++ AUGUSTUS b'RAASS ++ pre-heresy BRASS SCORPION p.247

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Trying to capture a Chaos Warlord at the very moment of his Ascension to the rank of Daemon Prince?

 

The model you made is certainly intimidating, but the fact it has no legs made me think of it as a Chaos spawn instead- it seemed the would-be Daemon Prince didn't retain sufficient control over his powers to dictate what form his body would take upon his Ascension.

 

I must commend your efforts, nonetheless. As I said, your model looks INTIMIDATING.

[ElDuderino]

That rock idea is pretty damn clever! I wonder... instant trim moulds?

 

I like the new additions, however I feel like it's lacking some marine aesthetics, ATM it's just the shoulder pads that points to it having been a marine. Can't think of any ideas though except for replacing the wings with the backpack prong-things from the demon prince... which is a major change from your concept of course, just brainstorming a bit:)

[hushrong]

Bjorn, he got impatient with his ascension so he just ripped off his mortal legs before they could change to get a move on

 

I would like to argue that I think daemon princes do not all need to be symmetrical, bipedal hulks but that their ascended form could also be a reflection of their soul. This marine's wretched existence has led him to become a malformed, ghoulish entity. Maybe this is how he saw himself after turning against the emperor and being besieged by the poxes of Nurgle. His own ghastly image reminding him of one the stitched-together amalgamations of undead flesh that haunted his homeworld and now he echoes that.

 

Perhaps he suffered terrible injuries and his lower half was bionics that he wished to part with when ascending.

 

Heck, he could be a bit off so to speak. I mean, look at Daemon Primarch Fulgrim compared to his brothers.

 

Of course the warp does work in mysterious ways.

[Augustus b'Raass]

Cheers, guys!

 

@ KrautScientist: I couldn't help it!! I just kept going. Actually, your feedback is much appreciated - even at this stage, where the general shape is left. There's tons of ideas in my head still, but I'm not sharing because I want fresh ideas - and you always provide. So please don't be discouraged because of my impatience. I'd like to hear what you have to say regardless of the wings. Also, the wings aren't attached yet. Actually, I should make a pic of the metal wings. Also, I can't work on it until tomorrow, so feedback: GO! :D

 

@ Mechanist: Nah, third party bits are a bit of a nono, as I want to be able to take this thing to tournaments. I'm not sure about feather wings anyway.... sorry 

 

@ guardian31: ?? KrautScientist didn't write anything about a cowl or hood! Even still: cool idea, although I'm also a fan of the hair, and I'm guessing that would get in the way of the sculpt. This needs some pondering. 

 

@ hushrong: Hurray! Although Nurgle is displeased ;) Ah, buddy, that's super nice, but really I think the stone press idea I have going will do some wonders. 

 

@ Bjorn Firewalker: haha that's actually a cool thought! Perhaps it is. And spawn, daemon prince: tomaytoe tomahtoe. ;)

 

@ ElDuderino: Instant trim molds would be a godsend. Marine aesthetics will come - no worries. Lots of cabling coming from his arms into his chest, Campaign Pips on his forehead, maybe even the left-overs of a backpack!

 

@ hushrong: These:

Maybe this is how he saw himself after turning against the emperor and being besieged by the poxes of Nurgle. His own ghastly image reminding him of one the stitched-together amalgamations of undead flesh that haunted his homeworld and now he echoes that.

 

Perhaps he suffered terrible injuries and his lower half was bionics that he wished to part with when ascending.

are extremely cool thoughts. I like them!!

 

Keep 'm coming!

[KrautScientist]

Cheers, guys!

 

@ guardian31: ?? KrautScientist didn't write anything about a cowl or hood! (...)

 

Actually, yes I did

 

Hmm, interesting concept for a Daemon Prince! I am not a huge fan of the stock model, to be honest, but I am still confident that you'll knock it out of the park!

 

A couple of thoughts:

 

• from the two sets of wings you posted, I'd go with the plastic wings (as the nightmare wings haven't really aged all that well, if you ask me). However, the other guys are right in that the wings are a bit small -- off the top of my head, how about the Manticore wings from the WGB/AoS Manticore?
• I do think you should give him some kind of tattered cowl.
• regarding the question of adding that ruin and/or having all kinds of organic stuff emerging from his lower torso, I just want to point out that the model's lack of a lower body is very much its main gimmick, and it heavily influences its general look and feel as well as its silhouette. I would therefore be wary of doing anything that would change that element too much -- you could do that, of course, but then why go for this base model in the first place? Plus I'd wager it would draw even more attention to the model's already very weird proportions.
• I think the blob of poster tac you have used for the wing mock-up suggests that some kind of hunchback would work really well on the model -- and make it look suitably different from the stock creature without messing with the overall design.

