++ The Murderers' Call - A Night Lords Community ++

[Kol Saresk]

As long as it isn't worse than Balthamal's, you should be good on lore. :D

 

Note: Just a fun prod to the ribs.

[MrBear]

Welcome brother! The more the merri... eh... bloodier! Of course it's bloodier! 

[Haakon Norsal]

Welcome brother.  We must gather our brothers and sisters from across the segmetum.  The fleet must be called together so that we may redden our claws and fill the skinning pits. 

[Augustus b'Raass]

Welcome Tarvick! Glad to see you're donning the night!

[Noctem Cultor]

Just read Value of Fear, I think we did better in the Trade off.

Unless this is extended upon with Nuon becoming a character who helps change how the RG fight. I find the book pointless as characters very dull and the final sentence uttered by our 'loyal' brother was just cringy.

[Noctem Cultor]

Sorry for the double post but on a new subject.

 

2015 Rumors are pointing at Harlequins and Deathwatch models/codexs. Also plague Marines getting the Finecast to Plastic treatment...

 

So will this be the year we see Legion upgrade packs become Legion Codexes and Box sets?

 

Id love to see us get a Sub/full Codex with a named Hero model clampack and a troop box set with other unit upgrade bits. Fingers crossed.

[Flint13]

Just read Value of Fear, I think we did better in the Trade off.

Unless this is extended upon with Nuon becoming a character who helps change how the RG fight. I find the book pointless as characters very dull and the final sentence uttered by our 'loyal' brother was just cringy.

 

Yeah... can we discuss this? 

 

I just re-read VoF for the 3rd time, trying to make sure I didn't miss anything, but the ideas Gav seems to be attempting to get across still aren't gelling for me. 

 

So, in essence, Nuon is explaining how to get a foe to capitulate via fear and intimidation (good so far!)

 

Ashel posits that this is merely a power game on the Night Lord's part, and that it is not necessary to incite fear (and power/domination) as long as the job gets done effectively.

 

Nuon returns that there can be no more effective victory that one that doesn't have to be fought at all, because your foes have already surrendered because they are terrified of the consequences of what fighting would entail. (still good)

 

But the following lines confuse me still, in reference to the Ravenguard's question of his intention to slaughter those who surrendered, driving the remaining resistance to fight even harder:

‘Not if they do not find out,’ replied Nuon. ‘I would not suggest parading the fact to the survivors. In fact, treat them well and have them say as much for a few days. Dread works best in contrast to hope. Torture a few others, have them scream their confessions of resistance across the vox. They will make a compelling argument. And when the enemy capitulate, slaughter them to avoid any risk of further disobedience.’

 

It seems to imply some odd barrier to communication that the "survivors" would experience... If you tortured and killed members of the resistance via-vox broad cast (which is a very Night Lordy thing to do) why would you worry about who received them? If your entire reason for doing so is to terrify any potential resistance into early surrendering, why would slaughtering one group of those who surrendered effect the remaining enemies any differently than an(to my knowledge) otherwise identical group of foes? 

 

I'm still confused, and re-reading it again doesn't make it any better 

 

I want to like it, since legionary exchange programs are awesome, but this is bugging me. 

[Knight of the Raven]

"For the evulz!" doesn't embarrass itself with dirty, filthy logic.

[Flint13]

Hey, totally not our fault that Gav decided to dip his toes into Midnight Clad.

 

Feel free to keep him over there on your side, writing Deliverance Lost 2: Delivered Harder :D

[Noctem Cultor]

I haven't followed what the Raven Guard got up to during the HH, but the only thing I can think of is that this is part of a twelve step program to make the remaining RG force into a better stronger army. The out come is mutated freaks so I guess the see if Fear Tactics works was a no. So we might see another story showing him fall out of favour.

 

But I still don't see the point in the novel, at least the Raven in Sevatars circle has character and is described of belonging.

[Conn Eremon]

Hey, totally not our fault that Gav decided to dip his toes into Midnight Clad.

 

Feel free to keep him over there on your side, writing Deliverance Lost 2: Delivered Harder :D

No givesies backsies!

 

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

Just read Value of Fear, I think we did better in the Trade off.

Unless this is extended upon with Nuon becoming a character who helps change how the RG fight. I find the book pointless as characters very dull and the final sentence uttered by our 'loyal' brother was just cringy.

Yeah... can we discuss this?

