What 2014 will bring

[Midnightmare]

Don't forget that some of us who run successor Chapters may use more Assault Squads due to our amplified blood thirsty nature ;) Ihink we need to keep the ability to take RAS as troops, gives people more of a choice.

 

Some good Red Thirst ideas bouncing round here (looking at you Blindhampster)

 

The main things I want from the Codex is Art Armour for my Captain, Dante strike at I6 and cheaper jump packs for DC; well hopefully costing as a whole will be addressed across the codex. Astorath to be cheaper would be nice but that depends on the Red Thirst rules I guess.

 

Apart from costing and a few minor tweaks, is our Codex really that bad? Be careful what you wish for! That said....

 

Personal, and unlikely, wish - give Meph smash and keep wings power!!

[Sanguine_Blood]

I want to see WAY cheaper Jump Pack costs.

I want to See Dante not die in 1 hit... He's 1100+ years young... To die to a PF in the first turn of combat? heh.

Bring unit costs in line with C:SM

Give us *some* new C:SM toys (grav guns, skyfire tanks, Flakk, Assault Centurions, etc).

 

I like the idea of the kicked up dust and confusion of a DS with Decent of Angels gives ANY kind of cover save, I'd even settle with a 5+ here. SOMETHING to protect us from the hordes of fire they are going to soak.

 

I'd like to see RAS get better weapon choices.

Tactical to get heavy/special weapon access at 5 members (not 10 as it is now).

 

Please fix Sanguinar, Mephiston

Bring back 3rd ed. with the Sanguinary High Priest HQ slot.

Make Priests a bit cheaper, or make the aura they give a bit better to justify the price.

 

And the list goes on....

[Plague Angel]

I like the idea of the kicked up dust and confusion of a DS with Decent of Angels gives ANY kind of cover save, I'd even settle with a 5+ here. SOMETHING to protect us from the hordes of fire they are going to soak.

Again, besides our already well-increased accuracy, I don't see any argument for this that wouldn't apply to deep-striking jump infantry game-wide.

 

EDIT: We're hurting right now, I know, but it's not due to any particularly special weakness in our book, it's just due to how 6th favors shooting over CC armies in general. As long as we get price adjustments in line with C:SM, I'll be happy. I just don't want us to turn into Chaos players, never satisfied and always convinced that every move GW makes is a direct attack against them.

[Sanguine_Blood]

 

I like the idea of the kicked up dust and confusion of a DS with Decent of Angels gives ANY kind of cover save, I'd even settle with a 5+ here. SOMETHING to protect us from the hordes of fire they are going to soak.

Again, besides our already well-increased accuracy, I don't see any argument for this that wouldn't apply to deep-striking jump infantry game-wide.

 

EDIT: We're hurting right now, I know, but it's not due to any particularly special weakness in our book, it's just due to how 6th favors shooting over CC armies in general. As long as we get price adjustments in line with C:SM, I'll be happy. I just don't want us to turn into Chaos players, never satisfied and always convinced that every move GW makes is a direct attack against them.

I understand your statement, but that's the whole reason actually. It's because 6th favors shooting now, and Angels are assault, so we need something to protect us, even a little bit, from all of that shooting if we choose to take our beloved Jump packs. I really don't want to see us get MORE shooting, otherwise why even play blood angels when C:SM we would basically be.

 

Also, with the way Codex's are coming together and being more interchangeable, would a rule affecting our jump packs just affect us? Maybe it would bridge to other jump units too? Hmmm.... Creative juices flowing.

[Sanguine_Blood]

Or, to justify it better than kicked up dust, maybe give the sergeants some kind of smoke launcher that rigged to their jump pack (if one is chosen) even if its extra points to take, that confers cover to their squad in lieu of shooting or something....

[Plague Angel]

We don't have to Deep Strike just because we can.

 

We can take RAS squads as troops, outfit them with better special weaponry, and scatter 1d6" instead of 2d6.

 

Those are already huge, huge differences and advantages over C:SM RAS. Just because Deep Striking isn't always the right thing to do doesn't mean we need to pile on even more special rules.

[Memento Of Prospero]

I agree that point costs are what prevents RAS from being great. If we can have gunslinger sergeanta at a better pricing, we could be a serious threat.

 

Deep striking as a rule never really worked because of the game dynamics. Anything that deepstrikes usually is a shocktroop and totally expandable. Mass deepstriking is an all in strategy and demands immediate results. That's why it works even less on assault units.

[ElectricPaladin]

To be entirely honest, I have the same answer re: deep striking and re: assault.

 

Expect change.

 

The fact is that deep striking, close combat, and assault marines all don't really work the way they need to work for the Blood Angels to function. Rather than pile on the special rules, I predict that GW will chose to focus on the Blood Angels' other strengths. Specifically: speed, mobility, and close-range firefights, with strong melee capability as a last-ditch trick to pull out of our back pocket if need be. I expect that we will see more units with strong shooting in the 2'' to 6'' range and more support vehicles that - like the Baal Predator - operate well in a similar range. We won't be the air-dropping close combat marines, we'll be the in-your-face shooting marines... which, of course, will include air dropping and close combat among our tactics, but they won't be our only tactics anymore.