Anyway, hope this helps!

Edited July 30, 2018 by KrautScientist

[Gederas]

If you're dead set on wings, maybe see if you can source some Hive Tyrant wings? They're suitably large enough, and with only some minor modifications can look suitably Nurgly.

[Augustus b'Raass]

Gak! I completely missed that somehow. Wow that never happened. I must've been really into the flow. 

 

Anyway, that's great feedback. I did quick snap made pictures of the DP with metal wings mocked up:
 

 

 

Now, to go through the excellent points Kraut made:
 

 

• from the two sets of wings you posted, I'd go with the plastic wings (as the nightmare wings haven't really aged all that well, if you ask me). However, the other guys are right in that the wings are a bit small -- off the top of my head, how about the Manticore wings from the WGB/AoS Manticore?

Cheers - I agree they're quite small, but he's also floating? I don't know. I hear what you're saying about the Manticore wings you gave me, but dude - they're reserved for a Khornate DP I have planned - one that will blow your mind (remember the Blood Throne you gave me? Think Motorcycle)

• I do think you should give him some kind of tattered cowl.

That is a cool idea - though I doubt I'll get to keep the cool hairs on the stock Mourngul if I chose to do so...

• regarding the question of adding that ruin and/or having all kinds of organic stuff emerging from his lower torso, I just want to point out that the model's lack of a lower body is very much its main gimmick, and it heavily influences its general look and feel as well as its silhouette. I would therefore be wary of doing anything that would change that element too much -- you could do that, of course, but then why go for this base model in the first place? Plus I'd wager it would draw even more attention to the model's already very weird proportions.

I'm interested in your thoughts on what I did with the pewter cabling jutting out from his torn body.

• I think the blob of poster tac you have used for the wing mock-up suggests that some kind of hunchback would work really well on the model -- and make it look suitably different from the stock creature without messing with the overall design.

That's really a cool idea, which I can maybe combine with ElDuderino's idea of (the remains of) a backpack!

 

Cheers!
 

Reply:

 

@ Gederas: Ah those are some cool wings, though I'm going for the ones I have posted. I don't want him to get too big.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Augustus b'Raass

[KrautScientist]

Hmm, the metal wings don't really do much for me -- I think the plastic wings just work better with the general look of the model. I also think Bjorn Firewalker has a point regarding how the model could use something that points towards its former life as an Astartes -- maybe the remains of a breastplate? You could also add some ports to the arms and torso where the power armour used to connect. And maybe some service studs and implants on his forehead as as well?

 

I also stand by the cowl -- it would be possible to have both a cowl and have some of the hair emerge from it. If anything, I'd say a cowl points towards a former mortal life somehow, and also ties him into a more general Death Guard look.

 

Another option would be to feature the suggestion of discarded armour on his base, almost like a shell that the daemonic creature burst out of at the moment of ascension.

 

Oh, and how about some disgusting texture on his arms? Some fly-like bristles, for example ;)

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

You already made up your mind and were working on it while asking for input?

 

[Augustus b'Raass]

Hmm, the metal wings don't really do much for me -- I think the plastic wings just work better with the general look of the model. I also think Bjorn Firewalker has a point regarding how the model could use something that points towards its former life as an Astartes -- maybe the remains of a breastplate? You could also add some ports to the arms and torso where the power armour used to connect. And maybe some service studs and implants on his forehead as as well?

 

I also stand by the cowl -- it would be possible to have both a cowl and have some of the hair emerge from it. If anything, I'd say a cowl points towards a former mortal life somehow, and also ties him into a more general Death Guard look.

 

Another option would be to feature the suggestion of discarded armour on his base, almost like a shell that the daemonic creature burst out of at the moment of ascension.

