++Marines Malevolent/Knights Vermilion++UPDATE: Ironclad

[Monstra Sumus]

And so, as of late, being a person with severe sleep disorders, this gives me time to work like a dog. Here's the first finished Siege Mantle squad.

And the current state the second Vindicator is in so far. Should have it finished by the end of the weekend.

Cheers,

BT

[Pearson73]

Looking good, great weathering on the mantlets!

[deathspectersgt7]

LOOKING GOOD!!!!

[Monstra Sumus]

Looking good, great weathering on the mantlets!

LOOKING GOOD!!!!

Thanks guys, I think they look pretty smart together. I finished up the Vindicator today and got an army shot so far. Just one more Tactical Squad and the 800 point Tourney force is ready for play.

Now comes the question, do I keep my current Captain, the one I always use or do I build a new Siege Master in honour of the new army direction?

Thank you for looking,

BT

[deathspectersgt7]

You can always use a Different Captain. Variety is Cool.

[The_Chaplain]

Build a new siege master--vow him for the ETL. Plus I'd love to see what you'd come up with with a new one.

[Monstra Sumus]

It'll be a long time before I vow anything, I'm not good under pressure :P

 

I might make a Siege Master, it'll cost a pretty penny to do a custom one as my bits box has run low so it will take some time. The Captain can stay a Captain.

[Monstra Sumus]

So, question time.

 

800 points. Do I stick with my current list which is basic Siege Master, 20 Siege Mantle Marines with 2 flamers and a power fist/storm bolter combo on each sarge with a Vindicator and a heavy bolter Storm Talon or do I shake it up.

 

2nd list is basic Siege master with 10 siege mantle marines with flamer and power fist/ storm bolter combo, a 10 man siege assault squad with dual flamer and lightning claw in a rhino and two vindicators.

 

Or list 3, which is Siege Master with Primarchs Wrath in a squad of 10 siege mantle marines with a flamer and power fist/storm bolter combo, 10 Siege Marines with dual flamer and lighting claw in a land raider with multi melta.

 

The idea being this runs on conjunction with tank heavy Guard and I'll be objective taking. The reason why I am considering a Land Raider is because it is Dedicated Transport for the Siege Assault Marines which means it's scoring.

 

What do you guys think?

[The_Chaplain]

Both troop choices are really solid, I won't lie. Mantlets are tough as nails, but slow-- good for camping on an objective once they get there. Siege assault marines are great for capping an objective quickly (especially if they have a dedicated transport like a raider), as well as being decent in the meat grinder that is melee. They can also be kitted out with melta bombs for extra anti tank and/or combat shields for the invuln. Which ever route you take, the reasoning is sound. The real question is what role do you want the siege master to take? Melee powerhouse? Stick him in with siege marines and hope you get a roll on the warlord table that gives him a result like rampage for him and his unit. Ranged? Give him a primarchs wrath and stick him with mantlets or devastators. Split fire warlord result with a primarchs wrath? Nasty for the enemy. Something you might not have thought to try-- plasma cannon or missile launcher in a mantlet squad. Why? Siege master has a signum-- BS 5 transferred to a plasma cannon or

Missile launcher is now hitting on 2s, and if you get master of bombardment? That blast gets to reroll scatter dice; that's some scary stuff. Also, tossing this out there: if you go with a siege assault squad with a DT landraider: I'd highly recommend a Prometheus. I realize it lacks an assault cannon: but 12 rerollable heavy bolter shots that have -1 to enemy cover saves? That's brutal. +1 to reserve rolls on top of that? You're getting reserves in on 2s, that's phenomenal. Just my 2 cents.

[The_Chaplain]

Sorry for double post, I have a lot to say on the topic of siege vanguard. As far as list is concerned: what constitutes a tank heavy IG list for you? Leman russes? Artillery? Doubling down on mantlets and sitting on 2 objectives almost guaranteed all game with them is really solid-- especially if they are geared for ranged combat; but then you suffer from a lack of mobility. If you use faster tanks, it isn't an issue really. I never advise taking a solo vindicator. They are enormous fire magnets; you always want to take 2 to ensure they get a shot off between them. Not to mention one of the perks of siege vanguard is up to 3 vindicators in a single heavy support slot; and 4 heavy support slots overall. 2 mantlets, 2 vindicators and a siege master might even have some points over for fiddling-- and is a very solid core you can expand upon.

