra work of selling the all black DW dice will have to be done by US. Some of us might want to keep the all back DW dice and others will want to sell them, but that will be up to everyone to decide individually. No need to saddle Paul with the hassle of doing it.

 

3. The redone DW dice should be done at about the same time as the Inverted Dice, and so we'll get in our greedy little hands on them at the same time. ^_^

 

Thoughts?

[ValourousHeart]

I done care as much about the time frame... As I do the extra dice.

It also appears that you are breaking your fiduciary trust.

 

Had all of us ordered individually we would each have in the end both red and black death wing dice.

 

I for one don't want the inverted dice you plan to order.

And there are 1400+ dice ordered for the red DW and maybe 250 for the inverted DW yet to be ordered.

So it is unethical for you to serve the needs of those future buyers over those of us who have already paid.

 

As for shipping that part is simple.

The original agreement was that you would ship the dice in one go to each of us when you received them.

You have not received them all yet, so anyone who wants to chaRnge that part owes you the extra s/h.

 

As for any additional shipping costs for those willing to wait due to the additional weight, s/h was worked out on a case by case basis, and as such if there is additional cost let each of use know and we'll send the additional funds.

 

I will wait for the red DW, please ship mine all at once.

[Vanek]

Vanek, I guess the "dice stealing" means people taaking them from your table...yeah, that happens to me too! Wont be happening anymore when we het the new ones :D

 

Yes, when I said "steal", I meant the people I play with on a weekly basis.

[CovertToaster]

I have a thought!

 

I was offline when this buy was going on so if anyone doesn't want their black and white dice then I'll buy them at the same price, plus postage, and the proceeds can go to the inverted ones! Plus I'd buy some red/white ones if there is going to be another buy I can paypal the money whenever you like.

 

Keep it in mind if there are any leftovers I'm good for around 20 of each if possible!

[Komodo]

Well, After reading all of the comments I agree with shabbadoo's plan. Everyone is happy in the end.

[shabbadoo]

I done care as much about the time frame... As I do the extra dice.

It also appears that you are breaking your fiduciary trust.

 

Had all of us ordered individually we would each have in the end both red and black death wing dice.

 

I for one don't want the inverted dice you plan to order.

And there are 1400+ dice ordered for the red DW and maybe 250 for the inverted DW yet to be ordered.

So it is unethical for you to serve the needs of those future buyers over those of us who have already paid.

He's breaking nothing, and he is not serving the needs of future buyers over those who have already paid. He's offering an option to have some things shipped now, and other things shipped later to help some people save money on shipping. If that plan does not apply to you (i.e. you do not plan to order any Inverted Dice), you won't be forced to do it.

 

Let me be a bit more clear on options. We do NOT need to come to any sort of consensus as to how this will be handled. As I see it, people have three options to choose from:

 

1. Paul sits on a person's order until the DW dice are redone, and ships that person's order out all at once, there being no additional shipping expense at all (only the inconvenience of the order being delayed, which is out of Paul's hands).

2. Paul ships a person what he has now, and ships the re-done DW dice later at that person's expense (i.e. you gotta have them NOW, and you want Paul to send your order to you piecemeal, then you have to pay for that *additional service*).

3. Paul ships a person what he has now, and later on ships the re-done DW dice and Inverted Dice that were ordered together at that person's expense, which is no big deal as people will have to pay shipping separately for the Inverted Dice anyways.

 

Everyone pick an option and let Paul know that you want to do. I'll just PM Paul with my own instructions (option #3).

 

There are a lot of orders, for a lot of dice. This is an unexpected complication, so we need to all make things as easy as possible on the person handling it.

[Lord Tharand]

I tend to agree with Stobz and Shabbadoo. I think it would be nice to have the blackwing dice as well as the redwing and I certainly would be happy to pay for the extra shipping and handling.

[FarFromSam]

Agreed with Shabbadoo, his seems streamlined up. Again, your call Paul No pressure :)

[Tanhausen]

I've already let Paul know what I think by PM.

 

But re-reading some of the posts...

 

Paul: if you want some help with the organization (print-outs to simply stick on the boxes, for example), just let me know and I'll do what I can.