[Midnightmare]

It is such a shooth edition now and everybody else seems to get it for so cheap! I am always outnumbered and usually out gunned....

 

I think what people are aggrieved about is that back in the 5th jump marines with a priest used to beat face on most troops on the charge due to FC being much better. They have taken the biggest hit in the turn of the 6th (closely followed by our other staple - Razorspam RAS) unfortunately the're won't be many saving graces with the new codex imho, power armour troops suck when compared with cheap numerous xeno/guard and Assault Marines are no different - I can't see their particular cost coming sown too much especially as they are scoring.That is not to say don't take them (I always have at least one squad) but you need the heavy lifting from elsewhere in your list.

 

Assault isn't dead in the 6th, but when you do it you have to do it well and RAW just don't. Unfortunately they are relegated to mobile troops who can mop up. Now Death Company on the other hand...just give me them cheap jump packs *shakes fist at the sky*

[Cronhour]

We don't have to Deep Strike just because we can.We can take RAS squads as troops, outfit them with better special weaponry, and scatter 1d6" instead of 2d6.Those are already huge, huge differences and advantages over C:SM RAS. Just because Deep Striking isn't always the right thing to do doesn't mean we need to pile on even more special rules.

I like Doa as a rule for Ras but I do expect to loose people when I use it which is why I almost always end up combat squading them, half as an anti tank unit half as a deck chair unit to drop on an objective. A nice balance I think would be to give Ras a battle focus(I think that's what the space twinks call it) type move when arriving from Ds with jump packs. Either you can shoot then run or run then shoot the turn they arrive. As of right now if you ds and choose to shoot your signing their death warrant versus templates like bale flamers and riptide plasma.

Useful, seems fluffy, but not to op as they're still Ras so they're not a massive threat for their points value.

 

Also Baals should get torrent on the flame storm as you're effectively sacrificing them with the preds weak armour if you get close enough to use it.

[Cronhour]

It is such a shooth edition now and everybody else seems to get it for so cheap! I am always outnumbered and usually out gunned....

I think what people are aggrieved about is that back in the 5th jump marines with a priest used to beat face on most troops on the charge due to FC being much better. They have taken the biggest hit in the turn of the 6th (closely followed by our other staple - Razorspam RAS) unfortunately the're won't be many saving graces with the new codex imho, power armour troops suck when compared with cheap numerous xeno/guard and Assault Marines are no different - I can't see their particular cost coming sown too much especially as they are scoring.That is not to say don't take them (I always have at least one squad) but you need the heavy lifting from elsewhere in your list.

Assault isn't dead in the 6th, but when you do it you have to do it well and RAW just don't. Unfortunately they are relegated to mobile troops who can mop up. Now Death Company on the other hand...just give me them cheap jump packs *shakes fist at the sky*

With you on the jp's for the DC. Though we are terrible at one of the things we're supposed to be good at, I think that it could be fixed with a few simple tweaks, we don't need a magic bullet. Counter attack for all our troops (except maybe the DC) we are supposed one of the more skilful and fearsome practitioners of close quarter combat amongst the chapters. Extra cc weapon for tac squads like CSM for the same reason. That alongside some recosting would help balance us out.

My dream rebalance would be to merge assault and tac squads in the codex. Have one entry for marine squads that can be outfitted with all the options mixed, 10 man squad with bolters a flamer and a multi melta and jump packs, a 10 man rhino squad with 2 meltas and a gunslinging inferno pistol toting sarge and 7 bolters, or a 5 man jump pack unit with a heavy flamer and chainswords. It could make for some really interesting tactical options that distinguish us from other chapters.

[Midnightmare]

Bolters on Assault Marines! What would every Astartes spiritual liege Robot Girlyman have to say about that?!?! ;) Would be pretty cool though, I would like the extra close combat weapon on Tac's though mainly.

 

As for DC jump packs - nothing would please me more than cheaper JP as they are my fave unit but I rarely run them in that configuration due to cost, which was steep in the 5th but criminal in the 6th the. FC/FNP changes.

 

Something else I have thought on is Seth could do with decent AP, I would settle for 3 ;) and hopefully a nice AP2 relic in the codex as we lack any at initiative.

[Plague Angel]

In 5th I ran foot DC with power weapons. Not every model, but you know, a few. In 6th, a jump pack comes out to about the same price point, so I've switched to jump DC with bolters and no other upgrades. The price winds up being the same, but the role is very different, and Relentless double-tapping with a Rage charge and full Rapid Fire overwatch -- well, like you said, Assault Marines with bolters are fun, and DC bonuses on top of that keeps it worthwhile.

 

It's been an adjustment, and price-changes would be nice, but I think jump DC are in a good place, comparatively. My meta's fairly casual though.