 

Oh, and how about some disgusting texture on his arms? Some fly-like bristles, for example

That's great! I mentioned the ports and the campaign studs on his forehead in the comments above, but I guess I must've subconsciously hoarded those from your comment or something. I like the idea of discarded armour.  Maybe I can salvage some plastic DP torso parts - I think I still have one somewhere. Re: the cowl - I'll just see what I can do there. About the fly-like texture - how would you suggest doing that? 

 

 

You already made up your mind and were working on it while asking for input?

 

No, as I wrote - I asked for advice and just started building the rest. The wings are pinned, but not glued - as evidenced by the latest pictures with the metal wings on it. :p

Hidden Content

Really: all options are still open - although with the ton of feedback I got, I think if I have to chose between the two options presented, I'll go for the plastic wings. The only thing set is the genera pose and the structural strengthening by means of the ruin. That's all, really - so if you have any ideas - I'd love to hear them! Edited July 30, 2018 by Augustus b'Raass

[Gederas]

 

 

Hmm, the metal wings don't really do much for me -- I think the plastic wings just work better with the general look of the model. I also think Bjorn Firewalker has a point regarding how the model could use something that points towards its former life as an Astartes -- maybe the remains of a breastplate? You could also add some ports to the arms and torso where the power armour used to connect. And maybe some service studs and implants on his forehead as as well?

 

I also stand by the cowl -- it would be possible to have both a cowl and have some of the hair emerge from it. If anything, I'd say a cowl points towards a former mortal life somehow, and also ties him into a more general Death Guard look.

 

Another option would be to feature the suggestion of discarded armour on his base, almost like a shell that the daemonic creature burst out of at the moment of ascension.

 

Oh, and how about some disgusting texture on his arms? Some fly-like bristles, for example

That's great! I already thought of the ports and the campaign studs on his forehead. Maybe I can salvage some plastic DP torso parts. I like the idea of discarded armour. :tu: Re: the cowl - I'll just see what I can do there. About the fly-liketexture - how would you suggest doing that?

I have an idea about the fly-like bristles:

 

Why not get some thin plastic rods, heat them up and pull them apart to get the bristling? Kind of like how Morbäck did the dripping fluids on these Plague Drones.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

I posted an idea earlier. 

[KrautScientist]

 

Hmm, the metal wings don't really do much for me -- I think the plastic wings just work better with the general look of the model. I also think Bjorn Firewalker has a point regarding how the model could use something that points towards its former life as an Astartes -- maybe the remains of a breastplate? You could also add some ports to the arms and torso where the power armour used to connect. And maybe some service studs and implants on his forehead as as well?

 

I also stand by the cowl -- it would be possible to have both a cowl and have some of the hair emerge from it. If anything, I'd say a cowl points towards a former mortal life somehow, and also ties him into a more general Death Guard look.

 

Another option would be to feature the suggestion of discarded armour on his base, almost like a shell that the daemonic creature burst out of at the moment of ascension.

 

Oh, and how about some disgusting texture on his arms? Some fly-like bristles, for example

That's great! I mentioned the ports and the campaign studs on his forehead in the comments above, but I guess I must've subconsciously hoarded those from your comment or something. I like the idea of discarded armour.  Maybe I can salvage some plastic DP torso parts - I think I still have one somewhere. Re: the cowl - I'll just see what I can do there. About the fly-like texture - how would you suggest doing that? 

 

 

I think I would start by trying to match the look of the distressed skin areas you see on the pox walkers, with a mix of small pox and small holes. Using GS for the groundwork would make sense -- plus your microbeads could maybe do some of the heavy lifting? As for the bristles, have you considered using...*drum roll* actual bristles? Like, from a cheap brush? Just pluck some out of a cheap brush, push them into the GS as it dries, then maybe give them a coat of superglue/varnish later on to stabilise them? Static grass might also be worth a look, although I'd use the stuff sparingly.

[ElDuderino]

Well now i can't wait to see a khornate take on doomrider! With manticore wings! And bone dust-cocaine!

[hushrong]

Man, I think having armor would be cool but somewhat still attached to him and not discarded. Basically have a breastplate torn open, as if he pried it open himself, splayed over his upper torso. Maybe have one segment barely hanging on by cables or fibre-muscle bundle. Only issue is it would steal away the detail of the Mourngul' emaciated look.

 

Cowls are also cool. Batman has proven that. I'm really digging it now after seen the new AoS ghosts.