[Lord_Edgimus]

for my part i'll wait for paul to say what the options are, gotta remember the man does have a life outside these cyberwalls, my preference would be to have my die shipped out with the black mistake ones in place of the red ones, and i'd pay seperately for the red ones.

[ValourousHeart]

@ Shabbadoo,

 

I am not sure why you are arguing with me, since we are saying the same thing, just in different ways.

 

Paul's plan was to send each of us only what we ordered

 

then take the mistake dice (afforded to him by the lot of us that made the initial group buy possible)

 

sell/trade them to individuals on this forum that were not part of the initial group buy

 

or sell on eBay as a means to generate capital so as to grant a "discount" to those individuals buying in on the inverted group buy.

 

and not make a profit (we seem to define profit differently)

 

Is that not what he said?

 

Now we had 1400+ DW dice in the initial order and we are looking at about 250 DW dice for the inverted order.

So just based on that we can conclude that there are quite a few people that were in the initial order that will not be in on the inverted order.

 

I am one such person.

 

So if we are seeking a win win for everyone...

Those not in on the initial buy win because we now have these mistake dice for sale.

Those in on the inverted dice (of which Paul is one) get the inverted dice for a discount based on the sale of those dice.

(this seems to be a form of profit from my POV)

 

But what about all of us that were part of the initial order that are not ordering inverted dice?

What is our win?

[Interrogator Stobz]

That's why I think it would be fairer on everyone and easier on Paul if he just split the mistake dice up with the corrected dice and sent every one one parcel.

Leaving the order for inverted dice (of which I'd like in on BTW) to be a separate order (if it is indeed made at all) and any savings can be made by each individual if they want to sell the incorrect dice.

 

Again though, it's totally up to you how you want to run it Paul ^_^

 

stobz

[Pbenner]

Brothers,

 

I know that the majority of you can hold yourselves outside this conversation, but at this point I've decided that the “free dice” are a curse to me. In the last couple of days I have had multiple messages from people dictating to me exactly how I am going to handle my self at this juncture. Because of this, I am going to outline to you exactly how the hog is going eat the cabbage below. If you have a problem with this, please just let me know and I will refund 100% of your money back to you as a gift, and we can part ways. I am sure that someone else would like access to “excess” dice from the original order.

 

Everyone in this thread is talking “cost to Paul” during their discussions. I would like to again bring attention again to the fact that I don't need money. I haven't for a while, and it doesn't look like work is going to let up any time soon, so my 70-80 hours weeks will hold steady, but costs are measurable in other ways too.

 

Presently, the most precious resource I have is time. I literally have enough time to eat, do my Laundry, and work. I haven't been able to do much other than this in the last three months since taking this job. While it's better than where I was when this process started, my “free time” is limited. I have exactly one day per week that I can sometimes make it down to the Post Office. Since it's a Saturday, I can always expect that there will be a line unless I want to be there before they open, but this is also the one day that I can afford to catch more than 4-5 hours of sleep, so I choose to do that. The line when I get there is usually 30 minutes to get to the counter, plus the time going through each box and getting it entered into the system. This doesn't count the time I've already volunteered per box, which I will hold myself to, but understand that for everyone that wants their dice shipped in two waves, I get another round of counting, addressing, and custom forms if applicable.

 

Doing these above and beyond things expends a resource that I did not want to spend. I am willing to go through and for those people tired of waiting that will settle for the bad dice, I will give you my original commitment. I will box up your dice, address them, provide customs forms, and get them to the post office in as timely a manner as I am presently capable of.

 

When Chessex was unable to meet my first time line of being in Indiana to pick up the dice and save that cost, I ate it. I spent the extra $50 on shipping to get them down here quicker. This is money out of my pocket that is above and beyond the original agreement. I have bent over backwards to make this happen because I really like you guys. After some of the messages I received from the less than grateful, I like a few of you less. Don't take this the wrong way, but I didn't force you to write those messages.

 

The primary reason my heart sank when I saw that dice were bad is that I wouldn't be washing this off my plate. I wouldn't be getting the majority of this done so I could stop spending Mental Cycles working through it. At this point I have at least another 2 months in this, and more if I decide to go with the Inversions that I've been asked about.