[Monstra Sumus]

Thank you for taking the time to advise, Chaplain! I appreciate it. The Siege Master will be a ranged combatant for the purpose of these lists (but will be modeled with the Primarchs Wrath and Teeth of Terra/Shield Eternal for the purpose of using them when needed) and with the Mantlets to benefit from their reroll. I use Imperial Fist tactics so I'm a bolter heavy player, that's also why I was forgoing a heavy weapon in the mantle squads, they can only move 6" to begin with and I'd like to have them keep moving to objectives. The allied Guard is composed of;

 

Tank commander battle tank + squadded battle tank

 

Vets + las cannon team + Taurox

 

Vets + las cannon team + Taurox

 

Vanquisher russ + las cannon

 

Wyvern battery

 

Which is all the anti tank we really need at 1600 shared. I love my vindicators so taking only one is never really a strong option with me so I'm definitely leaning towards two.

 

What I had in mind was Siege Master, 10 Mantles, 10 Siege Assault, 2 Vindicators. This leaves me with 90 points. I can upgrade my two squads with a powerfist/storm bolter and flamer in one and a lightning claw and dual flamer in the other which they are already modeled with so that leaves me with 30 points. Do I kit out my vindicators with siege shields or do I pump up the Siege Master with the Primarchs Wrath and melta bombs? My role is to take objectives, namely to secure the Siege Objective (which my team member is perfectly happy with) and chasing down any mission objectives.

 

Thoughts?

[The_Chaplain]

 I'm a bolter heavy player, that's also why I was forgoing a heavy weapon in the mantle squads, they can only move 6" to begin with and I'd like to have them keep moving to objectives.

Ah, that is actually pretty sound reasoning for the lack of heavy weapon.   Can I ask why the stormbolter on sergeants though? Is there any real benefit to it over a standard bolter other than the static 2 shots?  

 

Do I kit out my vindicators with siege shields or do I pump up the Siege Master with the Primarchs Wrath and melta bombs?

Siege shields, no question.  The last thing you want is to have an immobilized vindicator.  If you want to put melta bombs on something-- pay for them on the assault squad. That's 10 potential melta results, and one very dead vehicle every charge.    If you're tempted by the Primarch's Wrath/teeth of terra/storm shield combo you can always make a backpack mounted gun like a lot of modellers do when converting a Corien Sumatris for their Astral claws.  The primarch's wrath is a good gun, I won't lie.  An auspex somewhere in that shooty unit for a -1 cover save in lieu of shooting is pretty sound too.

 

Again, I'm opinionated, so take whatever I say with some salt. 

[Monstra Sumus]

 

 I'm a bolter heavy player, that's also why I was forgoing a heavy weapon in the mantle squads, they can only move 6" to begin with and I'd like to have them keep moving to objectives.

Ah, that is actually pretty sound reasoning for the lack of heavy weapon.   Can I ask why the stormbolter on sergeants though? Is there any real benefit to it over a standard bolter other than the static 2 shots?  

 

Do I kit out my vindicators with siege shields or do I pump up the Siege Master with the Primarchs Wrath and melta bombs?

Siege shields, no question.  The last thing you want is to have an immobilized vindicator.  If you want to put melta bombs on something-- pay for them on the assault squad. That's 10 potential melta results, and one very dead vehicle every charge.    If you're tempted by the Primarch's Wrath/teeth of terra/storm shield combo you can always make a backpack mounted gun like a lot of modellers do when converting a Corien Sumatris for their Astral claws.  The primarch's wrath is a good gun, I won't lie.  An auspex somewhere in that shooty unit for a -1 cover save in lieu of shooting is pretty sound too.

 

Again, I'm opinionated, so take whatever I say with some salt. 

 

 

You say that but you've got more experience than me with a SAV so I know when to open my ears ;) 

 

The Storm Bolters are for the static 2 shots, I find the extra bolter shell helps with how much my army relies on weight of fire. However, thinking on it, if I drop the storm bolter and just use it as a regular bolter that's another 5 points. So at 35 extra points I can do both siege shields and have 15 left over. I can either give the SM a Storm Shield so he's 2+ re rollable and 3++ to make him extra survivable, but with a chainsword and bolter, is this worth it? Or I can give the SM and both sergeants meltabombs. 