 

I just re-read VoF for the 3rd time, trying to make sure I didn't miss anything, but the ideas Gav seems to be attempting to get across still aren't gelling for me.

 

So, in essence, Nuon is explaining how to get a foe to capitulate via fear and intimidation (good so far!)

 

Ashel posits that this is merely a power game on the Night Lord's part, and that it is not necessary to incite fear (and power/domination) as long as the job gets done effectively.

 

Nuon returns that there can be no more effective victory that one that doesn't have to be fought at all, because your foes have already surrendered because they are terrified of the consequences of what fighting would entail. (still good)

 

But the following lines confuse me still, in reference to the Ravenguard's question of his intention to slaughter those who surrendered, driving the remaining resistance to fight even harder:

‘Not if they do not find out,’ replied Nuon. ‘I would not suggest parading the fact to the survivors. In fact, treat them well and have them say as much for a few days. Dread works best in contrast to hope. Torture a few others, have them scream their confessions of resistance across the vox. They will make a compelling argument. And when the enemy capitulate, slaughter them to avoid any risk of further disobedience.’

 

It seems to imply some odd barrier to communication that the "survivors" would experience... If you tortured and killed members of the resistance via-vox broad cast (which is a very Night Lordy thing to do) why would you worry about who received them? If your entire reason for doing so is to terrify any potential resistance into early surrendering, why would slaughtering one group of those who surrendered effect the remaining enemies any differently than an(to my knowledge) otherwise identical group of foes?

 

I'm still confused, and re-reading it again doesn't make it any better

 

I want to like it, since legionary exchange programs are awesome, but this is bugging me.

Yeah, pretty much sums up my thoughts. Going by the summary on the BL website, the intent was that Corax decided to mix some of the Night Lirds(I'm assuming) less brutal fear tactics into his doctrine. But the story takes the stance that the Night Lird is supposed to be learning the Raven Giard's tactics and becoming indoctrinated into the XIX, a reverse of the Raven from Prince of Crows.

 

And then the rest is a you described. So honestly, I'm not even sure what it is anyone finds attractive about the story. It's just an overall pile of "meh".

 

The only thing I can think of is the fanservice with Corax somehow managing to scare the Astartes who comes from the Legion with a Primarch who sleeps with corpses hanging above his head. And that's when he isn't talking to them. But killing three guys is super scary. Because flaying knives.

 

EDIT: In regards to that scene, one idea that popped up is that Thorpe was saying "Take some prisoners. Split them into two groups. One group, treat perfectly well. And have them talk to the people still fighting and have them say as much.

 

"But then take the other group. And torture them so they scream across the vox net. Tell those resisting that if they surrender, they will be treated well. But if they continue to resist, only pain awaits them."

 

Of course, if that's the case then we have a situation similar to that part in Deliverance Lost where the Emperor tells Corax about his deep depression regarding the Lost Primarchsthe two brothers who have not been found yet and while he can't say who they are, he says he will talk about it another time because it is just so depressing.

 

Which goes back to Gav Thorpe having difficulty carrying his meaning across in the words he writes.

 

Honestly, it would just help if we had the first part of the conversation where Nuon tells Ashel he would kill the prisoners.

[Knight of the Raven]

He still is a better writer than I am, because he can actually write multi-chaptered stories, by which I mean actually think past the first chapter and complete the whole story, haha.

 

Yeah, pretty much sums up my thoughts. Going by the summary on the BL website, the intent was that Corax decided to mix some of the Night Lirds(I'm assuming) less brutal fear tactics into his doctrine.

Cue "I want to be like the Night Haunter when I grow up!" and "Are you sure? Not even I want to be the Night Haunter."

[Flint13]

I want to be the Night Haunter when I grow up... 

 

Well kinda. Konrad is a pretty badass name, but most likely not too lady-like... not that mine is anyway :D

 

@ Kol - Pile of "meh" does sum it up pretty well. I didn't even think of the fan service angle before you mentioned it. 

 

It just makes that last line from Nuon so much more cringe-worthy... Oh well, they can't all be winners.

 

@ Everyone - Hey guys. Remember that time I said I totally have a 8th legion chaplain based on FW Abbadon, I just have to get off my tiny (not quite so lazy) ass and finish it?

 

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/913/nZoDmY.jpg 

[helterskelter]

It might be beacuse i'm watching luxury comedy and it's totally warped what was left of my mind, but the more i see him i ask myself "is this what a Night Lord would look like if he did baywatch?" then the theme starts to play. In the style of dethklok. With added screams and thunderstorms.