 

So presently, this is what is going to happen:

 

1) Those of you that have indicated that you would rather have the Black Emblem Broken Sword Dice, I will happily ship these in place of your red faced dice.

2) Those of you that have indicated that you don't want to wait and would settle for the Black Emblem Broken Sword Dice, I will do the same and ship your order to you, no questions asked.

3) Those of you waiting for the red dice will continue to receive updates as I get them from Chessex, and when your dice arrive, I will be getting the remaining bulk out the door in as timely of a manner as I am capable.

4) If you would like to wash your hands of this mess, send me an email with the paypal account that you send the money from as well as the shipping address and you will receive a 100% refund. I will find someone else that would like to own these custom dice, I am sure of it.

 

I have a few people that didn't ask for any Red Emblem Broken Sword Dice. For these people, I will be getting the regular Green and Black dice out to you shortly. It won't be this weekend, probably not next either due to scheduling conflicts (I am driving to Indiana to pick up my son for visitation), but I will do what I can.

 

In the original order, I ordered at least 100 extras of each cut out of my pocket to meet the needs of people who missed the order, and a few people on this forum that were readily involved in the process and helped me that were unable to purchase their own dice for one reason or another. I still expect to be getting these out to people, in the order that they asked about them. First come first served is the best I can do here.

 

Any remaining black faced dice I will deal with at a later date. For now, the options outlined above are what I am going to follow. If I do decide to sell them, this is on me and I will find a method of putting this money back into the community if this post doesn't cause me to be ostracized or banned. It's still looking like my best option will be to just throw them into my gaming cabinet and forget they exist, especially after the drama.

 

This post will be the last post that I make in this thread in regards to the “free dice” as I am just as liable to throw them in my gaming cabinet and forget about them as I am to move forward instead of trying to do something for the community.

 

Of the three choices above, you need to make one. I do not hold myself accountable to any choices out side of these four for anyone involved in the original purchase. Those of you looking for “extra” dice I will still hold my commitment to make the extra dice available. Anyone that doesn't make a choice of the above four will be held to number 3, and will receive what they originally ordered in as timely of a process as able.

 

If you have complaints or want to bitch at me, I suggest option 4. Again, my apologizes that it came to this, but this is what I am willing and able to do.

 

Best,

 

Paul

[shabbadoo]

But what about all of us that were part of the initial order that are not ordering inverted dice?

What is our win?

There is none, just as is the case with everyone else who ordered DW dice, whether they plan to order Inverted Dice or not. Everyone who ordered DW dice has to wait. That is why nobody wins, except those who didn't order DW dice at all. The only potential win to be salvaged, which there should be, is everyone getting the extra black DW dice. The people who made the order happen at all in the first place, and who are being inconvenienced, should be getting those dice, as CHESSEX didn't screw up Paul's order; they screwed up everyone's orders. That is the only possible "win" for people who ordered the DW dice, and it should be dealt with that way.

 

As to any keeping any late comers in mind, there is always the option for another dice order. I am thinking that just after the release of the 6E Starter Set would be a rather good time to do another dice order. ;)

[Interrogator Stobz]

VH: Everybody who ordered and paid for AWESOME DA style dice wins.

 

Paul: Option 3 for me thanks. If you do ever want to sell some of the extra dice please let me know and I'll send you some moolah.

 

No stress Brother, I've done my share of 20hr days and know where you're at. At least there's 25 hours in a day if you don't have lunch :P

 

Brothers: If we weren't told about the cock up we would still be happy except for a wait for a luxury item, so all is good. And waiting for Paul to have time to process this order is quite reasonable for cool cheap dice.

We should keep in mind this is a shared event with all the work done by one person. I hope it doesn't sour too much because of a little over excitement for free stuff.

 

Peas,

stobz

[skink]

Peas indeed.

 

I echo Stobz's sentiments. As I said Paul, option 3 for me, I'm happy to get what I paid for, and another 8 weeks is hardly the end of the world...

 

Cheers now

[FarFromSam]

Option Number 3! Thanks Paul! Lemme know if the black deathwing go up for sale, and if you do end up keeping them I can picture you carrying a few around in a pouch fighting crime, which is equally epic!