 

The only real sink I'm questioning at the minute is the power fist on the Mantle sergeant. The lightning claw on the assault sarge will stay as I want striking at I with the wound re rolls, but with the way the Mantle squad is working out I could just drop the powerfist sergeant altogether, take a stock one, add an extra flamer into the ten man squad and free up another 20 points to pump into the SM for the PW bolter. That'd be 21 bolter shots and two flame templates from ten men. 

 

So that would make the list; 

 

Siege Master with Primarch's Wrath and Storm Shield. 

Seige Tacticals with Mantlets and dual flamers. 

Siege Assault with Lightning Claw and dual flamers. 

Dual Vindicators with Siege Shields. 

 

Could have the mantlets moving between the vindicators so there's a 24" killzone to cover any charges the Siege Assault Marines would do on an objective. 

[Grizzly_bear]

Fantastic brother, when's the scythe coming

[Monstra Sumus]

Fantastic brother, when's the scythe coming

 

Thanks fella, means a lot. I'm focusing on getting this 800 list done, then I'll be painting up the Terminators. 5 Thunder Hammer Malevolents and 5 Lightning Claw Scythes. 

[The_Chaplain]

The only real sink I'm questioning at the minute is the power fist on the Mantle sergeant

Yep, especially considering you'll have the siege master attached to the unit for melee and challenges as well.  Its almost 30 points you can allocate elsewhere.

 

 add an extra flamer into the ten man squad and free up another 20 points to pump into the SM for the PW bolter. That'd be 21 bolter shots and two flame templates from ten men.

mantlet squads are still limited to only 1 special weapon as per tactical squad rules unless that's been changed in a FAQ I don't know about.  

 

Siege Master with Primarch's Wrath and Storm Shield.

Does he have artificer armor too?  Remember, attaching him to a mantlet squad confers the benefit of rerolling armor saves against shooting attacks just like if he had a mantlet of his own.  

[Monstra Sumus]

 

The only real sink I'm questioning at the minute is the power fist on the Mantle sergeant

Yep, especially considering you'll have the siege master attached to the unit for melee and challenges as well.  Its almost 30 points you can allocate elsewhere.

 

 add an extra flamer into the ten man squad and free up another 20 points to pump into the SM for the PW bolter. That'd be 21 bolter shots and two flame templates from ten men.

mantlet squads are still limited to only 1 special weapon as per tactical squad rules unless that's been changed in a FAQ I don't know about.  

 

Siege Master with Primarch's Wrath and Storm Shield.

Does he have artificer armor too?  Remember, attaching him to a mantlet squad confers the benefit of rerolling armor saves against shooting attacks just like if he had a mantlet of his own.  

 

 

Ignore me on the 2 flamers in the Tactical squad, for some reason I thought I could take 2 instead of a a special and heavy but my brain is not working and I have the "derp". Just dug my codex out so I'm not sending myself doolally by being wrong. 

 

I'll drop the power fist, it's ultimately going to be a hindrance to the squad and yes, that's a point, he comes with Artificer standard so he's already a 2+ rerollable with the squad and a 4++ from his Halo. 

 

So all in, list as currently is 760 points with 40 spare. I can make the SM either a close combat beast with Teeth of Terra and Digital Weapons or I can make him ranged with the Relic Bolter and drop an Auspex in both squads for assisted firing against cover. Alternatively I can leave him as is with just the chainsword/bolter combo and slap melta bombs on my Assault Marines and still take an auspex for both units. 

 

EDIT: I folded like cheap cards and the bits for my Siege Master will be here by Tuesday. What's the details on the ETL? I might join up for once. 

[The_Chaplain]

EDIT: I folded like cheap cards and the bits for my Siege Master will be here by Tuesday. What's the details on the ETL? I might join up for once.

Start up is probably going to be May 15th for this year's ETL.

 

So all in, list as currently is 760 points with 40 spare. I can make the SM either a close combat beast with Teeth of Terra and Digital Weapons or I can make him ranged with the Relic Bolter and drop an Auspex in both squads for assisted firing against cover. Alternatively I can leave him as is with just the chainsword/bolter combo and slap melta bombs on my Assault Marines and still take an auspex for both units.