[DuskRaider]

If they're meant to be inoperable wings, I'd tatter them up quite a bit to show they're at this point vestigial... Which probably means metal wings won't work. Have you considered Varghast or Terrorgheist wings? Also, I'm not sure the pauldrons work considering he has no other hint of power armour on him. I love that base model, I've always wanted one to mess with.

[rednekkboss]

My two pennies:

 

I can see where the guys are going with armor remnants. If nothing else than to tie in the shoulder plates, which are just sort of hanging there.  There's always the thought of the armor growing into the body/as part of the body, especially at his level of corruption.

 

If he's a Nurgly deamon, I like what Kraut said about the distressed skin, pustules and I think the brush bristle/fly bristles is a great idea. It came to my mind before I read his comment.  I've got to say I like the tattered cloak idea too - but can also see your arguement. 

 

I can understand the wings comments. Zombie Dragon wings? Not sure. Those are a bit small. Maybe the more etheral (plastic) Morghast wings, but not so sure about the size there.   I've run into the same issue with my soon to be unveiled Doombull Deamon Prince. I have old metal Tzeentch wings.... and they just haven't aged well.  So, for now he's sitting on the side lines until I can figure out what to replace them with.

 

To me his lower section looks like a whole bunch of cables? That could definitely be tied into armor or "former Marine" stuff.  But in general, seeing this really makes me consider trying to get my mitts on one of those to convert myself.

[Gederas]

To me his lower section looks like a whole bunch of cables? That could definitely be tied into armor or "former Marine" stuff. But in general, seeing this really makes me consider trying to get my mitts on one of those to convert myself.

Speaking of this, where are those cables from? They look almost like guitar or bass string?

[Subtle Discord]

Positively a thing spawned from nightmares. Excellent.

 

Dare I suggest that you add a dead Marine on the base that is nothing but a withered husk wearing armour? A victim who's lifeforce was drained from their flesh from just beholding this grim visage. Or the other end of the spectrum and have them just turned into a pile of pox and goo with Nurglings crawling out of the remains.

 

The cables could easily be intermingled with intestines and strings of bile/puss/ichor, and I suspect you have plans to add other putrid flesh and tissue details, so I'm interested to see where this goes. Great start!

[Golf33]

I like the plastic wings and I don't think they are too small at all. He has bits missing from him and is quite tattered, so the plastic wings fit that aesthetic well. He's also wiry rather than bulky, so the smaller wings fit that aspect, and also play into the whole 'unnatural floating ethereal thing' vibe of the rest of the model. The metal wings are too small, too clean and don't quite fit the lines of the rest of the model; I think anything bigger than the plastic wings would explain too much and take away from the mystery.

[Eldrick Shadowblade]

Dude. Just. Wow.

 

That being said... I'm with KS on the Wings... I almost think you go tyranid Gargoyle small or Manticore.... what about the bloat fly wings?

I like the idea of a Cowl... almost like that cool cairn wraith they put out a few years ago...

For what it is worth... where's the chains? looks like it should be restrained during the ritual of accession!

Meme of the day: Chainmail makes everything cooler!

[DuskRaider]

By the way I wanted you to know that I just picked one of these up off of eBay for my side project I showed you via PM :D

[Pandoras Bitz Box]

Thanks for the compliment! Honestly, I'm just typing what I'm thinking, I dont really know another way to do it... in fact I get worried its actually irritating and everyone is just so nice they are being polite about it! Also you say your grateful I've been following the thread so closely (I mean why wouldn't I, its great), but I feel like I'm not following closely enough, every time I come back you've started a new cool project... speaking of which...

 

The Mournfang looks great. I really like this model and I had wondered if there was a way to use it myself but haven't cracked it yet. I really love the cables coming out of whats left of his body, I think it really adds some needed volume to the model. Awesome solve on supporting the model. Im not sure if how different the forgeworld resin is from finecast regarding heat/flexibility but I remember seeing a finecast C'tan Deceiver in the local GW that had collapsed under its weight because of the ambient temperature in the display case from the lights. With that wire and the added scenery piece for support I imagine your only you would have had is wobbly model sydrome, but with plastic wings I imagine that wont be as much of a problem either.

 

Very cool.

 

In fact... I might get myself a mournfang, I need some arms and Im sure I can find some cool uses for the other bits...