[Xwingt65]

Not alot will change with the new codex. Some points changes to get it in line with the vanilla dex, relics, warlord table and such stuff.

 

Models will be:

 

New assault squad.

Clampack blood angels captain with jump pack

 

My guess is that it will be releases in the same month as the space puppy dex. That will be the same housekeeping changes as the BA one, gain access to the new AA tank and not much else.

 

Models for that will be

 

New devastator squad

New dreadnought/bjorn box

Clampack wolf priest

Clampack wolf lord/ragnar blackmane

[thebymster]

Whispers said released with New Ork dex, BA/Ork starter set and 7th Ed!

Pure speculation!!

Wouldn't that indicate a MASSIVE backlash to cc!?!

[Midnightmare]

One can dream...

 

I can't help myself, I am building a Black Legion army in the side and that is turning out close combat oriented too. What can I say? I just like punching stuff!

[ElectricPaladin]

Whispers said released with New Ork dex, BA/Ork starter set and 7th Ed!

Pure speculation!!

Wouldn't that indicate a MASSIVE backlash to cc!?!

 

Not necessarily. The Ork army can be a shooting army, too, in much the same way as the 'Nids and the Guard.

[thebymster]

 

 

Whispers said released with New Ork dex, BA/Ork starter set and 7th Ed!

Pure speculation!!

Wouldn't that indicate a MASSIVE backlash to cc!?!

Not necessarily. The Ork army can be a shooting army, too, in much the same way as the 'Nids and the Guard.

Soz, yeah- just getting carried away!

 

Shock attack gun: one of my fave weapons in the entire game!

[Plague Angel]

As I continue going over the vanilla dex (which doesn't feel very vanilla anymore, I have to admit) I keep finding myself wondering whether I want a Codex: Blood Angels that's devoted to the Blood Angels totally and reflecting all of their distinctive mindset, or a more broad Sanguinian list with "Chapter Tactics" type rules for the Flesh Tearers, Blood Drinkers, Lamenters, and so on.

[ElectricPaladin]

As I continue going over the vanilla dex (which doesn't feel very vanilla anymore, I have to admit) I keep finding myself wondering whether I want a Codex: Blood Angels that's devoted to the Blood Angels totally and reflecting all of their distinctive mindset, or a more broad Sanguinian list with "Chapter Tactics" type rules for the Flesh Tearers, Blood Drinkers, Lamenters, and so on.

 

I would like both. I want Codex: Blood Angels, but I'd love to have at least a little support for the successors. Maybe not full on "Chapter Tactics" for every successor chapter - let's get real, GW has already established that in almost all cases, successors have the same Chapter Tactics-style special rules as their parent chapters - but at least... I dunno, some cool generic relics and the rules to customize and field a "Chapter Master" who isn't Dante? Maybe some special rules for a few of the more popular or more radically different successors?

[Plague Angel]

 

 

the rules to customize and field a "Chapter Master" who isn't Dante?

 

YES please.

 

After falling in love with Death of Integrity, I want to field Caedis but I feel like I need Codex: Space Marines to do it properly.

[ElectricPaladin]

 

 

the rules to customize and field a "Chapter Master" who isn't Dante?

 

YES please.

 

After falling in love with Death of Integrity, I want to field Caedis but I feel like I need Codex: Space Marines to do it properly.

 

I've played Knights of Blood ever since getting bored with "red marines," and I'm in a similar boat.

[sockwithaticket]

Broad Sons of Sanguinius would be awesome, unfortunately I doubt it will happen. The generic Chapter Master is an excellent call, I can't see the Charnel Guard (my new favourite successors, if only for the chapter symbol in IA 2 2nd ed.), Lamenters, Angels Encarmine etc. all being led by guys who are such Dante fangirls that they copy every aspect of his equipment.

A couple of pages devoted to some unique rules, relics and perhaps force organisation changes would be cool and help add some flavour. So Flesh Tearers have greater access to Death Company (0-2 ?) with restrictions on the quantities of armour they can take. Blood Drinkers units gain rage or something if they wipe out an enemy unit in close combat, but have to pass a leadership test or else they spend next turn sitting there drinking their fill (just the first ideas that came to mind, not particularly thought through).

[The Yncarne]

I fear anything other than what is in the current codex will be either data slates or some other pay-for-unit-rules downloadable content.

[Blindhamster]

if we get additional background added to either the Blood Angels or Successors via supplements and/or data slates, I'm actually fine with that, ultimately I'd just like more!

 

I agree with others that having a generic chapter master option makes a lot of sense.

 

I don't think giving successors (except maybe Flesh Tearers) is very likely, GWs stance is definitely that successors usually follow their parent chapter, and lets face it Black Templars only got unique rules because they already had a codex. I could see Forgeworld giving Lamenters an updated set of rules depending on what happens with the Blood Angels though (as Lamenters seem to be represented by Forgeworld now anyway)