[Soldier of Dorn]

I must have that Terminator...

[Augustus b'Raass]

Sorry for the double post but on a new subject.

 

2015 Rumors are pointing at Harlequins and Deathwatch models/codexs. Also plague Marines getting the Finecast to Plastic treatment...

 

So will this be the year we see Legion upgrade packs become Legion Codexes and Box sets?

 

Id love to see us get a Sub/full Codex with a named Hero model clampack and a troop box set with other unit upgrade bits. Fingers crossed.

That would be awesome, although rumours of a new CsM box coming out have been floating around the webs since January. But still, new plastic Plague Marines in the style of the new WFB nurgle guys would be most welcome. I'd also welcome a new Berzerker kit, as the current one is almost fifteen years old (still, you gotta love the excitement resonating from the WD article when they came out). But most of all, Legion Codices. Yes.

[Kol Saresk]

I'm iffy on Legion Codices. One of the things I like about the Legions is the fact that they are concepts and that you have the freedom to tailor those concepts to your tastes.

 

For example, Heinrich's armored company. Flint's tribal warriors. A D-B's luckless renegades. Guy Haley's dark aristocracy.

 

And on and on and on and on and on.

 

But too often when something with a Legion name gets printed, a certainly mentality of it "having to be done a certain way" follows. For example when I first joined BnC, back in fifth edition, I was told I had to have Raptors if I wanted a Night Lords list because of an option from third edition. After A D-B's series hit shelves, there was a community belief that Night Lord warbands had to have low resources and should be restricted to follow suit on the tabletop. After Massacre, there was the opinion that Night Lords had to use the Terror Assault RoW.

 

So honestly, the idea of a Legion Codex makes me apprehensive. Because it will have to be a view that is narrow in scope. It can't properly be done if it isn't. But there is a habit of the community at large following suit and then saying anything outside that scope is wrong, or isn't truly Night Lords. Not forever, but long enough to be annoying. And I'd rather not have to deal with that kind of willful stupidity.

[Augustus b'Raass]

I'm iffy on Legion Codices. One of the things I like about the Legions is the fact that they are concepts and that you have the freedom to tailor those concepts to your tastes.

 

For example, Heinrich's armored company. Flint's tribal warriors. A D-B's luckless renegades. Guy Haley's dark aristocracy.

 

And on and on and on and on and on.

 

But too often when something with a Legion name gets printed, a certainly mentality of it "having to be done a certain way" follows. For example when I first joined BnC, back in fifth edition, I was told I had to have Raptors if I wanted a Night Lords list because of an option from third edition. After A D-B's series hit shelves, there was a community belief that Night Lord warbands had to have low resources and should be restricted to follow suit on the tabletop. After Massacre, there was the opinion that Night Lords had to use the Terror Assault RoW.

 

So honestly, the idea of a Legion Codex makes me apprehensive. Because it will have to be a view that is narrow in scope. It can't properly be done if it isn't. But there is a habit of the community at large following suit and then saying anything outside that scope is wrong, or isn't truly Night Lords. Not forever, but long enough to be annoying. And I'd rather not have to deal with that kind of willful stupidity.

I get what you're saying, but honestly I think differently. I'd love the Legion codices because they'd give options to my night lords fluff. I really do not care what others think of the contents of my army (I do however appreciate feedback on what I build and paint though :tu:) because it is mine. If others don't agree, the worst they can do to me is not include my army or characters into their fluff. Besides, haters gonna hate anyway. But to be honest I haven't experienced what you're talking about here on BnC. In my experience it is the most open-minded, constructive and positive fora on the web. But even if people would critisize me on my units, I really wouldn't care. I love to include models into my army, and in my mind no amount of 'this is how this army should be' esprit de corps will survive 10,000 years of war unscathed. So my Night Lords have maulerfiends (traditional Iron Warrior unit), a titan and a handful of Contemptors (low resources?), a Daemon Prince, Plague Marines and heldrakes (yes, the warp corrupts even the most stalwart of astartes), Noise Marines (blasting the foe with recorded screams of terror), Thousand Sons and World Eaters allied detachments, tons of heavy support and vehicles (they're fricking cool!), and cultists. And I love 'm all! :tu: :d

[Kol Saresk]

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be against a Codex. I'm just against the sheer ignorance and stupidity that seems to plague every Chaos release.