[Augustus b'Raass]

My apologies to both Krauty and BCK: Soon after I posted the first pictures of the DP and asked for feedback, I did some work on the base and actually glued the main body of the DP together, and posted some pics of that progress. While writing that second post, BCK was writing his first reply, and I missed it. I also missed K'Sci's post then, but that I cannot explain. 

 

Let me list the suggestions I got from you guys:

WINGS:

• Some say the wings are a bit too small. I tend not to agree - larger wings distract from the decrapid, ethereal nature of the miniautre. I will try the...
• manticore wings, though, see below.
• Tyranid wings are either too small for the Gargoyle wings or too big for the winged Hyve Tyranid wings..
• I'll try some wings I also got from KrautScientist in a bits drop from his visit last year.
• technological anti-grav system implanted into its back

ASTARTES ORIGIN

• Sculpt/salvage remnants of his breastplate
• Put remnants of breastplate on the base
• Put some plugs on his chest and back
• Campaign Studs on his forehead
• Cabling from his chest/side to his arms/under his pauldrons
• (remnants of) a backpack
• Armour growing into his flesh
• Put a dead space marine on base

Nurgle

• Give him a Hood/Cowl
• Nurglite Exhausts
• Hunchback
• Fly-like bristles
• Goo up the cables from his underside
• Have nurglings fester the base, possibly over a dead space marine
• chains

 

Other replies:

 

@ Brother Chaplain Kage: (LONG OVERDUE)

 

The wings are comically small. I dunno if you could even find some now, but Balrog wings might be sized more appropriately for this thing. Otherwise, what about some kind of technological anti-grav system implanted into its back? Maybe several tech-looking spines running down the middle of its back. 

Not sure about the smallness of the first plastic wings - compare them in the comparison pictures! Balrog wings are difficult to come by, unfortunately, plus they're SUPER big. I like the idea of a technological anti-grav system, but don't know how that would look other than a Jump Pack, which my other DP already features. Cheers!

 

@ Gederas: Hmmm, that sounds dangerous! I'll give it a go, but I don't have a lot of plastic rod, and wouldn't know how to use the results... any ideas?

 

@ KrautScientist: As luck would have it, I just threw away about ten old brushes! I'll dig them up and see what they'll yield

 

@ ElDuderino: Hahaha picture a doomrider three times the size, and ten times the rock'n'roll!

 

@ hushrong: I like the idea a lot, but am also very concerned to steal away the Mourngul's emaciated look. 

 

@ DuskRaider: I havent tried terrorgheist wings, but I don't have them... I also think they're far too big. 

 

@ rednekkboss: Armour growing into his flesh sounds cool. Zombie Dragon Wings too small? No. They're WAY too big. I have those, and I'm not even going to pin them in place to see how it looks. They're about as big each as the miniature itself! I definitely want to see your take on the Mourngul!

@ Gederas: The cables are pewter cables from Dragonforge

 

@ Subtle Discord: I have the astartes casualties - one of which has a skull for a face... cool idea!

 

@ Golf33: Winy Rather than Bulky is exactly the reason I chose those small wings. Thank you! 

 

@ Eldrick Shadowblade: Bloat Fly wings are super on the nose for a Nurgle Daemon Prince - I never think they work well as they give off an insectile vibe that I don't like for this miniature. Plus they're quite static and straight. I am looking to make this guy flow. The chains on the other hand - GREAT idea! 

 

@ DuskRaider: Whoop whoop! I'm looking forward to seeing it!

 

@ Pandoras Bitz Box: Not at all - I really like those lengthy comments. So please continue! It's MournGUL, but I'll forgive the confusion Resin is quite a bit harder than failcast. Also, finecast 2.0 is far less heat sensitive than the first batch - which was a disaster!

 

And now for the pictures. As suggested, I tried Manticore Wings:

 

 

I find them to be rather big - it off-balances the miniature a bit, in my mind. What's your thoughts on this?
 

Next, some third party decrepid Nurglite wings I received from KrautScientist:

 

Looks far better than I originally envisioned it. Not sure though.... thoughts?

 

And here's a comparison shot of all wing types:

 

As you see, I also did some work on his base - the stone stamps work wonderfully!

 

Cheers!

Edited July 31, 2018 by Augustus b'Raass

[DuskRaider]

I really like the Manticore wings. To get them to work you'll need to add a hunch to the creature's back. I'd do it asymmetrical to make him even more disturbing.