Auspex in your mantlet squad/on your siege master for sure.  If you kit the siege master out for melee in case the squad is charged, having an auspex/signum means he doesn't have to shoot but the squad will get the increased effectiveness in shooting from reducing enemy cover saves, and with increased effectiveness from one guy getting the master's BS5 boost.  Seems effective to me.

 

Have you considered a grav gun in the mantlet squad rather than a flamer?  You can shoot and scoot with a grav gun for 2 ap 2 shots, or stand still and get the full 3 at maximum range. The 9''/18'' range would synergize better than the measly 8'' template flamer IMO.  

[Monstra Sumus]

 

  Start up is probably going to be May 15th for this year's ETL.

 

 

 

 

Swish, I'll probably have the SM done by then but I have a crap ton of other stuff to do. Probably stick the Typhon up as my pledge. 

 

Auspex in your mantlet squad/on your siege master for sure.  If you kit the siege master out for melee in case the squad is charged, having an auspex/signum means he doesn't have to shoot but the squad will get the increased effectiveness in shooting from reducing enemy cover saves, and with increased effectiveness from one guy getting the master's BS5 boost.  Seems effective to me.

 

Have you considered a grav gun in the mantlet squad rather than a flamer?  You can shoot and scoot with a grav gun for 2 ap 2 shots, or stand still and get the full 3 at maximum range. The 9''/18'' range would synergize better than the measly 8'' template flamer IMO.  

 

 

 

I hadn't considered a grav gun, no. From the looks of previous tournaments they seem to be Nid/Eldar/Guard heavy so I figured the flamer would be nice for objective clearing. I'm just not too sure how well a single grav gun will deal with higher armour saves. 

 

Siege Master with Teeth of Terra and Auspex. 

Seige Tacticals with Mantlets and flamer. 

Siege Assault with Lightning Claw and dual flamers. 

Dual Vindicators with Siege Shields. 

 

800 dead on. If I was gonna take a Special for 15 in the tact squad I'd bump the ToT down to a Relic Blade. 

[The_Chaplain]

 

 

Siege Master with Teeth of Terra and Auspex. 

Seige Tacticals with Mantlets and flamer. 

Siege Assault with Lightning Claw and dual flamers. 

Dual Vindicators with Siege Shields. 

 

800 dead on. If I was gonna take a Special for 15 in the tact squad I'd bump the ToT down to a Relic Blade.

 

Nice and solid, I like it.  

[Monstra Sumus]

Thank you for the help dude, it's turned my ragtag army list into something approaching a viable list. 

 

Just have to build the SM when he gets here and do some touch ups to the Siege Assault Squad as they are re-purposed from the first every squad I painted. Looks like I might be starting those Terminators sooner than I thought! 

[Monstra Sumus]

Got a work training thing today but when I get back this is set up and ready to go. Got to do some touch ups, bring the assault squad in line with my newer style of painting and paint up the Primarchs Wrath and shield for my Siege Master. The big dude in the back fell apart so I had to rebuild him and he'll be a Master of the Forge for the ETL.

[Monstra Sumus]

The paint dripped from the point of Kruger's helm, a simulacrum of blood running in a river down his brow. The hastily painted sergeants stripe mixed with the rain slashing down against him as he advanced at the head of his new command. Sergeant Decimus had been cut down by laser fire, scythed in half and left to die in no man's land, much to Apothecary Sulla's ire. Kruger had been field promoted and sent to retake the position Decimus had been approaching. He steeled his nerves and flicked the tips of his power claw, a fizzling phase shield lapping over the wickedly sharp talons. Kruger would take the enemy bunker, he would crack it open and destroy the traitorous dogs within. He would relish this new command.

Sergeant Kruger reporting for duty!

Cheers,

BT

[sockwithaticket]

I will be using those Anvil shields when I eventually get around to doing my 4th Company (using FW Siege Vanguard list). Never seen them on a marine before, but they look great.

Good looking fledgling force there, I like this new direction you're taking.

 

[Monstra Sumus]

They are great, mine were good quality resin as well. They aren't brittle like some of the third party bits I've snagged before. The SAV looks like it'll be really fun to use and it allows me to pump some life back into the stale units I've not used in over a year.

 

Just have the rest of the Siege Assault Marines to do and then put together and paint my Siege Master and the army is ready to rock. My ETL pledge will be things to add to the playable list. There's a couple of big games coming up in a few months time and I want to bring the hammer and anvil.