[Noctem Cultor]

@Tarvick

Those are some nice sketches, any idea on how your going to paint on the runes? (I tried to mimic etched into armour but haven't got it right)

 

@b'rass and Kol

I agree to a point with both of you. Personally I might stick to using my 30k list even if a Legion codex was announced it depends on the content for me.

I've seen many players who stick to this is what the latest codex says and many who throw the rulebook out and say this is how my warband fights.

 

One great thing about are Legion is its all over the place. You have some depleted warbands like Talos Warband, you have some chaos inspired that are large like Kriegs warband and even specialists like Raptor cults. But I would hope that the player makes the call on what's right as I don't question when I see Blood Angels using Khorne lists I say pah die loyalist scum!

[Flint13]

I must have that Terminator...

Haha, he's pretty simple, truth be told. Really just a Zhufor head on Abbadon's body. Scrape a few of those goofy Eyes of Horus off, and you're good to go!

 

I'm glad he was pretty popular, especially in my little ploggy. I forget that folks apparently like it when I actually do Night Lords stuff :D

 

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be against a Codex. I'm just against the sheer ignorance and stupidity that seems to plague every Chaos release.

Yeah... I feel you here, and I think I know what you mean. But like Augustus said, haters gonna hate.

 

I think stuff like this is less a problem of the codexs "forcing" people to play a certain way, and more a mindset of a certain group of people who have an idea of how it "should" be done. I suppose it's similar to seeing a movie of your favorite book, and having your favs character look *completely* different from how you pictured them (looking at you, Percy Jackson...). 

 

It's like a rigid inflexibility in imagination and acceptance of other's ideas on a topic you both enjoy and have common ground in. I dunno if I'm just getting more accepting in my advanced age (or too lazy to work myself up as much) but I've found being super inflexible on much of anything really inhibits my potential enjoyment of it. If someone you're playing with or chatting with on a forum has such a strong view on how an army "should" be played that they feel it necessary to correct you on your "incorrect" use of it, I'd be more concerned on how high their blood pressure must be if this is something that is bothering them so intensely. 

 

So yeah, TLDR, relax, enjoy (mini)life and leave those too inflexible to enjoy themselves to their own devices. 

 

S'totally how I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb new Dark Eldar codex. 

[RolandTHTG]

Awesome model once again Flint.
I'm also interested in where Tarvick is going with his guys. Is that a Death Guard Termi converted to Nightlords that you sketched? 
 

 

 

 

‘Not if they do not find out,’ replied Nuon. ‘I would not suggest parading the fact to the survivors. In fact, treat them well and have them say as much for a few days. Dread works best in contrast to hope. Torture a few others, have them scream their confessions of resistance across the vox. They will make a compelling argument. And when the enemy capitulate, slaughter them to avoid any risk of further disobedience.’

While I admit I haven't read the story, but might this be what Nuon was proposing?

1) Treat most of the survivors/early surrenders well. Let them make phone calls to their buddies about the nice treatment. 

2) Torture a couple guys that you think will backslide or captured on active missions. Broadcast these as promises of what would happen if they resist. 

3) Make the last hold-outs think that you will treat any surrenders well. 

4) When the last resisting groups surrender, Slaughter all who ever resisted you, early surrender or late surrender. Then let all know that ANY resistance will be met with total destruction. There's no get out of danger, fire a few shots then surrender early card.

 

I think he's arguing that once you have completed the conquest, leave behind no one that could backslide and start up resistance once again.  You either greet them by swearing allegiance, or you die. 

[Augustus b'Raass]

Hear hear to Kol Saresk, Noctem Cultor and Flint. Especially why why whyyyyyy are Chaos versions of Imperial vehicles ALWAYS worse (except for the Fire Raptor) and whyyyyyyyyy can't Chaos have normal drop pods? 

[Flint13]

Hear hear to Kol Saresk, Noctem Cultor and Flint. Especially why why whyyyyyy are Chaos versions of Imperial vehicles ALWAYS worse (except for the Fire Raptor) and whyyyyyyyyy can't Chaos have normal drop pods? 

 

You're an A D-B fan just like most of us... have you never read "Dude, Where's my Land Speeder?"

 

He totally explains it.

 

Spoilered for language maybe?

 

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Dude,_Where%27s_my_Land_Speeder%3F